Bupe What the hell happened to me ? Suboxone IV

[RTrain]

Ok, i have to take issue with a few of these claims. 1. (from the wikipedia entry on mitragynine) Mitragynine itself acts primarily via μ-opioid receptors, though its oxidation product mitragynine pseudoindoxyl, acts as an even more potent and selective μ-opioid agonist with less affinity for δ or κ receptors.[2][3] Another alkaloid with a major contribution to the μ-opioid activity of the kratom plant is the related compound 7-hydroxymitragynine, which while present in the plant in much smaller quantities than mitragynine, is a much more potent μ-opioid agonist.[4] - so to say kratom works by "some crazy receptor group" is COMPLETELY false. Just because of the tryptamine structure, make NO mistake it is indeed a μ-opioid agonist. and 2. That you can only cause PW by taking suboxone AFTER a full agonist.
Feel me out here, OP reported injection a kindof INSANE ammount of bupe. The first bout of PW was quite likely from using it over the kratom, which as we have just learned is indeed an opiate agonist. He IV'd at LEAST 12mg of bupe with a tolerance where kratom is still useful. I'd wager there was quite a bit left in his system a few days later, just not enough to fully blockade the fentanyl effects. However, once the short half life of the fent moved it out, the suboxone would be coming back full force, effectively making it like "taking bupe AFTER an opiate agonist" just my .02 and wanted to clear up the misconception about kratom.

This does not sound like PW as far as I am concerned, I really sincerely doubt that is the issue here. For one, that day the OP had already IV'd multiple, large doses shots of Suboxone. If he was going to get PW's it would've happened on the first shot, not he 5th shot he took 12 hours or so after the 1st one. Also you don't get PW's from taking a full agonist with Subs already in your system and then the full agonist wearing off. I have done heroin a few hours after taking Subs and after the H wears off I am just right back where I was before the heroin. All that happens when you do that is some of the full agonist is blocked by the bupe, depending on how much is there. If there is bupe in your system its going to be on a receptor, it beats out almost any other chemical that acts on opiate receptors. If the full agonist had receptors to act on, after its gone those receptors are just empty, all the bupe is already committed to other receptors.

Even if it made sense that this was PW's from the events that transpired, just read what his symptoms were. Those don't sound like PWs, all PW happens to be is a real intense w/d. He would be shitting his brains out, having really bad kicks, pooring sweat, very nauseous and probably vomitting.

Now cotton fever makes more sense in terms of how he felt. Now cotton fever would have made plenty of sense when it happened the first time. But when it happened that second time it seems odd. Is there any incidences of someone feeling the effects of cotton fever return a few days later? Might be worth looking up. As I see it, though, considering the situation its worth noting the possibility of some other, more serious ramifications of IV drug use.

Wish we could get a follow up from the OP on how things have been going, hope hes doing ok and all.

 

[-Guido-]

The Suboxone formulation still has potential to produce an opioid agonist "high" if injected by non-dependent persons, which may provide some explanation to street reports indicating that the naloxone is an insufficient deterrent to injection of suboxone.

Bupe does have a higher binding affinity than Nalaxone, I mixed that up but shoot heroin for a few years and then IV Suboxone when your craving that needle and you will see what I mean. The purpose of the Nalaxone isn't really to deter bupe abuse because it isn't exactly recreational for serious opiate addicts and loses it's charm quite quick, but mainly for other opiates and opiods.

I don't buy into bullshit by doctors. I speak from experience and research. Most people that enjoy Suboxone never really had a proper habit to begin with.
Lastly, IV'ing pills and subligual strips is the dumbest thing you can possible do.

The multitude of irresponsible morons on his forum with junkie bro science and lack of harm reduction is staggering and rather annoying.

The guy went into precipitated withdrawal. Believe what you want but I'll stick to the science of pharmadynamics and human biology.

 

[Captain.Heroin]

You said you weren't doing it again when you posted ... and then you did it again "last night".

Sounds to me like some one really enjoyed it ....

 

[RTrain]

^no he didn't shoot the Subs again. He said that he had a weird "freak out" shortly shooting Subs on Friday night(but it was like the 5th time he shot them that day) but it went away, he then said he'd not shoot Subs again. On Sunday he said he shot some Adderall early in the day, then did some stuff while speeded up (cleaned room, video games). Then later Sunday he was taking Fentanyl patches buccally. He said he was real high and then the same that happened the night he was shooting the Subs happened again.

Damn I still would like this guy to reply, really bothers me when people don't get back to their posts. Granted I've probably been guilty before. It'd be nice to her the guy is doing well, too.

 

[Slum Survivor]

You can't IV Suboxone. There is a reason they put Nalaxone in it. It's to prevent IV abuse. You can only get away IVin'g straight Bupe.

When you take Suboxone orally, the Bupe gets absorbed while the Nalaxone really doesn't. When you IV it, the Nalaxone manages to make it's way you receptors 100% and has a much higher affinity to the receptors than the Bupe so you go into withdrawal. Whatver other opiates or oiods you have in your system the Nalaxone kicks them off the receptors.

It's the same reason why you go into withdrawal when your a heroin addict and then IV you Nalaxone (Narcan). I remember years ago when I fell out, as I came to as the paramedics were prepping a shot of Narcan. I tried to tell them to fuck off but they wouldn't listen and it felt like I was being dipped in liquid nitrogen and my heart rate went up, and skin got clammy. Luckily for me by the time I got to hospital it wore off and I was back in Noddingham Palace and well enough to sneak out.

whoa! its the other way around. bupe has the higher affinity. the bupe is what causes the PW's (usually)

u can IV suboxone all day. naloxone and all. no diff than subutex. and i know from exp.