Kratom What the fuck is happening to me? Kratom and gabapentin

[gabafucked]

I posted before a couple of months ago regarding my early morning anxiety and thought I had fixed things, but clearly not. I used to think with long term use of things as long as you continue to take whatever your vice is on a regular basis then you have nothing to worry about, as you're able to keep withdrawal at bay. Clearly I was wrong. I'm currently taking 6.3-6.5g of kratom 4x per day and gabapentin 1.8g staggered at 5-6 am and 1.2g staggered 12 hours later. I've been taking kratom for about 5 years and cut my gpd by 30-40% and gabapentin a couple of years. I cut my gabapentin from once daily dosing 3600mg once daily to my current regimen both about 2 months ago. My current predicament is when I wake up in the mornings I have this terrible anxiety and overwhelming "adrenaline/cortisol" type feeling whooshing through my body. Taking my kratom doesn't seem to help, as I fell asleep before taking my night time dose, and woke up at 2am with that feeling and taking kratom didn't alleviate it, maybe worsened or caused it I can't tell. for the most part once my morning gabapentin starts kicking in I start feeling better and can get through my day even work just fine. I get by but I'm definitely not thriving by any means. Im just really scared and the anxiety is not making this any better. I'm so scared that if I'm already feeling like this how will I continue to taper. I need off of these but I've been on them for so long, and I don't know how I will cope with the pain of tapering and then whatever hell of withdrawal awaits me with no comfort meds, as gabapentin and kratom are basically the most common ones that really do work.

 

[gabafucked]

I just can't believe I got myself into this predicament again. I started using different substances when I was younger due to curiosity and depression Ended up with an opioid addiction and my life fucking sucked, subs, blah blah typical story. I was able to somehow get away from all of that, and now my life should be in a good place. I have a good job and amazing partner, but they won't understand what's going on with me. They know I have used kratom our entire relationship and that I'm prescribed gabapentin, but they have no real history or knowledge of drugs. Honestly gabapentin and kratom seems so miniscule in comparison to what others face, and it's something I've seen many people say are light drugs that are easy to get off of, so why does this feel so terrible? I just feel really hopeless when this happens and I don't know what to do.

 

[someguyontheinternet]

There are a lot of alkaloids in kratom that act at all sorts of different receptors, not just opioid. It may help you to stabilize on a mitragynine extract and then try to taper down that way you can eliminate or at least reduce the possibility of interactions

 

[gabafucked]

There are a lot of alkaloids in kratom that act at all sorts of different receptors, not just opioid. It may help you to stabilize on a mitragynine extract and then try to taper down that way you can eliminate or at least reduce the possibility of interactions

So you suspect this is the kratom rather than the gabapentin? I'm not sure how quickly I can drop my dose without causing more problems from withdrawal, but I will try my best. Do you think it will improve once I get my individual dose down below a certain point?

 

[someguyontheinternet]

Switching to a mitragynine extract is likely the best quick possible solution that wouldn't involve opioid withdrawal. The other alkaloids in kratom have caused problems for myself and other BL members

I would look for an extract with minimal secondary alkaloids and high mitragynine content

 

[gabafucked]

Switching to a mitragynine extract is likely the best quick possible solution that wouldn't involve opioid withdrawal. The other alkaloids in kratom have caused problems for myself and other BL members

I would look for an extract with minimal secondary alkaloids and high mitragynine content

Okay I'll look into this. I always stayed away from extracts as they seemed like a way to heavily increase your tolerance and eventually withdrawal. Do you have any idea why after many years of no problems this could suddenly be happening to me? Do you know threads or elsewhere I could read about others experiences with this? Been trying to search for some but haven't had much luck yet. I know the kratom enthusiasts such as those on reddit do their damnedest to squash any talk of the dangers of kratom. This is really fucking with my sleep and mental health especially this morning waking up at 2 am dealing with this. I'm finally taking my morning gabapentin dose and hopefully feel better in a couple of hours...

 

[JackARoe]

So you suspect this is the kratom rather than the gabapentin?

I guess you kind of have to wade past the variables. Could be the kratom. I personally think it is the gabapentin. I know we are all different but when I have no kratom in my system I get more lethargic than anxiety. But from what I read (book smart but still take these drugs) a person that takes gabapentin in large doses daily it can for sure lead to that type of anxiety. 3600 mgs is a large dose. Common but large. I mean you said once the morning gabapentin kicks in you feel betters. It is posts like this that made me never take it daily when I got prescribed. But it does seem a lot of people can take a lot of daily gabapentin before issues even arise.

Kratom can lead to anxiety too, I get it more when I take it. But again we are all different. If it were me I would go back to what you were doing that worked, and alter it from there. Although that may not work either.

You did mention work too. Work can for sure cause "adrenaline/cortisol" type release. Don't discount that. I remember some years back I thought it was kratom making me feel poisoned. But I had left a job and felt so much better while still taking kratom. Like the poison feeling in my chest was gone. So it was the stress that was getting to me. Just an FYI that I remember.

Again a lot of variables. But try and get to a more balanced place.

 

[gabafucked]

I guess you kind of have to wade past the variables. Could be the kratom. I personally think it is the gabapentin. I know we are all different but when I have no kratom in my system I get more lethargic than anxiety. But from what I read (book smart but still take these drugs) a person that takes gabapentin in large doses daily it can for sure lead to that type of anxiety. 3600 mgs is a large dose. Common but large. I mean you said once the morning gabapentin kicks in you feel betters. It is posts like this that made me never take it daily when I got prescribed. But it does seem a lot of people can take a lot of daily gabapentin before issues even arise.

Kratom can lead to anxiety too, I get it more when I take it. But again we are all different. If it were me I would go back to what you were doing that worked, and alter it from there. Although that may not work either.

You did mention work too. Work can for sure cause "adrenaline/cortisol" type release. Don't discount that. I remember some years back I thought it was kratom making me feel poisoned. But I had left a job and felt so much better while still taking kratom. Like the poison feeling in my chest was gone. So it was the stress that was getting to me. Just an FYI that I remember.

Again a lot of variables. But try and get to a more balanced place.

Yes I feel better after the gabapentin kicks in usually. I'm currently taking 3000mg daily 1.8g morning 1.2g evening but staggered in 300mg every 30 minutes. I took it in the past at high dosages and was able to cold turkey and it really wasn't that bad. I feel mostly okay after my morning dose until early the next morning whenever I wake up. I would love to get to a more balanced place so that I can try to taper and quit as painlessly as possible. I can't do debilitating withdrawal I'm an adult now with a good life and I can't fuck this up. I always thought I could just taper when the time came and stick to my normal dosages without suddenly feeling like this which I did for years... I don't think it's work as I enjoy my job for the most part.

 

[JackARoe]

Yes I feel better after the gabapentin kicks in usually. I'm currently taking 3000mg daily 1.8g morning 1.2g evening but staggered in 300mg every 30 minutes. I took it in the past at high dosages and was able to cold turkey and it really wasn't that bad.

See that is also interesting. People being able to CT off gabapentin (or pregabalin) a few times without issue. But then the issues arise. (kindling?) I have scoured this board for all gabapentin info over the years. So I make the best guess when I read similar situations.

I have never taken gabapentin daily or even close to daily due to reading posts like that. I keep sciatica and shoulder issues at bay with some stretches. I take the gabapentin occasionally. But I can say after 8 years I can still feel 300 mgs. And 1200 is strong for me.

If you do make some changes keep us updated. I am willing to bet a little change will help. The body needs to get use to new things and it does over time. Hopefully you are ok for the moment and it is not too bad right now. SGOTI (someguyontheinternet ) could also be correcft. But I do not know much about extracts, I would just assume that could kick up tolerance, but have less of the stimulation part of kratom. So it could work. I would still stick with plain leaf until you adjust. (JMO)

 

[gabafucked]

See that is also interesting. People being able to CT off gabapentin (or pregabalin) a few times without issue. But then the issues arise. (kindling?) I have scoured this board for all gabapentin info over the years. So I make the best guess when I read similar situations.

I have never taken gabapentin daily or even close to daily due to reading posts like that. I keep sciatica and should issues at bay with some stretches. I take the gabapentin occasionally. But I can say after 8 years I can still feel 300 mgs. And 1200 is strong for me.

If you do make some changes keep us updated. I am willing to bet a little change will help. The body needs to get use to new things and it does over time. Hopefully you are ok for the moment and it is not too bad right now. SGOTI (someguyontheinternet ) could also be correcft. But I do not know much about extracts, I would just assume that could kick up tolerance, but have less of the stimulation part of kratom. So it could work. I would still stick with plain leaf until you adjust. (JMO)

I am okay right now not in a terrible place just a bit uncomfortable and tired due to my sleep being fucked up. I just spiral every morning and catastrophize everything until my morning gabapentin does its thing. I get scared and just try to find any information I can on what's happening and what I might be able to do, but I haven't found anything similar to my situation to compare to. I know of kindling somewhat and I suppose that could be a factor here. Never been addicted to any type of gaba agonists benzos etc. I'm not sure what changes I could make to help adjust and stop this from happening every morning so that I can taper more

 

[someguyontheinternet]

The reason I suggest extract is just to eliminate variables to figure out what's going on. Taking kratom leaf is like taking 10 different drugs AND gabapentin. If we eliminate 7 or 8 of those drugs, we can get a better idea of what's doing what. Like just take enough extract to stave off withdrawals, the amount of mitragynine should be equivalent to the amount in the leaf you take but you may get withdrawal symptoms from removal of the other alkaloids

 

[gabafucked]

The reason I suggest extract is just to eliminate variables to figure out what's going on. Taking kratom leaf is like taking 10 different drugs AND gabapentin. If we eliminate 7 or 8 of those drugs, we can get a better idea of what's doing what. Like just take enough extract to stave off withdrawals, the amount of mitragynine should be equivalent to the amount in the leaf you take but you may get withdrawal symptoms from removal of the other alkaloids.

Yeah that does make sense Ive just never used extracts so I'll have to do some research. I also just realized I think every time this has happened it's been from my "nighttime" red strain and maybe the alkaloid content in that isn't agreeing with me? I'll make sure to avoid that one for now and take my other day time kratom tomorrow when I wake up and see what happens. I also recently took a dose of prednisone and I'm wondering if that is having some impact. Or at least exacerbating this. My real question is why this only happens early morning (and I pray it stays that way I won't be function in my day to day if this starts happening all the time). The big competent obviously is the gabapentin, but then why am I good all day and make it to my evening dose no problem? It's only 600mg lower than my morning dose so you would think it would hold me until morning, and it did for a long time. I've been very good about not cheating on both the gabapentin and kratom since I started having these problems a few months ago, so it's not like im fluctuating wildly in my dose of things causing my brain to be confused about what we are getting each day. I've been wracking my brain trying to figure out any other variables that might have changed to cause this to start and I just can't come up with anything. The only other medication I take is prescribed modafinil each morning but I haven't changed that either. I even stopped taking magnesium at night quite awhile ago in case it was inhibiting absorption of the gabapentin.

 

[gabafucked]

See that is also interesting. People being able to CT off gabapentin (or pregabalin) a few times without issue. But then the issues arise. (kindling?) I have scoured this board for all gabapentin info over the years. So I make the best guess when I read similar situations.

I have never taken gabapentin daily or even close to daily due to reading posts like that. I keep sciatica and should issues at bay with some stretches. I take the gabapentin occasionally. But I can say after 8 years I can still feel 300 mgs. And 1200 is strong for me.

If you do make some changes keep us updated. I am willing to bet a little change will help. The body needs to get use to new things and it does over time. Hopefully you are ok for the moment and it is not too bad right now. SGOTI (someguyontheinternet ) could also be correcft. But I do not know much about extracts, I would just assume that could kick up tolerance, but have less of the stimulation part of kratom. So it could work. I would still stick with plain leaf until you adjust. (JMO)

This is so weird... The crippling anxiety is gone for now but I feel like I'm in low level physical withdrawal for no reason.... Body aches, chills, runny nose, overall slight discomfort. It's been about 7 hours since my last dose of kratom so I'll try 6g which is a bit lower than what I was at previously of 6.5g (9-10g 4-5x per day 2 months ago. I dropped the dose with seemingly no issues at that time...)

 

[Painful One]

I think you have been given good advise by all who posted here.

I don’t have a lot of experience with Kratom, I did take it occasionally when I ran out of morphine for a few days here and there.
I found it raised my tolerance a lot. Like, you would think morphine would cover it but no.
Maybe Kratom just doesn’t agree with me. IDK…but have heard others say the same thing.

Your dose of gabapentin is very high.
Gabapentin is very hard on your kidneys. Are you having any back pain?
Make sure you drink lots of water with the gabapentin and all day long.
I would try to lower that dosage asap.
I, myself take 1800 mg gabapentin a day.
I have ran out of it before and went 6-7 days without any. Cold Turkey.
It wasn’t that bad of a withdrawal and after five days I felt better and noticed my mind was more sharp.
I am trying to taper the gabapentin and would like to only use it when things get really flared up but I have chronic body pain and the migraines we talked about and haven’t been able to accomplish that -yet.

I also wake up every morning in a panic, severe anxiety type situation and I don’t know why either.
I had a reprieve from that when I was prescribed low dose morphine for the chronic pain.
It was so nice not to wake up and know that was coming.
It happened before I was prescribed morphine or gabapentin and before any kratom usage.
I also feel better once my gabapentin kicks in.
I take 600 mg 3 times a day.
It is pretty heavy duty.
After not having it for that 7 days and then taking it, I was knocked out cold.

I think my anxiety comes from just knowing the pain that is coming everyday. IDK.
I have not been able to link it to any drug usage and I have tested that.
Each one of us is different, so you kinda have to listen to others experience but then figure out what does what to your body.
I know that is a hard situation. I am sorry that you are going through that.

When did this start?
That is a big clue.
Mine started after being injured in a car accident and had migraines knocked out of control and a back injury.

 

[gabafucked]

I think you have been given good advise by all who posted here.

I don’t have a lot of experience with Kratom, I did take it occasionally when I ran out of morphine for a few days here and there.
I found it raised my tolerance a lot. Like, you would think morphine would cover it but no.
Maybe Kratom just doesn’t agree with me. IDK…but have heard others say the same thing.

Your dose of gabapentin is very high.
Gabapentin is very hard on your kidneys. Are you having any back pain?
Make sure you drink lots of water with the gabapentin and all day long.
I would try to lower that dosage asap.
I, myself take 1800 mg gabapentin a day.
I have ran out of it before and went 6-7 days without any. Cold Turkey.
It wasn’t that bad of a withdrawal and after five days I felt better and noticed my mind was more sharp.
I am trying to taper the gabapentin and would like to only use it when things get really flared up but I have chronic body pain and the migraines we talked about and haven’t been able to accomplish that -yet.

I also wake up every morning in a panic, severe anxiety type situation and I don’t know why either.
I had a reprieve from that when I was prescribed low dose morphine for the chronic pain.
It was so nice not to wake up and know that was coming.
It happened before I was prescribed morphine or gabapentin and before any kratom usage.
I also feel better once my gabapentin kicks in.
I take 600 mg 3 times a day.
It is pretty heavy duty.
After not having it for that 7 days and then taking it, I was knocked out cold.

I think my anxiety comes from just knowing the pain that is coming everyday. IDK.
I have not been able to link it to any drug usage and I have tested that.
Each one of us is different, so you kinda have to listen to others experience but then figure out what does what to your body.
I know that is a hard situation. I am sorry that you are going through that.

When did this start?
That is a big clue.
Mine started after being injured in a car accident and had migraines knocked out of control and a back injury.

Yes I agree I need to get the gabapentin dose down but I'm always too afraid to because I feel so terrible in the morning I take The whole dose just to make sure I feel better. I think it's been happening for a few months and just gets more frequent. It was only happening occasionally before but I'm afraid it's going to be every day now. Maybe I nocebo my self into it because I'm so worried about it the anxiety takes over... Idk

 

[gabafucked]

I think you have been given good advise by all who posted here.

I don’t have a lot of experience with Kratom, I did take it occasionally when I ran out of morphine for a few days here and there.
I found it raised my tolerance a lot. Like, you would think morphine would cover it but no.
Maybe Kratom just doesn’t agree with me. IDK…but have heard others say the same thing.

Your dose of gabapentin is very high.
Gabapentin is very hard on your kidneys. Are you having any back pain?
Make sure you drink lots of water with the gabapentin and all day long.
I would try to lower that dosage asap.
I, myself take 1800 mg gabapentin a day.
I have ran out of it before and went 6-7 days without any. Cold Turkey.
It wasn’t that bad of a withdrawal and after five days I felt better and noticed my mind was more sharp.
I am trying to taper the gabapentin and would like to only use it when things get really flared up but I have chronic body pain and the migraines we talked about and haven’t been able to accomplish that -yet.

I also wake up every morning in a panic, severe anxiety type situation and I don’t know why either.
I had a reprieve from that when I was prescribed low dose morphine for the chronic pain.
It was so nice not to wake up and know that was coming.
It happened before I was prescribed morphine or gabapentin and before any kratom usage.
I also feel better once my gabapentin kicks in.
I take 600 mg 3 times a day.
It is pretty heavy duty.
After not having it for that 7 days and then taking it, I was knocked out cold.

I think my anxiety comes from just knowing the pain that is coming everyday. IDK.
I have not been able to link it to any drug usage and I have tested that.
Each one of us is different, so you kinda have to listen to others experience but then figure out what does what to your body.
I know that is a hard situation. I am sorry that you are going through that.

When did this start?
That is a big clue.
Mine started after being injured in a car accident and had migraines knocked out of control and a back injury.

I have some black seed oil extract, and I think it actually does give me some relief, but I get afraid to take it because I'm afraid since it gives relief it will cause withdrawal and I'll just have another problem. I can't really find anyone saying they have experienced much in the way of withdrawal, but I scare myself into not taking anything else that might help because I'm afraid of more problems down the line.

 

[Painful One]

Yes I agree I need to get the gabapentin dose down but I'm always too afraid to because I feel so terrible in the morning I take The whole dose just to make sure I feel better. I think it's been happening for a few months and just gets more frequent. It was only happening occasionally before but I'm afraid it's going to be every day now. Maybe I nocebo my self into it because I'm so worried about it the anxiety takes over... Idk

I know what you speak of, that is for sure.
I sometimes resort to taking two gabapentin in the morning and my clonazepam (which I need at Night) and some Benadryl just to make me chill out to like a normal human level.
God, it sucks.

I have considered talking to my doctor about it but I am afraid they might take away my clonazepam.

There is something called “rebound anxiety” which happens to people who take Xanax and probably other benzodiazepines.
I never abuse mine because I need them bad.
Like you are saying , you keep things exactly the same with medication and didn’t have that problem before., so I have ruled that out.
We can rule that out for you, at least with benzodiazepines because you don’t take any.

I wonder if Gabapentin can cause that kind of rebound anxiety?
It is supposed to last 12 hours.
Maybe we could try to take our second dose of Gabapentin right before we go to bed and see if that helps?

I have been coming off morphine for a year now, so I thought maybe it was withdrawal, like you are thinking….but it wouldn’t be going on this long.

 

[gabafucked]

I know what you speak of, that is for sure.
I sometimes resort to taking two gabapentin in the morning and my clonazepam (which I need at Night) and some Benadryl just to make me chill out to like a normal human level.
God, it sucks.

I have considered talking to my doctor about it but I am afraid they might take away my clonazepam.

There is something called “rebound anxiety” which happens to people who take Xanax and probably other benzodiazepines.
I never abuse mine because I need them bad.
Like you are saying , you keep things exactly the same with medication and didn’t have that problem before., so I have ruled that out.
We can rule that out for you, at least with benzodiazepines because you don’t take any.

I wonder if Gabapentin can cause that kind of rebound anxiety?
It is supposed to last 12 hours.
Maybe we could try to take our second dose of Gabapentin right before we go to bed and see if that helps?

I have been coming off morphine for a year now, so I thought maybe it was withdrawal, like you are thinking….but it wouldn’t be going on this long.

Yes I am definitely familiar with the idea of rebound anxiety and I'm sure gabapentin is causing that! That's another thing I'm afraid of with taking any other supplements/meds. Just more rebound anxiety later down the line! I don't take any benzos and I'm terrified of them because of the experience I've had with the gabapentin. I'm sure benzos would help a ton when I quit the gabapentin and kratom for good, but I'm scared of the rebound anxiety, or having withdrawal from them even if only using for a couple of weeks.

 

[Painful One]

I have some black seed oil extract, and I think it actually does give me some relief, but I get afraid to take it because I'm afraid since it gives relief it will cause withdrawal and I'll just have another problem. I can't really find anyone saying they have experienced much in the way of withdrawal, but I scare myself into not taking anything else that might help because I'm afraid of more problems down the line.

I think black seed oil is pretty safe. It is organic.
I have some of that but only have used it for Toothache. Just swished it around and spit it out.
How much black seed oil do you take?

 

[gabafucked]

I think black seed oil is pretty safe. It is organic.
I have some of that but only have used it for Toothache. Just swished it around and spit it out.
How much black seed oil do you take?

I have an extract from a supplement vendor and take 3-4 capsules at a time. Never taken it more than once a day and try not to use it for too many days consecutively. I think it has some type of gaba and opioid activity both, but everyone says it's non addictive and shouldn't cause rebound. Still makes me nervous for some reason