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Opioids What percent of Hydrocodone is converted to Hydromorphone?

C

CaliBoy90

Greenlighter
Joined
Mar 2, 2014
Messages
12
Is there an estimate? I know it varies person to person, but is there at least an estimated amount or is it unknown?
Edit: I think I figured out the answer. According to one thread on this site, and according also to one conversion chart I'm using, up to 25% of Hydrocodone gets converted into the stronger Hydromorphone. That's a lot, IMO, especially at higher does. That means a simply 5MG tablet of Hydrocodone converts into 1.25 MG of Hydromorphone. Which means once it converts, it's supposedly ADDING to the already existing Hydrocodone. While if you get into that larger ranges, which I listed below, like 50MG of Hydro, that means 25% of 50MG gets converted over to Hydromorphone (under optimal conditions). That means 50MG of Hydro turns into 12.5MG of Hydromorphone, which means it "adds" to the Hydro quite a bit once it converts over. My concern though was taking Tagament before Hydro would in theory inhibt the conversion of Hydrocodone over to Hydromorphone..... (which I also read on this site, one guy warned that Tagment is actually NOT a good idea). Maybe he's right? Especially if 20% to 25% Of Hydro is being turned into it's more powerful HydroMorphone, then you'd be losing a lot by taking Tagment because it interferes with Hydrcodones converisions into Hydromorphone.. In theory, at least.

My other question. In general, what do you think is stronger (pain relief wise, buzz wise, just overall wise.):

--10MG of Oxycontin extened release at 10am. Then at 2PM, you take 10MG of immediate release Oxycodone. (so you'd still have small amounts of OxyContin releasing itself in addition to the 10MG of imm Oxycodone. My estimate is the 10MG of slow release will release about 0.5MG per hour over 12 hours, after of course the initial release of 33%, but the initial release will be long gone by the time 2PM comes around. So that means you are taking 10MG of imm release oxycodone + you're getting about 0.5MG of the slow release Oxycontin, too.)
VS
--20MG of OxyContin extened release at 10am. Then at 2PM, you take 17.5MG of immediate release Hydrocodone. (so you'd still have small amounts of OxyContin releasing itself in addition to the 17.5MG of Hydrcodone you took. My estimate is the 20MG of slow release will release about 1.1MG per hour over 12 hours, after of course the initial release of 33% but that intial release is long gone by the time 2PM comes around. So that means you are taking 10MG of imm release oxycodone + youre' getting about 1.1MG of the slow release Oxycontin, too.)

Which do you think is stronger? I have my reasons for asking, so I just wanted some opinions. Also, while I'm asking, which do you guys personally find gives you MORE energy: Hydrocodone or Oxycodone? BTW, I have a daily tolerance of years worth too Oxycodone, so I thought maybe the cross tolerance by switching to Hydro might make it work better again?
 
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I'm pretty sure you're over thinking this. Why does it matter (it doesn't) that a small amount is metabolized into the morphones? Anyway, to answer a few of the relevant questions, yes hydro has a longer half life than oxy, oxy is pretty short acting. Hydro is slightly weaker than oxy mg for mg, IIRC it's something like 10mg oxy = 15mg hydro. Hydro has kind of a 'dopier' buzz to it, more downy, while oxy can be fairly stimulating if you're tolerant/don't take too much. Oxy is considered 'better' by most everyone (although if you could get IR hydro in big doses, it would gain popularity methinks).

As for all that dosing schedule stuff, you'll have to figure it out for yourself... by doing it. Everyone is affected differently, and time release can be inconsistent as well. Seriously, just play it by ear - you'll have to feel it out.
 
Thanks for the above link I'll read it.

Yeah I proably am over thinking it. I do that a lot. Here was part of my concern: I take tagement before every dosage. Now, since Hydrocodone (at least I heard) gets most of it's strong effects from converting over to Hydromorphone, I read one thread here on Bluelight that taking Tagement before Hydro would DECREASE it greatly, because Hydro by itself does very little and it rather relies on Hydromorphone to give it's effects. While Oxycodone is not effected as much, because supposedly Oxycodone works "on it's own" before converting into Oxymorphone while Hydrocodone "on it's own" is worthless as it relies solely on it's conversion over to Hydromorphone.. (this guy could be totall wrong). So by taking tagament, you are messing with the metabolism of the CYP2D6 enzyme, so therefore (again from what I read) that would make the Hydro convert almost none over to Hydromorphone, making it much weaker. This person who posted this could be totally wrong, or entirely right, no idea. I have yet to try tagamet before Hydrcodone beause I don't take Hydrocodone so I can't test how it works... I take Oxycodone and sometimes tagamet does seem to weaken it, other times the opposite. Can't tell if he's right. If he's right about the Hydro that would suck.


I'm actually very tolerant, been on these meds daily for years but at low doses spread through-out the day. Oxycodone gives me zero energy, at least anymore. 1 1/2 years ago it, yeah it did gave me energy and it felt like it "woke me up". Now? Nope. Now sometimes I just get really tired. That's why I was thinking about switching to Hydro, maybe the "cross tolerance" will help some, and plus Hydro would be in higher doses. But problem is I can't "test" them out before asking for a switch. And if I do bring up the topic of switching, I need to be certain I think it's a good idea, because it's not a good idea to be asking doctors too many questions about "I kinda want to try this med" as they'll probably red flag you just for asking the question the wrong way.

So in your opinion, which choice would YOU choose:

10MG of Oxycodone instant release X 4 per day = total of 40MG oxyoconde daily
VS
10MG of Hydrocodone instant release X 5 per day + 20MG of extened release Oxycodone = 50MG Hydro+20MG oxycodone=total of 70MG worth of both combinded.

The Hydro can be cut in halfs, making it 15MG X 4 per day, or 17.5MG X3 per day. Plus the 20MG of extened release oxycodone releasing should "add" to the Hydro, since it's releasing around 1-2MG of Oxycodone per hour in addition to the Hydro. I figure 17.5MG of Hydro has gotta be at least "noticably" stronger than 10MG of Oxycodone, right?
To me the second option seconds better, but I don't know. I'd hate to ask unless I was certain.
 
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what does IIRC mean and how much hydrocodone turns to hydromorphone is irrelevant hydromorphone is really only a good drug if you IV it and IV hydrocodone is very dangerous because of how much histamine it releases
 
I believe IIRC means "If I recall correctly". Also, I wasn't sure if it mattered or not, because one BlueLighter here made a thread all about how it mattered quite a bit.

He said up to 25% of Hydrcodone is converted into Hydromorphone (that's A LOT). That means a simple 5MG of Hydrocodone = 1.25mg of Hydromorphone, potentially. Which according to one converision chart I'm using online, is actually accurate. If you are talking higher does, like 50MG of Hydrocodone, 25% becomes even more. 50MG of Hydrocodone, according to that thread I'm talking about, could convert up to 25% of that 50MG, which would be 12.5MG of Hydromorphone. (I'm also using a converision chart to get these numbers, and they agree with what that guy said on here).

That's why I wondered. Especially if it's up to 25% of Hydrco is converted into HydroMorphone, that's a decently big deal, especially the higher the dose.
 
Alrighty, well I can't give you a clinical answer about specific amounts of cimetidine + hydro. Again, if you can't find a document online, I suppose feeling it out would work - but I don't think it will totally inhibit the morphone conversion THAT profoundly in reasonable doses (it'll likely just slow it). Anecdotal evidence I've seen shows people using it to potentiate without any issue in normal doses.

As for the real question, 40mg IR oxy or 50 hydro + 20 ER oxy... that's actually a tough one. OP oxy is such a shitty formulation, and 40mg oxy = ~60 of hydro, so while it would be 'enough' if you switched it may not be better. It would depend more on whether YOU prefer the hydro effect to the oxy. Your best bet would be to acquire some hydro and try it out.
 
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