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What makes something offensive? How & why do words and symbols become offensive?

Blue_Phlame

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An answer: Anything can potentially be offensive, but what makes it offensive is the person's perspective.

Dialogue: Each person has a perspective. Each perspective is unique to the individual that holds it, but similar perspectives can be shared between two people. Those two people have a shared perspective on certain issues, but cannot have the same perspective on the issues; there will always be slight differences between individuals no matter how close those two people are. Are you following me? Let me use a quick example that might illustrate this a little better. Skip it if you follow me.

Lets say that we have two identical twins. Both raised by the same parents, in the same household, taught by the same teachers, listened to the same music, watched the same TV shows, together at the same time, every time. Everything you can realistically think of has been the same for both twins. These two twins are more alike each other than anyone else, but no matter where they are or what they do, they are still two separate individuals that must sit in two different chairs, and take turns when there is only one of something to go around. When one of the twins is taking the first turn on a coin-operated ride infront of a supermarket, the other twin must wait their turn and watch as the other twin goes first. The first twin has fun on the ride, but for the sake of this example we'll say the ride breaks down. The second twin no longer have a turn on the ride. This example is innocuous that it may seem insignificant to us, but to the second twin, it may affect their perspective on how they view being first or second next time there's situation when to take turns. These two identical twins have a slightly different perspective on one inconsequential situation.

Once we agree that other people have a different perspective, we can start to debate what makes something offensive.

Lets start with the Random House Unabridged Dictionary definition of
Offensive

  1. causing resentful displeasure; highly irritating, angering, or annoying:
    offensive television commercials.
  2. unpleasant or disagreeable to the sense:
    an offensive odor.
  3. repugnant to the moral sense, good taste, or the like; insulting:
    an offensive remark; an offensive joke.
  4. pertaining to offense or attack:
    the offensive movements of their troops.
  5. characterized by attack; aggressive:
    offensive warfare.


Offensive terms are a complicated territory, but it doesn't have to be. Other things that I've found to be considered as offensive are contextual phrases (he's a dog vs sup dawg?), or whether a person of a certain out-group uses a term vs someone in the in-group uses the term (sex, race, religion, politics, emotional state, education, affiliation, etc.), or plainly incorrect statements, generalizations, or controversial statements.

I've heard the concerns whether we're doing anyone a favor by labeling more and more words as "offensive" and therefore granting previously inoffensive words the power to offend. A perspective on that statement is whether there's a difference between labeling words as offensive or describing them as being offensive. Whether you're offended by a word or not, makes little difference whether someone else is offended by that word because we each have our own perspectives. Often times its necessary to understand another person's perspective before using certain words if you don't intend to offend. By being informed and educated about another person's viewpoint allows us to respond effectively to each other and communicate without causing offense. However, if there is a divergence between two people who don't share the same perspective of what's offensive, the situation should not default to being considered offensive if one of the persons did not intend for a word or phrase to be offensive. Its the difference between perspectives that makes this division.
If one person is offended by a remark, but the other person did not mean to offend, it would make sense to resolve the issue of offense promptly, because who wants to remain in a state of constant annoyance or irritation? Nobody. Redefining the words we use to communicate, or restrict their use isn't beneficial for everyone either. Sometimes making decisions to outright ban words because it can potentially offend someone is contrary to freedom of expression, which according to the United Nations is a human right for every individual to hold opinions without interference and to seek, receive and impart information and ideas through any media and regardless of frontiers (Universal Declaration of Human Rights).

An example from The Conversation article about insults and careful use of language attest to the aggressive and often unjust policing of the use of words in certain environments.
In 1999, the word niggardly (which is unrelated to nigger) famously led to the firing of a staffer in the Washington, D.C. mayor?s office. The University of California (Santa Cruz) banned students from the saying the phrases "chink in one?s armour" and "a nip in the air" for fear of offending Asian students. (The Conversation)

I'm of the opinion that the context of which a word is used is important, and taking power away from words that cause offense is similar to what we do with a President if they have too much power - take the excessive power away from the Executive branch via checks and balances of the Legislative and Judicial branches and visa versa, so no one branch has too much power, and no one word can cause excessive outrage.
 
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One direction I would like to see this go is finding the history or etymology of certain offensive words (eg. Abo for Aboriginal, or Negro for black), and how, when, and why they became widely known to be offensive in the first place.

"It's offensive because it is offensive" isn't the kind of explanation i'm looking for, but rather logical explanations with specific examples if possible. Or perhaps personal examples of when someone offended you, and why you were offended by it.
 
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Interesting post, thanks mate.

Blue Phlame said:
Dialogue: Each person has a perspective. Each perspective is unique to the individual that holds it, but similar perspectives can be shared between two people. Those two people have a shared perspective on certain issues, but cannot have the same perspective on the issues; there will always be slight differences between individuals no matter how close those two people are. Are you following me? Let me use a quick example that might illustrate this a little better. Skip it if you follow me
.

I follow you, and your hidden example. In effect, you are saying that people are different. This is true, all humans have their own, isolated consciousness and internal moral 'codes'. We also all have our own way of processing language and context which leads to divergences in expressed opinions based on ones own intepretaion of a word or event.

However, we all also follow or adhere to certain societal structures, or are at least aware of them. It would require the black hole of literal semantics to unravel how certain specific words become offensive. We all have internal understanding of the concept of 'in-groups' and 'out-groups' which we reinforce with our behaviour and communication. A human is fucking complex! How simple it is to make assumptions about certain humans and their attributes or rights rather than taking the time to attempt communcation and understanding. But, there is a growing understanding of the artifical nature of this instinct, mainly towards the manner in which it arbitrarily assigns, by dint of random birth, certain attributes and a particular type of (usually shitty) life. There is absurdity at play. To create these out-groups, we have developed certain behaviours and words- sounds prodduced by a weird throat organ- which reinforce this structure.

A term is offensive when it dimishes and compartmentalises humans. Sometimes a word emerges that is 'inoffensive', but contextually a brief summation of a larger negative attitude. Through something like osmosis, this trickles through society and we adapt our behaviour and communication. We are social animals.

My problem is not with words, but what these words say about our thinking.

However, the inherent 'right' to say offensive things is as valid as the right to take offence.

However, if there is a divergence between two people who don't share the same perspective of what's offensive, the situation should not default to being considered offensive if one of the persons did not intend for a word or phrase to be offensive.

That's true, but in some cases a word is inherently offensive. It has become an emblem of a particular attitude that is detrimental and intent is basically nullified by the broader societal agreement.

You mention intent a few times. But, isn't it consequences that we should consider?

Sometimes making decisions to outright ban words because it can potentially offend someone is contrary to freedom of expression, which according to the United Nations is a human right for every individual to hold opinions without interference and to seek, receive and impart information and ideas through any media and regardless of frontiers

What words are "banned"? I cannot think of any (I am talking in a general sense), but I do understand that we have laws which trickle-down to the manner in which we communicate, and create a taboo over certain terms. I also see a kind of absurdity about this, but isn't most of our humanity kinda absurd?

It is superficial to think that all we are doing is changing language. What we are trying to change is attitudes. This can definitely go too far, and I find the current wave of agitating victims pretty annoying. But, I understand why this is happening and I support any movement towards a more just society. Sounds pretty hippy/fairy but that is what I want to see, and I think we can make a postive difference by changin
 
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You mention intent a few times. But, isn't it consequences that we should consider?
Yes, this should always be a consideration, however ignorance usually plays just as big or even bigger role in consequences.

Example 1 (Ignorance may protect someone from being offended): I recently educated myself about the words "Abo" and "Aboriginal", having had great ignorance to what either word meant - it meant absolutely nothing to me to see or hear the word "Abo." I was clueless to it's meaning and therefor I was made impossible to be offended by it's use as long as I was ignorant to it. As a side note, my ignorance was so great that I would have been unable to pick up on contextually offending uses of the word as well.

Example 2 (Ignoring someone's ignorance can be just as great of a mistake as ignoring someone's feelings of being offended): If I say that someone could have gay parents as well as them being gay themselves, it is coming from a place of experience from having many gay friends who have had children during a time in their life that they were confused. However, this type of experience isn't common, making the common person ignorant to understand what I mean. This has sometimes lead them to think that I am calling them gay or even implying it as an insult. I have seen a few people get extremely offended by this statement and it's clearly coming from a place of ignorance. It's not enough to simply look at their emotions and say they are in the right simply because they thought I was trying to insult them.
 
Oh wow. An UA'd post in the what makes something offensive thread.

lol

that-is-offensive.jpg



“If you're offended by any word in any language, it’s probably because your parents were unfit to raise a child. They were too stupid, they should have been neutered, because all it is is a sound you can make with your mouth! It’s not a weakness that you have naturally. When you come out of that pink ugly hole onto this planet, you're nothing but a gooey, shrinking, wrinkled ball of weakness. That’s all you are: you're weak, you're nothing but weak, and your parents look at that, and they think, “Not weak enough! We can make this thing even weaker by training it to react poorly to different sounds that you can make with your mouth.” We'll list them out, this is the worst thing, if anyone ever says this sound: [unintelligible gibberish], that’s the worst thing they can call you, so make sure to recoil and cry, and be hurt and devastated, and eat ice cream on a couch for days, and then write a song about it. You wouldn't do that otherwise, you'd just be happy if your parents didn't fuck it up. You'd just be a happier person...."
-Doug Stanhope

"Political correctness is America’s newest form of intolerance, and it is especially pernicious because it comes disguised as tolerance. It presents itself as fairness, yet attempts to restrict and control people’s language with strict codes and rigid rules. I’m not sure that’s the way to fight discrimination. I’m not sure silencing people or forcing them to alter their speech is the best method for solving problems that go much deeper than speech."
George Carlin
 
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I will say this. BP certainly seems quite capable of intelligent discussion.
 
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An answer: Anything can potentially be offensive, but what makes it offensive is the person's perspective.

It takes a lot more than a single person for something to be deemed offensive. Any one person can find anything offensive, but that's different from stuff that has become offensive by a large portion of a culture, that happens over time, typically from historical events that give reasons for people to be offended. "Nigger", for example, has more than enough from history to associate it with racism and oppression that its pretty universally offensive in the US. The swastika is pretty much the same, despite it originally being a symbol of auspiciousness and good luck, thanks to the nazis it is now associated with genocide and racism around the world, to the point where most will be offended when seeing it.
 
@ the swastika.

swastika-car.jpg



I had a Indian customer buy a vehicle from me and they had painted some swastikas in it with some sort of dye/henna like stuff and a few of the service guys saw it and immediately jumped to "OMG, Nazis!" Then I tried to explain what it actually was and they were just like .... "You're wrong l, that's totally a Nazis thing..." At which point I just gave up and walked away shaking my head.
 
I have not found anything offensive much here in cep and bl in general except for giving someone a hard time due to their drug use. That is deplorable on bl but between friends that are obv having a laugh its fine.


I find someone who deems something offensive as "women would find it offensive", as a woman and that person is a man- ludicrous.


Please refer to the site support thread.
 
@ the swastika.

swastika-car.jpg



I had a Indian customer buy a vehicle from me and they had painted some swastikas in it with some sort of dye/henna like stuff and a few of the service guys saw it and immediately jumped to "OMG, Nazis!" Then I tried to explain what it actually was and they were just like .... "You're wrong l, that's totally a Nazis thing..." At which point I just gave up and walked away shaking my head.

Thats not a nazi symbol. Even I know that.
 
Just for international information, "abo" is just a shortened version of the word "aborigine".

Aussie aboriginals are not even really called that as things are super sensitive to the point of madness and are called indigenous unless filling out govt forms asking "are you of Aboriginal or Torres Straight descent" as those people have different centrelink claim tights (why is this- is it racist? I would think a white unemployed or single parent would be given the same rate but are given LESS).


The racist terms in Australia here are not the same as America.

I am not putting these words up on bl to be racist but hopefully educational.

The term "nigger" used by those with African Australian origin amongst their mates is actually "my nigga" or homie/mate. It is also a racist term used as an aggressive insult by a stranger.

The racist terms here which never ever should be used as they are racist and abusive are:

"Bung"
"Coon"

The jury is out on "gin" for female aboriginals.


These words are never ever allowed or if used the bashing you get you deserve.


Please unapprove or edit or whatever you need as I am putting them up to tell internationals these are the racist terms to clamp down on.

I have never ever used them and deplore them despite being called openly a white slut and racially villified, ran out of an apartment complex under police guard as the locals blamed me for the suicide via crossbow of a neighbour who wanted to kill me as i didnt want to be his woman.

Saying "Trump probably gets a lot of pussy" in the context of the Trump thread is not a violation of blua4 at all.

Sorry. Thats plain wrong.

Anyhoo back to the real world. Im white but sluttery is not correct, just hilariously erroneous.
 
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“If you're offended by any word in any language, it’s probably because your parents were unfit to raise a child. They were too stupid, they should have been neutered, because all it is is a sound you can make with your mouth! It’s not a weakness that you have naturally. When you come out of that pink ugly hole onto this planet, you're nothing but a gooey, shrinking, wrinkled ball of weakness. That’s all you are: you're weak, you're nothing but weak, and your parents look at that, and they think, “Not weak enough! We can make this thing even weaker by training it to react poorly to different sounds that you can make with your mouth.” We'll list them out, this is the worst thing, if anyone ever says this sound: [unintelligible gibberish], that’s the worst thing they can call you, so make sure to recoil and cry, and be hurt and devastated, and eat ice cream on a couch for days, and then write a song about it. You wouldn't do that otherwise, you'd just be happy if your parents didn't fuck it up. You'd just be a happier person...."
-Doug Stanhope

Lol, ridiculous to the point of amusing, but I see this is from some comedian. And to finish on: "you'd just be a happier person..." fucking loooool.

I'm going to assume that you don't seriously believe this and are just being a cheeky bugger amirite? :)

Anyway, sure, words are just sounds blah blah, but it's the association with those sounds that matters and gives meaning. Intent is important, but once a word has been used in such a way and widely enough that it conjures up negative feelings, images and associations, then it's understandable imo that many feel hurt or offended upon hearing them. Words and symbols become offensive after they've been used as weapons as part of larger attacks against groups of people too often and for too long.

I feel like the most important thing we need to do in this world is try to get along, and I cannot imagine how so many have come to the conclusion that it's "weak" to acknowledge and recognise that certain words and symbols work against this. I do however understand that we all respond to fear differently, and I think there's certainly a lot of that going on everywhere at the moment. I can also appreciate that many are worried that eventually political correctness could go "too far," but I seriously struggle to understand how protecting vulnerable groups or being "too nice" to each other is something to shit yourself over and act like this of all things will be what ends us.
 
I had a Indian customer buy a vehicle from me and they had painted some swastikas in it with some sort of dye/henna like stuff and a few of the service guys saw it and immediately jumped to "OMG, Nazis!" Then I tried to explain what it actually was and they were just like .... "You're wrong l, that's totally a Nazis thing..." At which point I just gave up and walked away shaking my head.

That's essentially what I'm getting at, something isn't offensive because a single person finds it offensive, but rather from historical context shared by a society, usually because its become too associated with hatred and oppression.

Before recently I'd never heard of "abo" as a slur for aboriginals, and i know of several from Australia that never knew that it could be racist to associate black people with liking chicken and watermelon. Sometimes it simply boils down to cultural differences that you just hafta accept; if its not your culture then you don't really have any place to try to 'reclaim' a word or icon to make it less offensive.
 
A lot of sayings are now offensive apparently because of "society".

A few people speaking as if they are the voice of society does not make it true though.

If there were a referendum of the entire population rather than the assumption that "I think therefore its true" thrn there would be less clamp down on whats actually really offensive.
 
A lot of sayings are now offensive apparently because of "society".

A few people speaking as if they are the voice of society does not make it true though.

If there were a referendum of the entire population rather than the assumption that "I think therefore its true" thrn there would be less clamp down on whats actually really offensive.

What date are we getting married? I need to put it on the calender. And organise the drugs.
 
.If there were a referendum of the entire population rather than the assumption that "I think therefore its true" thrn there would be less clamp down on whats actually really offensive.

How and why would this happen? I don't understand you :(
 
^ This is my last post in cep*


All the things that are deemed offensive in this forum, for example, one must wonder are they really offensive to the general public ie whomever may read this and complain OR do the rule makers work on assumptions of what is offensive to everyone? Is what is offensive enough to warrant disciplinary action based on what offends you personally ?


If for example a letter was sent out to the entire population with a list of symbols/phrases/words asking what is offensive to that person yes/no, what would the consensus be?

I guess the moral of the story is that you as the staff have the responsibility and privilege to decide what is offensive and what is not, its up to you what boundaries there are here.


One can argue that some opinions can seem a bit off but its one persons opinion and no real cause to get pissed off.






























*until next time Gadget, next time. Mwahaaahaaahaaa
 
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