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Cocaine what makes something cocaine?

O

ongos

Bluelighter
Joined
Aug 9, 2011
Messages
610
I've seen several different production techniques on videos as well as in books. Some uses different chemicals. Now if I drink a coca tea and go for a drug test, it will reveal I have something in me (yet I haven't even used cocaine). So what makes something cocaine?

The chemical structure of cocaine is: ecgonine (from the leaf of the coca plant), benzoic acid, and methyl alcohol. Which is why cocaine's chemical name is benzolymethylecgonine. Right? This had to be the pharmaceutical grade?

Now on the videos I've seen on how cocaine is produced, what was used were kerosene and sulfuric acid. This must be the "street level" cocaine? Perhaps the producers didn't have access to pharma grade benzoic acid and methyl alcohol. Yet it's still cocaine, huh? Why not change the cocaine chemical name to kerosenesulfuricacidecgonine?

why couldn't the ecgonine from coca leaves be extracted by something less "chemical" say vinegar (which is food grade)? Would it not become cocaine as well? I would assume vinegar's acetic acid is also very powerful plus good at preservation.

"Vinegar is a liquid consisting mainly of acetic acid and water. The acetic acid is produced by the fermentation of ethanol by acetic acid bacteria."

Isn't kerosene or gasoline's role is as a solvent? To remove all water? Would using another solvent work? Let's say something made from lime which is also powerful?

Is cocaine synthesis still open to new procedures or has it all been found?
 
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I heard they are looking for new chemists down in south America. Perhaps you could revolutionise the cocaine industry. Just make sure you dont make it on the DEAs most wanted list. Hey you and Walter White should get together
 
Cocaine is a specific molecule. Just like saying "a human's left hand", there are components connected in a specific spatial orientation to make a 3d shape. It's important to not confuse a molecule that can be broken down in to components with a mixture of those components in the first place. Your hand is not considered a hand if it's a pile of disconnected fingers, palm tissue, and wrist bones. Cocaine is not a mixture of methanol, benzoic acid and ecgonine. If you break cocaine apart with water, those are the products you get. But cocaine is just cocaine, just like a car isn't a car unless it has wheels, an engine, a body all connected, or just like your hand isn't a hand if it's missing three fingers and a thumb.

Now on the videos I've seen on how cocaine is produced, what was used were kerosene and sulfuric acid. This must be the "street level" cocaine? Perhaps the producers didn't have access to pharma grade benzoic acid and methyl alcohol. Yet it's still cocaine, huh? Why not change the cocaine chemical name to kerosenesulfuricacidecgonine?
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Because kerosene an sulfuric are reagents used to get the cocaine molecule out of the plant (kerosene dissolves the freebase cocaine, sulfuric acid converts the free base to cocaine sulfate, which is the crude-water soluble product). They aren't used to add anything to cocaine - just to get it out of the plant. They are the cheapest and easiest compounds for the job. Getting kerosene in the jungle is easy. Getting diethyl ether or glacial acetic acid or whatever... not so easy. That's why people use them. The sulfuric acid probably also helps to remove any extra water, 'cause it's a strong dehydrating agent.

why couldn't the ecgonine from coca leaves be extracted by something less "chemical" say vinegar (which is food grade)? Would it not become cocaine as well? I would assume vinegar's acetic acid is also very powerful plus good at preservation.
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The more water you add to your cocaine, the more of it you destroy by hydrolysis. Using vinegar has considerably more water (as it's only 5% acetic acid) than concentrated 98% sulfuric acid. And also, vinegar needs a considerably larger volume to neutralize the same amount of base as sulfuric. So instead of getting crystals of cocaine sulfate you get a huge amount of diluted cocaine acetate in water, which is rapidly breaking down in the warm environment, and will be totally destroyed if you boil the water off or wait more than a few hours. You're not going to be able to get the cocaine out without a huge fucking reverse-phase silica column, and good luck sourcing that in the middle of the Andes.

Cocaine sulfate is further processed and purified to yield pure cocaine HCl, by the way. It's not like drugs aren't sold as sulfates anyway... morphine is commercially distributed as a sulfate salt. Just because you used sulfuric acid to neutralize doesn't make it unsafe for food.

Is cocaine synthesis still open to new procedures or has it all been found?
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Nobody synthesizes cocaine except academics. The commercial supply of cocaine is extracted from coca plants. Always let Mother Nature do the hard work.
 
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The level of chemistry knowledge among the general public, even most drug users is appalling
 
That's partially because few people look for practical applications of chemistry in their lives. The average man has never had to use a seperatory funnel, and probably never will.
 
And I don't need to know who Charlemagne was, but it would be appalling if I didn't.
 
Also what exactly makes something "less chemical" sulfuric acid is used to make dehydrated fruit, most raisins you eat have been treated with it. It is perfectly safe for food. As the saying goes the dose makes the poison. You can OD on vitamins with varying results. Things like hemlock grow in "nature" but I would rather not eat it. You can do amazing things just knowing a little bit of home chemistry. Spill some of that sulfuric acid on yourself? you would know to neutralize it with a base rather than put water on it. Get covered in grease working on your car? You would know why it is better to first wipe your hands off with paper towel and WD-40. Not to mention pretty much any cooking worth doing involves chemistry. Just because you aren't smart enough to pronounce something doesn't make it bad you.
 
and what base would it be when you pour sulfuric acid on yourself?

The dietary supplement I take called Glucosamine Sulfate HCL. Does this mean it has been treated with sulfuric acid? Other process of cocaine manufacturing involved hydrochloric acid (HCL), not sure what it's role, but I think it can be a substitute to sulfuric acid. HCL is available as a dietary supplement as well for people who do not produce enough of this acid in their stomachs.

When you say the dose makes the poison, on the videos I've seen they used several gallons of kerosene and sulfuric acid. So what you're saying is these eventually had to be evaporated and or dehydrate out of the cocaine yield. That might still be a lot of poison?

So if I try to dry a bucket of raisins, I pour a cup of sulfuric acid on it through a strainer? Then let it dry off in the sun? That's still poison in there? That's like having your steak taken a dump on but with a strainer and washed off with sulfuric acid. Shit still passed through your steak right?

Seems like in the 60's or 70's cocaine users didn't look as ugly maybe perhaps it was produced with clean material compared to now? From what I understand kerosene back then were cleaner. The portrayal of cocaine use in Hollywood movies as well as from pictures in real life of past cocaine use appeared as if everyone looked attractive which is perhaps the "allure" of the drug to people who want to use them. The coke users I see these days are wrinkly individuals. Is the modern production technique to blame? Today no one seem to have snortable coke, just "ghetto coke" (i.e. crack), which probably is made with "ghetto" chemicals (i.e. any chemical you can find for cleaning toilet bowls and cars).

bluephoenix said:
Also what exactly makes something "less chemical" sulfuric acid is used to make dehydrated fruit, most raisins you eat have been treated with it. It is perfectly safe for food. As the saying goes the dose makes the poison. You can OD on vitamins with varying results. Things like hemlock grow in "nature" but I would rather not eat it. You can do amazing things just knowing a little bit of home chemistry. Spill some of that sulfuric acid on yourself? you would know to neutralize it with a base rather than put water on it. Get covered in grease working on your car? You would know why it is better to first wipe your hands off with paper towel and WD-40. Not to mention pretty much any cooking worth doing involves chemistry. Just because you aren't smart enough to pronounce something doesn't make it bad you.
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Sekio, regarding the safety of sulfuric acid on foods; if I pour a teaspoon of it to dry out raisins and or dates, can it be eaten without anyone going to the ER?

does the sulfuric acid then dissolve into thin air? So it dries out. No sulfuric acid is smoked or ingested by a person smoking the final product (cocaine)?

is cocaine sulfate for snorting since it is a powder? or not?

The reason why I opened this thread is that something in me is thinking that if sulfuric acid is smoked or ingested you could perhaps end up in the hospital. If you throw sulfuric acid on someone they could get acid burns. Same goes with the potential danger of ingesting kerosene. So what you're saying is that to remove the cocaine from the leaf, kerosene (or gasoline) is used as the extractor, then sulfuric acid is added to suck out the kerosene which sulfuric acid acts as a "solvent"? Do both chemical sulfuric acid and kerosene dry out and fade into thin air, yielding cocaine that is "human grade" and no one's lips or internals gets burned with the sulfuric acid and or kerosene?

Lastly, how does it turn white? The final product on the youtube videos are NOT white. Is the cutting process what turns cocaine white as it is cut with a white powder substance?
 
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It ends up white after being cleaned up and converted to the hcl salt..also the comments about cocaine users of the 70s-80s being more attractive has more to do with the type of social circles that used coke like the privileged rich and beautiful and the cocaine was probably of higher purity. It's the cheaper prices of cocaine and freebase these days that has led to it being less classy more junky
 
Pure sulfuric acid is just as dangerous as you'd think. It's not used ina pure form for fruit preservation; instead sulfur trioxide/dioxide gas is used which reacts with trace water to form small amounts of sulfuric acid.

Sulfuric acid is... well, it's damaging because it's a strong acid. If you take sulfuric acid and you neutralize it with any sort of base, you make a salt which is much less harmful because you take away the acididty. For instance you can turn hydrogen chloride (a gaseous acid vapour) into sodium chloride (table salt) by neutralizing it... the same thing happens with drugs.

Sulfuric acid isn't used as a solvent and is not used to "get the kerosene out" it's used to form a water-soluble and oil insoluble salt from the water-insoluble and oil soluble base alkaloid.
 
Cocaine is it's own specific chemical with it's own specific structure atomically. The plant itself I believe contains approx. 2% dry weight cocaine in it's leaves as insecticide. When it is processed with all those chemicals like HCL, NaOH, Acetone etc those are just used to extract the base coca from the plant and convert it into its salt for Cocaine hydrochloride which is water soluble and can be snorted or injected. Now the reason vinegar or the like isn't used as an acid is two fold. First it is a weak acid, it's not a full proton donor so the base coca would have trouble being converted into it's soluble salt. Second vinegar is like 5% acetic acid so it's mostly water and adding a bunch of water to your product would make cleaning it up a bitch. The other chemicals you mentioned in your post I'm not to sure about, they could be structurally related to cocaine and found in the plant as natural alkaloids or maybe they're metabolites passed through the human body as it breaks down cocaine after usage.
 
Kerosene and HCl is not even in the product at the end of the process, do you see 10 gallon of Kerosene and HCl in your .5 of coke ??? no. Cause Kerosene evaporate during the extraction and HCl is neutralized by an alkaline product. Only trace will be found if the product is bad. To be honest there is more danger regarding the cutting agent found in street cocaine.
 
cutting agents are usually either speed(if its clean, the smell is a giveaway), ethylphenidate, benzocaine, lidocaine etc.. ive seen a lot of coke go through my friends hands, and a fair bit up my nose, and as someone involved in the fire spitting industry (parrafin/kerosene is used), i can say coke smells more like kerosene than like acid, i imagine they would only use enough acid to get rid of NEARLY ALL of the kerosene, because using more acid to get rid of all the kerosene would leave it tainted with acid as opposed to near-inert kerosene (by comparison to Sulph acid at least, you can wash your mouth out with kerosene to no health risk, just dont swallow)
kerosene also leaves this incredibly annoying fine greasy layer on the skin, similar to the slight greasyness of fresh coke.
 
There more then RCs or local anesthesic in coke, some even put powdered glass in it or other stuff you don't even want to know. Anything that is white and powdered is a good cutting agent for stupid reseller.
 
If you're gonna worry about stuff in your coke I'd start with levamisole and other intentionally added cutting agents, not some tiny amounts of the chemicals used in production.
 
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