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What is wrong with the MDMA available today?

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GUYS! I got the email back from the lab, here is what they wrote:

"Hi ____,

We just received the results of the two MDMA samples back from the lab.

1) Brown
qNMR: 85% MDMA
MDP2P present in GC-MS analysis

2) Colourless
qNMR: 91% MDMA
No other compounds present

This is all the information that they were able to provide.
I hope this helps in your search for the answer!"

For anyone not familiar, the "Brown" is the MehDMA, and "Colourless" is the MagicDMA.

So, disappointing that they couldn't provide more info than this, but I'm thankful that they helped out in whatever ways they could. I could send them an email and try to pry for more info if you all think its worth a short

I think that MDP2P has GOT to be the culprit then, having just 6% more MDMA in the MagicDMA would not make that world of a difference dose for dose.

This raises a couple questions to me; what makes up the other 9% in the Colourless sample? What makes up the other 15% in the Brown MehDMA (unless its all MDP2P)?

The other question is, does MDMA made from MDP2P also produce that classic safrole smell? Because the Brown MehDMA reeks of it.
 
While I believe fentanyl analogs still could be the culprit I'd argue impurities is still our most likely scenario. To believe its fentanyl analogs is to believe there is one very large conspiracy afoot which I'm not sure I'm ready to believe yet. Not that "they" wouldn't pull something like this, but I feel we'd be hearing of more cases than we do currently. I'm personally keeping it as a maybe, I've been wrong many times before so at this point I'm open to all theories.

And awesome to see they finally got back Hilo! Very interesting and does make me wonder.. I'm curious how much of the sample was MDP2P.. And I wouldn't say it's the problem yet although its possible. It could compete with MDMA for receptor sites.

My guess on the other 8.9% for the MagicDMA is either water weight (hydrated polymorph) that is caught in the crystal lattice or impurities/compounds that are less common and they don't have references for or are familiar with enough. I'm thinking the latter as I can guarantee most labs can't see it all.

As for the smell of MDP2P, yes to many it can smell like safrole. It's supposed to be like safrole but more "spice-like." It's a slight difference most probably wouldn't notice.

Indigo has had lackluster product that had MDP2Pol and now you've had lackluster product with product that had MDP2P... We may be on to something.

Also Glubra didn't you analyze a sample (good mdma) that had a small amount of MDP2P or am I remembering wrong?

-GC
 
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Hilopsilo said:
So, disappointing that they couldn't provide more info than this, but I'm thankful that they helped out in whatever ways they could. I could send them an email and try to pry for more info if you all think its worth a short
Click to expand...
It would be useful to get the MDMA type and salt type out of them as well as the NMR spectrograms themselves.
By "salt type" I mean e.g. hydrochloride, phosphate, tartrate, citrate, sulfate, etc...
By "MDMA type" I mean the structural isomers such as 2,3-MDMA vs. 3,4-MDMA.
Whoever wrote this reply should be ashamed for just writing "MDMA" without disambiguating it further.

NMR does not differentiate between enantiomers, so there is not use asking them about them.

Generally, that is not much info provided and significant ratio of constituents was not defined.

Hilopsilo said:
I think that MDP2P has GOT to be the culprit then, having just 6% more MDMA in the MagicDMA would not make that world of a difference dose for dose.
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Yes, 6% is not much dosewise. Some of it could be just water...
MDP2P is the major precursor for 3,4-MDMA. It has a smell resembling sassafras oil and licorice and it spontaneously decomposes at room temperature.
I don't think MDP2P is psychoactive, but don't quote me on it. I know nothing about the psychoactivity of the Glycidate.

Any sample of Ecstasy containing a significant amount of MDP2P can be considered as poorly purified, possibly leaving many other impurities therein.

Hilopsilo said:
This raises a couple questions to me; what makes up the other 9% in the Colourless sample? What makes up the other 15% in the Brown MehDMA (unless its all MDP2P)?
Click to expand...
Those are the good questions.
The proper way to attack this problems is to wash out 3,4-MDMA and MDP2P from a large sample and sent the remainder for analysis.

Hilopsilo said:
The other question is, does MDMA made from MDP2P also produce that classic safrole smell? Because the Brown MehDMA reeks of it.
Click to expand...
Pure 3,4-MDMA Hydrochloride does NOT have a smell, but many of its precursors do.
MDP2P is one of the pungent precursors that smells like sassafras oil and licorice.
So, poorly purified Ecstasy can smell of its precursors and MDP2P is the precursor that does have the smell you mention.
 
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Glubrahnum said:
It would be useful to get the MDMA type and salt type out of them as well as the NMR spectrograms themselves.
By "salt type" I mean e.g. hydrochloride, phosphate, tartrate, citrate, sulfate, etc...
By "MDMA type" I mean the structural isomers such as 2,3-MDMA vs. 3,4-MDMA.
Whoever wrote this reply should be ashamed for just writing "MDMA" without disambiguating it further.

NMR does not differentiate between enantiomers, so there is not use asking them about them.

Generally, that is not much info provided and significant ratio of constituents was not defined.


Yes, 6% is not much dosewise. Some of it could be just water...
MDP2P is the major precursor for 3,4-MDMA. It has a smell resembling sassafras oil and licorice and it spontaneously decomposes at room temperature.
I don't think MDP2P is psychoactive, but don't quote me on it. I know nothing about the psychoactivity of the Glycidate.

Any sample of Ecstasy containing a significant amount of MDP2P can be considered as poorly purified, possibly leaving many other impurities therein.


Those are the good questions.
The proper way to attack this problems is to wash out 3,4-MDMA and MDP2P from a large sample and sent the remainder for analysis.


Pure 3,4-MDMA Hydrochloride does NOT have a smell, but many of its precursors do.
MDP2P is one of the pungent precursors that smells like sassafras oil and licorice.
So, poorly purified Ecstasy can smell of its precursors and MDP2P is the precursor that does have the smell you mention.
Click to expand...

I'll send them a reply tomorrow morning to see if I can squeeze anymore information out of them, because now this feels a bit inconclusive, I had my hopes up that we were gonna squash this whole thing right then n' there.

On the bright side, I think this rules out ANY hypotheses that its "just weak", because thats what the chemists all thought was the case initially as well as the person I spoke with on the phone about the FTIR testing at the festival.

As for my own purposes, I'll probably continue bringing them MDMA samples I come across, get the free NMR and whatever information they're willing to share to find patterns. I recently acquired a sample that is purple/grey with no smell, might bring that in soon. I'll share anything I find out in here.

G_Chem said:
As for the smell of MDP2P, yes to many it can smell like safrole. It's supposed to be like safrole but more "spice-like." It's a slight difference most probably wouldn't notice.

Indigo has had lackluster product that had MDP2Pol and now you've had lackluster product with product that had MDP2P... We may be on to something.

Also Glubra didn't you analyze a sample (good mdma) that had a small amount of MDP2P or am I remembering wrong?

-GC
Click to expand...

To my understanding it either goes, safrole -> MDP2P -> MDMA, or MDP2Pol -> MDP2P -> MDMA, right? So even though mine had MDP2P, theres no way to know whether the MDP2P came from safrole or MDP2P (right again?). You'd think there would also be MDP2P leftover if MDP2Pol is leftover in the first place. Maybe theres something wrong with product created from MDP2Pol.

I think thats a good thing to define though; just because the MDMA has that classic safrole smell, it does NOT mean it is safrole derived since MDP2P created from MDP2Pol also has more or less the same scent. There are a lot of listings claiming their product is safrole derived using the scent as proof.
 
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Hilopsilo said:
Been digging around the internet looking for other information on all of this, found some interesting stuff on dnstars, here are some things that have been said somewhat recently:

https://dnstars.vip/t/question-regarding-mdma-high/11317/12

https://dnstars.vip/t/is-cola-mandy...cool-name-to-make-up-for-unpure-stuff/2719/21
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Interesting read!

Especially this part:
"A chemist on bluelight tested mdma and found out that its not even pmk glycidate that?s being used its some other stuff which is ridiculously cheap to acquire thus all the really cheap md going about."

Weirdly enough, a few months ago someone had a post on Reddit saying that a big vendor on the darkweb was going to stop selling MDMA due to the fact that apparently someone had found a new method to make MDMA that was insanely cheap and it wasn't worth even making/selling anymore for them. Not sure how true this is.
 
PMK glycidate is certainly why you can get the stuff for unbelievably cheap, like so cheap you'd think its a scam (don't think I'm allowed to give price here).

Is PMK gly why some of it sucks? Science and chemistry say no, but its possible. I wish the NM R had provided more info about precursors leftover, maybe would have been able to tell which batch was made from what. And if both were from PMK gly, then we could set that theory to rest permanently, if the good stuff was safrole and the bad was pmk gly, maybe we'd be onto something.

All I can think of right now is that, with the MehDMA, the purity was lower (strike 1), there was leftover precursor, (strike 2), whats strike 3? They gave me very little info, but what little they gave me only pointed to the MehDMA being worse, so it makes me wonder what else is inferior about it that we don't know.
 
Hilopsilo said:
Is PMK Gly why some of it sucks? Science and chemistry say no, but its possible.
Click to expand...
It is improbable but possible.
The biggest difference between MDP2P Glycidate and the naked MDP2P is that the former has enantiomers and the latter does not. This distinction matters only if someone found a simple (and cheap) way to convert MDP2P Glycidate directly into 3,4-MDMA.
By "directly" I mean: without going through the MDP2P step. I have never read about such direct conversion but the lack of evidence of its existence is not an evidence of its non-existence.

I am lacking knowledge about the psychoactivity of MDP2P Glycidate and MDP2PPol, but if it is a contaminant it has to be a potent one. There are not that many substances that are active in microgram doses. LSD and Fentanyl analogs are the few candidates that come to mind...but LSD does not produce the observed effects, so I think it can be excluded.

If there is a potent contaminant present then it must affect the Norepinephrine pharmacology which is responsible for Mydriasis and it must interfere with 2-CB activity if that fact can be confirmed.

Miosis (the constriction of pupils) - the opposite of Mydriasis is caused by handful of drugs.
Read about them here.
 
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What about N-tert-butoxycarbonyl-MDMA or MDP-2-P-ol ?
I think the best thing to do is to look into reports completed by authority's in relation to seizure of materials recently, this should indicate what the labs are using or looking to use today.

These ones caught my eye as interesting, could there possibly be a one step method from these substances, like a reduction for the first ?
Could this be possibly why that we are seeing better quality stuff in patches ? Maybe they are starting to head away from the PMK-Cly due to it be more highly monitored and such.

Like I said before, I'm not chemist or anything so I have no idea.
 
Here is the link to my meh-DMA:

https://www.ecstasydata.org/view.php?id=2644

This is the product I have had access to since 2005 or so. All experiences consistently not quite right. Lower empathy, sleepy, cold, no rush on come-up, sick comedown, minimal eye dilation etc. Lack of desired effects confirmed by other people, including an individual who had been on a 5 year break.
 
I didn't realize that result was 5:1 ratio MDMA to precursor, thats a hefty amount of precursor. My crappy stuff had significant precursor too, we can't determine exactly why, but I think its safe to say; significant amounts of leftover precursor = poorly made = other things likely wrong with it = inferior experience. I guess thats a first step in eliminating/avoiding bad stuff, get a batch tested and if they pick up precursor leftovers ditch it.

How is MDP2P different from MDP2Pol? Do either tell us anything about if it was made from PMK gly or safrole? Everyone on DNStars is convinced that shit made from PMK gly just sucks and the safrole is the good stuff, plain and simple. Not much science behind that nor can anyone really prove which is made from which AFAIK.
 
F.U.B.A.R. said:
I fuckin love the term 'MehDMA'. Inspired... =D
Click to expand...

Hahahahaha =D

Has anybody tried contacting somebody who could lead a proper investigation into this? I was thinking of trying to contact somebody like David Nutt, or somebody from MAPS.
 
I have emailed MAPS - no reply. I have also emailed Energy Control. They replied, but then did not follow up.

My meh-DMA was not made from safrole or PMK. I was told it was made by another synthesis route. Not clear on what that is.
 
Hilopsilo said:
...I guess thats a first step in eliminating/avoiding bad stuff, get a batch tested and if they pick up precursor leftovers ditch it...
Click to expand...

Ideally we would be able to determine an accessible and relatively easy method of purification so as to not just ditch MehDMA...
 
Tranced said:
Hahahahaha =D

Has anybody tried contacting somebody who could lead a proper investigation into this? I was thinking of trying to contact somebody like David Nutt, or somebody from MAPS.
Click to expand...

MAPS ignored me too. I understand their busy, and at first glance we seem like a bunch of babbling idiots LOL

Goodwalt said:
Is it Just me or that lab analysis was ver poor? I would ask for more details!
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If you're talking about the "NMR" I had done, yes, they gave me hardly any info and won't return my emails. It was free, so oh well. Looking into paid services now.
 
Professor Nutt seems like a pretty stand up guy, I'm trying to get his email.
 
psy997 said:
Ideally we would be able to determine an accessible and relatively easy method of purification so as to not just ditch MehDMA...
Click to expand...

Someone on reddit suggested an acetone wash to get rid of MDP2P and the like.
 
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