What is the beauty in death?

[alcy42]

this is how i want to die. period...... i want to be shot off into space, in some sort of ship that will allow me to survive 20 plus years... i want to do a close fly by of every planet and their moons..

i DONT WANT TO DIE a death
-by shark
-by lion
-by drowning
-by fire
- by jumping off a building (ill change my mind halfway down)
- by a scumbag from behind
- by the governments hands

 

[TheAppleCore]

i am one of the biggest critics of the sanitisation of our mortality, as i feel that it creates unrealistic disparities between the inner and outer worlds which results in unhealthy mental states, but to compensate with such explicit and brief imagery will generally only further those unhealthy mental states.

I think I see where you're going with this, and I like it -- would you care to elaborate on the concept "sanitization of morality"?

I do not care about hapiness or longevity - I only care about not being in pain.

If you think about it, pain is a self-catalyzing process -- pain motivates us to protect our own existence (except in the most extreme cases), which is inevitably filled with pain.



I have always been fascinated with the beauty in sadness, and loss. For me, it is very real. I first discovered the concept when I felt myself attracted to the profoundly dark and sad melodies and chords that could be heard in music.

Excellent thread idea, Percussion.

 

[Jamshyd]

^ You know I have immense respect for you .

But here, I have to say that IMO, the only motivation pain provides is of the dramatic kind that has people engaging in wallowing in self-pity and ego-masturbation.

Wouldn't you think so?

But then again it appears my views on this are a bit weird, maybe even pathological in the eyes of some. I honestly would rather not exist than exist and suffer.

 

[qwe]

pain is becoming extinct due to technology

physical and emotional pain were a simple fact of life, to an extent we may not be able to imagine, centuries ago

the human race is changing, and we have to account for that change...

pain has no use today. i'm not saying prohibit people from feeling pain... but involuntary pain, for emotionally intelligent people, does not help them grow or progress or contribute... the opposite usually

 

[TheAppleCore]

^ You know I have immense respect for you .

But here, I have to say that IMO, the only motivation pain provides is of the dramatic kind that has people engaging in wallowing in self-pity and ego-masturbation.

Wouldn't you think so?

But then again it appears my views on this are a bit weird, maybe even pathological in the eyes of some. I honestly would rather not exist than exist and suffer.

Well, the way I see it, if you consider the definition of "pain" as constituting all aversive or negative human emotion, then it must ultimately motivate self-protective behavior in some way. I'm seeing this from an evolutionary perspective -- humans that adapted to these negative emotions were the only survivors, hence we all experience pain.

Take loneliness. Anyone that feels the pain of being lonely intuitively knows that they can alleviate the negative feeling by making social bonds; conversely, anyone that is socially well-accepted intuitively knows that if they isolate themselves, they will feel lonely. Thus, in order to avoid that pain, people socially network, and via strength in numbers, out-survive their sociopathic peers, and live to reproduce offspring -- a new generation bound to feel loneliness in their time. A never-ending cycle.


Of course, by some weakness in the human race which I have yet to account for, pain will often result in ego-masturbation and self-delusion. During one LSD trip I had awhile ago, I suddenly became aware of the sickening extent of my own self-delusion, and spent the entire trip trying to understand the fascinating phenomenon. How is it that we were given the ability to turn a blind eye to reality whenever it pleases?

 

[TheAppleCore]

A few more points:

death is beautiful cuz it gives meaning to life

This is what I tend to believe, in a nutshell. Reality is meaningful because it contains both life, and lifeless void.

i DONT WANT TO DIE a death
...
- by jumping off a building (ill change my mind halfway down)
...

This made me laugh -- I thought the same thing!


Also, I encourage everyone to click the link in the OP. It's not gruesome or gory -- they are deaths by long falls from the Golden Gate bridge. Suicide is very real, and the film clip is just an acknowledgement of the reality. I found it quite thought-provoking.

 

[qwe]

This is what I tend to believe, in a nutshell. Reality is meaningful because it contains both life, and lifeless void.

a void later is not required to make what i feel now meaningful/important.

whatever happens after death, this'll have been a cool ride. how to put that ride in context with the universe... we may or may not find out, maybe before or maybe after death.

 

[L2R]

I think I see where you're going with this, and I like it -- would you care to elaborate on the concept "sanitization of mortality"?

What i mean by this is that in the (global) north we are generally kept away from death, both in the form of the food we eat and in the process of dealing with departed family. we do this to avoid upsetting or causing discomfort to our children, which we see as unnecessary, but this sanitisation from the death process consequently makes us blind to our own mortality. we are raised without a matured conception of death which creates the disparity i mentioned.

how then can you know what you are?
how then can you realise the preciousness of every moment?
how then can you prioritise with a level of grounded perspective?

I think most of what troubles us and causes us pain and grief, along with most mental illnesses, would be remedied with this kind of perspective.

 

[helium-4]

Death is the route to ultimate freedom. It is beautiful, but scary obviously because of the unknown. But if you embrace it as the next phase, whether or not there is existence in some form after wards, it becomes just another door. A door to the beginning, but also to the end. How is that not beautiful?

 

[qwe]

^sure unknown is beautiful. but unknown could also be "ugly"...

let's say we are reborn after death, and we are born into someone living a gruesome life in the middle ages (or today)... that's not beautiful imo. the mystery of not knowing could be beautiful in a sense, but once the mystery is solved (if even possible) it's more of an ugly thing in such a case

so, you cannot say it is the route to "ultimate freedom". we may wind up somewhere, after death, where the word freedom may not even have any meaning anyway...

that's the whole point of saying that it is "unknown"

 

[helium-4]

True, but being an agnostic who leans to atheism. I find that to highly unlikely. Though I will say that in the case that you would be reborn, the old you wouldn't have any sort of recognition of the past life. You are essentially repeating the same process. I understand your point that implying that there is the unknown means that a definition of what it could potentially be is a useless device. But wouldn't you say there is split second where "your existence" neither here or there in the middle of a transition to a next life? Or is it just a instant process. In the case the there needs to be some sort of transfer, even the split second imo is an example of true freedom. As with no existence, there is no limitations.

 

[qwe]

True, but being an agnostic who leans to atheism. I find that to highly unlikely

the reborn scenario was one possibility out of trillions (infinite?) that could await us after death... speaking as an atheist agnostic.

Though I will say that in the case that you would be reborn, the old you wouldn't have any sort of recognition of the past life.

we obviously don't remember our previous lives, if said lives exist... but there's no reason to discount *any* memories or unique qualities being taken with us. (though, speaking as an empiricist, we do witness our memories/personality dissipate when we die... they are stored in our brain as data, and require energy to be sustained. so whatever may come with us, would be intimately related to whatever part of consciousness we do not yet understand or have any empirical data on)

But wouldn't you say there is split second where "your existence" neither here or there in the middle of a transition to a next life? Or is it just a instant process. In the case the there needs to be some sort of transfer, even the split second imo is an example of true freedom. As with no existence, there is no limitations.

according to this... unconsciousness itself is complete freedom. are you an opiate/benzo/alcy person?

 

[helium-4]

I adore dreaming, opiates, and dissociatives

 

[Muddle]

all the physical pains in life may be alleviated.

 

[XxVeinityFaiirxX]

Beautiful.

When we die on entheogens, we call it ecstasy, and in all its terror, is there really anything more beautiful? We call orgasms la petit mort. And we honor death with an aesthetic... Baudelaire, Poe, Tim Burton...

Or in AFI's Days of The Phoenix: "I remember when I was told the story of crushed velvet, candle wax, and dried up flowers. The figure on the bed all dressed up in roses, calling, beckoning to sleep, offering a dream."

I got to thinking about this when I saw this video of people committing suicide. It brought me to tears, and I was actually muttering 'no, no' to the people standing on the railing... and then when I saw the last shot, it occurred to me that this was the most beautiful thing I had ever seen.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gSDIa-cHeIo

It's the feeling of beautiful sadness. Is that sick? The same way we enjoy being scared on halloween, sadness has this exquisite and beautiful quality to it. What is that? Why?

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Wow, that was one of the most beautiful things I've ever read.. Not many people understand how chillingly beautiful death is.. It is not scary.. {I am not afraid}--like most.
I just had to comment though..on this. Thx "percussion_is_free"

xoxo,
VeinityFaiir

 

[CoffeeDrinker]

Death is the ultimate "who gives a shit?"
How much more needs to be said?
I suppose a lot more if you are opposed to swearing, but if not, there ya go. That's simply all there is to it.

 

[CoffeeDrinker]

^ You know I have immense respect for you .

But here, I have to say that IMO, the only motivation pain provides is of the dramatic kind that has people engaging in wallowing in self-pity and ego-masturbation.

Wouldn't you think so?

But then again it appears my views on this are a bit weird, maybe even pathological in the eyes of some. I honestly would rather not exist than exist and suffer.

but suffering is existence, man

Are you sure it's not just the drugs(whichever ones at the moment) talking when you say you'd rather die than suffer? Is that your philosophy, and you are sticking to it?

 

[Jamshyd]

I'm seeing this from an evolutionary perspective -- humans that adapted to these negative emotions were the only survivors, hence we all experience pain.

Which begs the question... why is survival so important?

 

[Jamshyd]

but suffering is existence, man

Are you sure it's not just the drugs(whichever ones at the moment) talking when you say you'd rather die than suffer? Is that your philosophy, and you are sticking to it?

Um no, if anything, it is the lack of drugs.

And yes, that IS my philosophy - not only do I stick to it, but I live by it. The ONLY purpose there is to life is to mitigate others's suffering however possible.

The way I see it, existence is, and always has been, overrated.

 

[rangrz]

Not sure what the difference is, but I'm ok with using "homicide" if it somehow feels better. *shrug*

My point is that killing and dying are not the same thing. I mean sorry to state the obvious but it seemed like rangerz may think otherwise...

No the action of killing is separate from the death, but it allows you a very personal and close look at the act of death. One that is very raw and open, not clinical and cold like someone flat lining in the ICU, not distant and removed like a video, but being right there, hearing, smelling, seeing and feeling the body go though its end of life struggle.

its not beautiful, its repulsive.