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What is science to you?

I think some luck is just lucky and some we influence. There is a saying that goes Luck is infatuated with the efficient. I've been able to take advantage of a certain amount of luck just because I had some of my shit together and was paying attention.
 
Thanks for the input, szuko. One question though.



How did you come to this conclusion if there's no clear scientific consensus on whether that works or not? A much simpler and logical explanation is based on the many biases a human's mind is usually prone to, especially confirmation bias.

Through repeated examples in my own life. People would say I am "lucky" as in I tend to have good fortune but one must be on their path and actively trying to get what they want. I find the more energy I put into something the more likely a "lucky" outcome will be. Yes some stuff is fortuitous due to right place right time but even that is influenced by you.

Id be open to having my mind on the subject changed as I am constantly accepting new ideas, couldnt be who i was if i didnt, but as of now if i want luck i go create some :)
 
What energy are you talking about? Energy as in more thought, consideration, planning and so on? Or energy as in "I reaallllly hope it works! *prays*" - I don't know how else to summarize that.

Of course there's always the randomness, you can never forget about that.
 
Refers to every thing in a sense. The assumed belief you can do anything because your human coupled with the idea that you can shape the universe and of course the intrinsic idea that your both lucky and skilled.

Biggest example right now for me is I want to get back to college in 2 years I know if I keep talking about it and thinking about it it will happen the way I say it will. It isn't born or luck or anything but I think of it like a laser if I focus on a goal I will burn away all that blocks it over time and focusing on that goal creates luck for the situation.

Of course there's random chance which is why I keep saying I could go outside and find the 30 grand I need to both pay off my debt and go back but it's more likely I will get their through effort over time, both active and passive (praying I guess though I don't do that)
 
Science for me is the process of formally defining models of aspects of the physical environment, with the qualitative criterion, that a majority of the people that devote themselves to the same aspects, agree with your model.

[...]

So my questions to the audience are:

-what purpose does science have in your world view?

Ideally it serves as a rational confirmation or correction mechanism of spiritual intuition.

-how does scientific knowledge affect your spiritual or philosophical beliefs? If it does, then how do you deal with situations where scientific evidence contradicts your beliefs? (assuming it happens)

Successful cloning of living beings kind of challenges the assumption of quasi infinite reincarnation of karmically conditioned streams of interconnected energy, but it does not contradict it.

-do you think the world would be better off without science? Why?

No. It would be better off without propaganda. Unfortunately today (or forever dunno) science is often abused as a propaganda tool because of its ability to create artificial demand and hence inluence economic growth rate and stock exchange rates.
 
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I've typed a few essays on this then deleted them already. I need a real keyboard and internet connection for this one instead of this iPad nonsense. The following kinda encapsulates how I feel about it. Along your lines Ziiirp

Science is a (useful) proxy for the direct experience of truth.
 
Here's a test, unless someone can tell you exactly what fluoride IS. They have no business having any opinion on it one way or the other.


.

this is the game i play with shrinks when they try to prescribe me meds. if they have no idea of the chemical structure of the med, and can't explain very clearly its pharmacodynamics, they are not qualified to prescribe it to me
 
-what purpose does science have in your world view?
Science gives me new drugs and more smoking material. So I like science %)
-how does scientific knowledge affect your spiritual or philosophical beliefs? If it does, then how do you deal with situations where scientific evidence contradicts your beliefs? (assuming it happens)
If I get high then it doesn't matter anymore right =D

-do you think the world would be better off without science? Why?
Man if there were no science we would be really fucked. That shit only works bc we have all science man. No science no drugs ;)
 
Can anyone provide, or does anyone have a link to a good description of the scientific method? I know the gist of it is hypothesis -> experiment -> peer review -> theory, but I feel like I might be missing some details. :)

-how does scientific knowledge affect your spiritual or philosophical beliefs? If it does, then how do you deal with situations where scientific evidence contradicts your beliefs? (assuming it happens)

Scientific evidence can't possibly contradict my beliefs. I see both science and spirituality as the study of the natural world -- philosophy and spirituality, to me, is the investigation of aspects of life which are not measurable and quantifiable, such as our subjective experience of things. Science seems to deal with more simple, objective metrics like mass, velocity, pressure, etc.

For example, I believe in some kind of God or higher power, because my experience is that life is basically good. It's really hard to objectively measure how "good" life is, so I can't possibly see science ever contradicting my belief in a higher power, but if I could figure out a way to express my subjective feeling of divinity in quantifiable terms, and then science disproved that hypothesis, I would immediately stop believing in God, or at least be forced to change my definition of God.

-do you think the world would be better off without science? Why?

Knowledge is power, so I can't see how science could pose a threat, unless results are maliciously manipulated.
 
To me, I suppose science is just perpetual indulgence in describing nature.

Also, what's more powerful than knowledge is the application of knowledge.

:D I love you guys.
 
Can anyone provide, or does anyone have a link to a good description of the scientific method? I know the gist of it is hypothesis -> experiment -> peer review -> theory, but I feel like I might be missing some details. :)

What exactly is unclear? The scientific method is basically a way of describing reality based on observable and verifiable phenomena. It is arriving at a description of the world by using logic to explain something that can be observed (including experiments). The scientific method encompasses everything that can be described in that way. The important aspect is the ability to show/reproduce the basis for your argument. For example, you can show that igniting a hydrogen and oxygen gas mixture will results in the formation of water, and you can describe the process based on what you and any other person can observe - that counts as science. Saying that "I spoke to god yesterday, therefore god exists" doesn't count as science, because there is no way to verify that claim.

It's actually a very important question, because a lot of people don't really understand what science is about. It is important to understand that science is our attempt to describe every aspect of reality that you can verify. It's not some isolated thing that people do for the lols, and which is only concerned with one part of reality.
 
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If you allow me to share my scattered thoughts here:

(...) a lot of people don't really understand what science is about. It is important to understand that science is our attempt to describe every aspect of reality that you can verify. It's not some isolated thing that people do for the lols, and which is only concerned with one part of reality.

I agree that this happens. I think that this misconception is an unfortunate popular idea of what is science. e.g. Insofar as you through trial and error get a recipe just right, or make small tweaks in the seasoning to further perfect it, you are being as scientific as it gets, towards cooking in this case. Perhaps these prejudices against and misconceptions of science are a reaction of the loose, misuse of the word by some other people — indeed I would say "science" is a loaded word, in the sense that its incidental connotation gets in the way of what it truly is. I would go as far as saying that there are people out there that "use" "science" to fill the religion blank. I will not be able to articulate this quite as well as I would like to but here I am not talking about say, verifying your hypotheses as you go and having a per se "scientific" approach towards solving the matters in life but rather the far too prodigal use of "this is SCIENCE, so I am right and you are wrong!!" by some who think (in which case the science in question had not been verified by them but rather just appeared in some arguably credible source and in the hypothetical situation was just embraced to fit their point of view — had it not, it would have been overlooked) — this is all quite subtle, but I trust the readers to make up for the blanks I leave.
There are also some who are not fond of breaking down and explaining (some) things. I do agree that emotionless analysis does indeed destroy any sort of fun or mystical aspect of the given object, and we do want to have our fun, however I think it is one's own duty to resolve this philosophical conflict for unfortunately we are not children being overlooked by an all-caring father and there are things that for the sake of our survival and well-being, must be broken down and understood — indeed, it is even easier than that: one doesn't even have to directly participate in the dissection of the objects they hold dear to enjoy technological progress! —; it is just like being against research on medicine because it is intervening on the natural way of things, which is something I can imagine having happened in the past and evidently has its present day analogues. Also tangentially related there are the ones who assert "[insert psychoactive plant] is good because it is natural, [insert synthetic drug] is bad because it is man-made!".

On the "TO YOU" aspect of the title question, while I, shortly said, "approve of science" I have personally never been MUCH interested in the natural sciences, my curiosity having always been more directed towards the eidetic. Which brings me to (at the risk of making a slight derail):

(...) I see both science and spirituality as the study of the natural world -- philosophy and spirituality, to me, is the investigation of aspects of life which are not measurable and quantifiable, such as our subjective experience of things. Science seems to deal with more simple, objective metrics like mass, velocity, pressure, etc.

Which are my thoughts exactly on the matter. I however don't believe that these things (objects of the interest of philosophy and spirituality) are inherently[\I] unmeasurable (I know it might be that you didn't intend to imply that; I am not nitpicking here, just enjoying the opportunity to express my thoughts on the matter), but rather as [I now see that] you said, far too complex and intricate for our thick, blunt (modern) tools. Incidentally, additionally, the objects of our interest in philosophy often escape our own words[\I]. So the very act of translating the results of our investigations back into the common language we all share, as well as the ability to effectively communicate — both the expressing one's own ideas in a fashion their interlocutors understand and in turn listening and understanding the other's ideas — are two tasks of their own, to which one could dedicate their whole life in perfecting, something which does not afflict natural sciences, and thus is (IMO) a major paradigm here.

So for a proper response to the OP:
- What purpose does science have in your worldview?
The progress of society, the betterment of life, satisfying curiosity;
- How does scientific knowledge affect your spiritual or philosophical beliefs?
I make TheAppleCore's words mine;
- Do you think the world would be better off without science? Why?
I don't, I am thankful for science. And further I would even have the audacity to say that it is unfair to be against science now that we live comfortably; the first cavemen that made spears and learned how to make food from plants were scientists and it would not have been easy to be against that back then.
 
I would go as far as saying that there are people out there that "use" "science" to fill the religion blank.

This reminds me of the 2-part South Park episode where Cartman freezes himself and goes to the future, and upon awakening he is told that they have eliminated religions from the world, but there are 3 groups who are killing each over whose science is better.
 
Did you see that one (2 actually)? I remember recently you said you'd never really gotten into South Park but someone showed you some good episodes. I've always thought that was one of the better ones from the whole show and that you'd really dig it.
 
Have not. Or maybe. I've seen hours of South Park in two minute snippets over the years. But yeah only recently clicked with me though I forget about it. I get restless watching TV.
 
Gotta say I love this thread. Science is something I think of quite often in regards to philosophy. Like someone else already said, I view those two subjects to be essentially just different aspects of the same process. Or even the same process applied to different categories. One being the examination of things more or less outside of ourselves and the other being an examination of our psyches or our concepts of ourselves in relation to internal/external processes.

In a way I don't view either study to be 'set in stone'. Take dreams or even altered states of consciousness for example. In both states things can happen that would seem impossible by the laws of reality that we're currently in but at the time they seem perfectly normal. For example, I like thinking of the theory of relativity as simply that, your point of view relative to your interpretation of your surroundings. That leads to a dynamic process that explains the overwhelming feeling of 'being one with the universe' that is often experienced.

If that is the case, than you essentially dictate what your surroundings are based on your perspective/feelings of said surroundings. Like every atom is a tuning fork bouncing every interpretation in relation to the hypothetical 'us' back and forth. That theory ties together the core principles of most religions plus also a lot of major scientific theories too. Actually that would make anything that you can imagine possible.

I actually have most of the science behind that worked out. Using observable physical phenomena you can actually turn one beam of light into literally any configuration while creating an unlimited amount of 'levels' for consciousness to inhabit.

BUUT this is my perspective. I believe everybody's perspective is valid. Some perspectives may not include all the same data therefore leading the to draw different conclusions but we're all always just processing truth. Well the truth as we know it. I may be completely wrong but that's my admittedly limited perspective.

Oh and I gotta share this quote since I saved it and randomly came across it while reading this thread-

The mind is its own place, and the Places inhabited by the insane and the exceptionally gifted are so different from the places where ordinary men and women live, that there is little or no common ground of memory to serve as a basis for understanding or fellow feeling. Words are uttered, but fail to enlighten. The things and events to which the symbols refer belong to mutually exclusive realms of experience.

^that's where I feel the disconnect in peoples understanding originates.
 
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