What is Chaos Magik/Magick?

[rangrz]

rangrz, my understanding of magick is that you affect an inner change in your own mindset, so that you interact differently with other people and the outer world, and reap different results from it.

Is that not, broadly, what most people do when learning/working?

Don't you change your mindset, MDAO between the act you treating a patient who is nude, and when you're seeing your S/O naked? With a vastly different interaction between the people?

Is that magick or elementary social skills?

 

[Mu-ham-mad]

I would never deny that alchemical transmutation is possible. I've done it myself

Cool! - Do expand on your transmutation - or are you talking about alpha decay, or some such?


[I also love the fact that everyone's using "tripe" these days! Speaking of which:]

I don't think it's a topic worthy of a place in PS, just my opinion.

I don't think that you are worthy of a place in PS, just my opinion.

 

[webbykevin]

Man you are the biggest troll I've ever seen on this forum.

 

[rangrz]

I am talking neutron activation and similar processes that take place in accelerators. How the fuck do you think we make those artificial heavy elements, or radioisotopes for cancer therapy. etc?

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_transmutation

 

[yagecero]

I've never practised Chaos Magick, but I've read a bit about it. Apparently, Austin Osman Spare (if my memory serves me correctly) was a contemporary of Aleister Crowley. At first, Crowley found him quite fascinating but, after some time, ended up denouncing him and throwing him out of the O.T.O. Spare went on to develop Chaos Magick, which is essentially a form of auto-sex magick with a personalised alphabet involved.

Sex Magick is, of course, tantric sex modified in a manner that purportedly uses the libido (kundalini energy - if that's your bag) to affect change in the external environment. Both tanric sex and sex magick claim to put you in touch with higher powers, while the former will apparently make the connection between you and your partner much stronger (I do subscribe to this) and more in touch with the world around you; the latter will supposedly do the same thing, while (again, supposedly) allowing you to affect change in the "outside world" through the manipulation of this energy.

I discovered Crowley while reading a lot about tantra and yoga around ten years ago. While he was undoubtedly a complete and utter nut-job, I found his writings on the above two topics far better than traditional texts. His writing, in these instances, is clean and pragmatic without any spiritual hoodoo (Ex. Book IV). The rest (save for a few interesting philosophical positions), however, does require a tinfoil hat.

Back on topic. This is all I remember about Chaos Magick. I can't remember who it is, but there is at least one person on this forum that knows a hell of a lot more about Crowley than me. I would assume that they also know a lot more about Chaos Magick. Jamshyd, maybe? Willow? Erm... I can't remember.

 

[Mu-ham-mad]

I am talking neutron activation and similar processes that take place in accelerators. How the fuck do you think we make those artificial heavy elements, or radioisotopes for cancer therapy. etc?

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_transmutation

Ahhh! Scientist eh?! I am talking about alchemical transmutations and similar processes. How the fuck do you think we make the philosopher's stone used in alchemical transmutations, cancer therapies etc.?

Corrupting the egg with brimstone; allowing it to putrefy; clipping the wings of the hatched bird; allowing it to rejoice in rejuvenated spirits - then taking the spirits away from the stone so that it is raised from death - the spirits being crucified then buried under goose fat -- The Thrice Great.

Probably very similar to what you get up to, I'd imagine.

 

[MyDoorsAreOpen]

Is that not, broadly, what most people do when learning/working?

Don't you change your mindset, MDAO between the act you treating a patient who is nude, and when you're seeing your S/O naked? With a vastly different interaction between the people?

Is that magick or elementary social skills?

The difference is that in your example, the change in my mindset was foisted upon me by outside circumstances beyond my control. In contrast, most rituals and other activities that get labeled 'magick' are internally motivated. The will to adapt a different mindset for engaging the world differently is primary, and predates the situations that make use of it.

 

[Thorns Have Roses]

Willow

Yeah it was Willow, he hasn't been around since like February though.

 

[Tarnum]

Its manifesting what you want through your thoughts and willpower...if you plan something to do, you get it done right? Magick is all about willpower and having the ability to "manifest" it..different forms of meditation take you to an altered state of conscious right? thats what rituals are, and therefore you get more insight on what you want...IMO ofcourse

 

[rangrz]

The difference is that in your example, the change in my mindset was foisted upon me by outside circumstances beyond my control. In contrast, most rituals and other activities that get labeled 'magick' are internally motivated. The will to adapt a different mindset for engaging the world differently is primary, and predates the situations that make use of it.

Is it externally motivated? Is it only cause of the laws that do you it? Does have nothing to do with wanting to be a good physician and that being so necessitates not abusing your patients, and more generally , being objective and thinking about medicine, not sex.

If so, it's an internal motivation. I know my motivation to look at the physical world though the scope of mechanistic naturalism is internal, because I genuinely want to understand the way it works, and not simply because I'll fail my classes.

So, is this magick?

 

[PriestTheyCalledHim]

Its manifesting what you want through your thoughts and willpower...if you plan something to do, you get it done right? Magick is all about willpower and having the ability to "manifest" it..different forms of meditation take you to an altered state of conscious right? thats what rituals are, and therefore you get more insight on what you want...IMO ofcourse

OK thanks this makes sense.

 

[Foreigner]

Chaos magic is just a sub-set of magic. It uses different aspects of many different belief systems that are honed for a specific intention.

I wish people would stop putting a 'k' at the end of magic. It's all magic. Magick is what new age people call it because they want to differentiate it from stage magic, but stage magic arose from real magic in the first place.

Chaos magic seems like koolaid to me. All magic is, is your intention. Use whatever tools, chants, beliefs or implements you want, it's ultimately going to come down to the power of your personal intent. That's it. Anything else is just a psychological aid.

 

[MrGrunge]

From the responses of this thread, "Chaos Magick" sounds like willful psychological manipulation - also known as 'learning' or in some cases 'self-delusion' depending on the methodology and intent of the manipulation.

The human brain is remarkably flexible and can bend just about any way you want it to.

 

[Foreigner]

From the responses of this thread, "Chaos Magick" sounds like willful psychological manipulation - also known as 'learning' or in some cases 'self-delusion' depending on the methodology and intent of the manipulation.

The human brain is remarkably flexible and can bend just about any way you want it to.

Magic is not just about personal psychology. It's about affecting the real world through your personal intent. Though, if your view of the world is purely materialist or reductionist, then this won't make sense to you.

 

[P A]

Magic is not just about personal psychology. It's about affecting the real world through your personal intent. Though, if your view of the world is purely materialist or reductionist, then this won't make sense to you.

As in, governed by simple, commonsensical rules like causality and temporality? Then yeah, I suppose you're right. The idea doesn't make any sense at all. It smacks of a wacky combination of sophistry and superstition.

 

[Foreigner]

As in, governed by simple, commonsensical rules like causality and temporality? Then yeah, I suppose you're right. The idea doesn't make any sense at all. It smacks of a wacky combination of sophistry and superstition.

Causality and temporality exist in the psychic realm, but there may be additional factors at work. You can study phenomena and their interactions in an observational way with repeatable results. The Russians have done this with things like auras. There is also nothing in physics which would preclude psychic abilities from existing. However, the psychic realm also works non-linearly, as is demonstrated with people who know what is about to happen before it happens.

I wasn't referring to materialism and reductionism in a snide way, just as a philosophical construct. If you believe that everything we experience only happens in the brain then of course psychic abilities can't be real to you. That doesn't preclude their validity, however, it just means that reductionism and materialism cannot offer adequate explanations.

 

[Tarnum]

Causality and temporality exist in the psychic realm, but there may be additional factors at work. You can study phenomena and their interactions in an observational way with repeatable results. The Russians have done this with things like auras. There is also nothing in physics which would preclude psychic abilities from existing. However, the psychic realm also works non-linearly, as is demonstrated with people who know what is about to happen before it happens.

I wasn't referring to materialism and reductionism in a snide way, just as a philosophical construct. If you believe that everything we experience only happens in the brain then of course psychic abilities can't be real to you. That doesn't preclude their validity, however, it just means that reductionism and materialism cannot offer adequate explanations.

From what i read and studied, magic and science is very closely related. Maybe magic back then was a way to explain things that were "just true"
But magic is mostly a personal tool i think. Let me know what you think

 

[Foreigner]

From what i read and studied, magic and science is very closely related. Maybe magic back then was a way to explain things that were "just true"
But magic is mostly a personal tool i think. Let me know what you think

I do believe that things I see and experience on psychic levels will one day have a scientific explanation, but it will require science to move beyond materialism and reductionist thought before that will ever happen. Quantum theory proves hopeful in this department. I find North American scientific institutions have ironically been heavily influenced by religion to such an extent that certian topics are taboo to research. Eastern Europe and Russia have no such qualms, it's just hard for me because I don't know Russian and I have to rely on translated material.

There is paranormal research happening in the U.S. right now that is shedding light on a lot of these things in a scientific way, but the mainstream journals will automatically blacklist this material simply because of its subject matter. I get mocked and labeled as a believer in the supernatural, which is really just a way to sidestep the fact that my experience is based on natural phenomena that are contained within the definitions of known reality. The problem (for them) is that they would have to redefine their scientific approach completely in order to study what it is people like me experience.

I do think the unified field theory will have something to do with consciousness being a fundamental constant in the universe, which is what will bridge the gap between "magic" and science.

 

[DOB]

chaos is illusions.... chaos doesnt exist,nothing is random,magic doest exist

so if magic doesnt exist,and chaos doesnt exist,then chaos magic dont exist double time lol

 

[Coolio]

Chaos magic seems like koolaid to me. All magic is, is your intention. Use whatever tools, chants, beliefs or implements you want, it's ultimately going to come down to the power of your personal intent. That's it. Anything else is just a psychological aid.

All magic is irrelevant, subjective delusion.