Bupe What is and what is not true about swallowing buprenorphine?

[pigpen19688]

Haha I thought the title was pretty clear. Whatcha looking for? Maybe I can direct you.

On my computer looking at different threads the word Bupenorphine was cut off so all I saw was "What is and what is not true about swallowing" That's why I was thrown off. Made me curious.

 

[lazylazyjoe]

When will people learn 8mg/day is way,way,way too much. How can any doc, in his right mind, prescribe that.
After induction, 2-3mg/day SL will still block and keep you well. And if you're outpatient, you can plug or shoot 1mg or less.

The largest SL dose available before Suboxone, was literally .2mg. Of course, that's for PM not maintenance, but still..

BTW, personally I've noticed oral bioavailability to be very low. Don't have a number, but it seems lower than what others are saying. I have seen opiate naive people swallow a whole 8mg pill and not even get high. At 10%, that should be a .8mg dose. That would make an opiate naive person puke their guts out.

 

[black kat]

Just to clear some things out,the program IS mandatory,its outpatient and you have to go every day from 9am to 1pm to be given your bupe dose.

For reasons that i consider irrelevant to address right now,i was kinda obligated to go,they started us w 4mgs the first day,8mgs the 2nd and after
2-3 days it was increased to 10-14mgs,that is if you stopped using other opiates at the same time.Thats the standard system around here.

Personally i wasnt ready/able to completely stop using heroin within that time frame,so i was still receiving 8mg doses but after a while i really needed to somehow "bypass"
the bupe to feel the H.Even the first day 4mg dose(which i took sublingually and did everything "by the book") blocked almost any effect the H could have
and after the first snort which made me feel better,the rest of the "lines" were almost completely wasted.

The day after that i decided to try swallowing it for one reason only,to feel the heroin.Obviously,i wanted the bupe NOT to work.

If bupe's bioavailability when swallowed is around 10%,thats around 1mg in your system if you swallow a 8mg pill right?
So i understand that amount should usually have no blocking effect or maybe a short one(lasting less than 10 hours)?

 

[Treefa]

Does the little bit of Suboxone left over in your saliva after 30 min get absorbed at all???

Like SL is really Sublingual AND oral....if you end up swallowing your spit, that is..

 

[flippyed]

I find this quite hard to relate. Subotex and heroin, I don´t think so.

If you shoot, plug, or snort subutex, not suboxone, you get a better rush than heroine. Shooting 8mg gives you about a 15 minute rush that's just like a heroine rush. People who say the naloxone in suboxone is inactive are TOTALLY WRONG! I should know, because I have been on suboxone for 6 years, and subutex for 2. Subutex came out WAYNE before suboxone. The reason the put the naloxone in suboxone was to stop people from shooting it like they were doing with subutex. You have to be in moderate to severe withdrawals to get that 15 long rush from shooting subutex, and you feel super euphoric for about an hr. when you do.

 

[flippyed]

I have 2 mg subotex, crashed and snored. You have similar buzz like heroin.

If you shoot, plug, or snort subutex, not suboxone, you get a better rush than heroine. Shooting 4-8mg gives you about a 15 minute rush that's just like a heroine rush, but last 15 minutes instead of seconds like heroine. People who say the naloxone in suboxone is inactive are TOTALLY WRONG! I should know, because I have been on suboxone for 6 years, and subutex for 2. Subutex came out WAY before suboxone. The reason they put the naloxone in suboxone was to stop people from shooting it like they were doing with subutex. You have to be in moderate to severe withdrawals to get that 15 long rush from shooting subutex, and you feel super euphoric for about an hr. when you do. This is the reason why in Portugal there is a high street abuse rate from buprenorphine. They inject 2mg every other day.

 

[Znegative]

Buprenorphine bioavailabilities:

intravenous: 98%-100%

intranasal: 50%
"Studies of buprenorphine bioavailability have also examined the [...] intranasal (bioavailability, 48%)
"The bioavailability of buprenorphine, HCl (BPP) in sheep after nasal administration of two formulations has been studied. 0.9 mg BPP in 150 microl was administered nasally and compared to 0.6 mg i.v. The test solutions were formulated with 30% polyethylene glycol 300 (PEG 300) and 5% dextrose, respectively. The bioavailability for PEG 300 was 70% (S.D.+/-27%, n=6), whereas the bioavailability for 5% dextrose was 89% (S.D.+/-23%, n=6)."
"Mean intranasal bioavailability was 48.2 +/- 8.35% (mean +/- s.e.m.) of the intravenous value"

intramuscular: 68%
"The observed mean intramuscular bioavailability was 68%"
"Studies of buprenorphine bioavailability have also examined the intramuscular (bioavailability, 50%–100%)"

intrarectal: 54%
"bioavailability of the drug was found to be: [... ]intrarectal (54%)..."
"Relative to the 100% bioavailability from the intraarterial route the mean bioavailabilities were [...] intrarectal, 54%..."

sublingual: ~30%
"Buprenorphine is well absorbed sublingually, with 60% to 70% of the bioavailability of intravenous doses"
"Study results indicate that bioavailability of sublingual buprenorphine is approximately 30%"
"Literature on bioavailability of sublingual buprenorphine presents variable numbers ranging from. 19–58% of the administered dose."
"Relative to the 100% bioavailability from the intraarterial route the mean bioavailabilities were [...] sublingual, 13%"

oral: 10%
"the oral bioavailability for buprenorphine is state to be 10%"
"due to extensive first-pass metabolism, buprenorphine has very poor oral bioavailability (10% of the intravenous route) if swallowed"

intrahepatoportal: 49%

intraduodenal: 9.7%

from the Suboxone/Buprenorphine Megathread

Basically you're getting a tenth of your dose compared to 30-40% of your dose which you would get from taking it sublingually. So in answer to the OP's question, depending on what dose you take, you may be able to get high on your DOC and you may not. It's one of those questions that contains so many variables and differs wildly in each individual that its really impossible to say. I know that when I'm at a 2mg maintenance dose I get at least 90% of the effects from heroin if not all of them. However there have been times when I've been on a dose of 24mg for months, and shot heroin that was so good that it broke through and got me faded as fuck. Now granted that only happened a total of three times (I remember because I was shocked each time and to this day wonder if it was the purity of the heroin, or if the heroin was cut with some super strong fentanyl analogue with a crazy high binding affinity), and the other attempts at getting high at such a dose of suboxone were pointless.

oh, and in regards to shooting subutext and getting a 15 minute long heroin rush, that has never been my experience. In fact I've never noticed a difference between IV subutext and IV suboxone. The naloxone has a weaker affinity at the mu receptor than buprenorphine does, its basically a marketing ploy that's worked out very well for R&B and made their pockets super fat. I'm not calling you a liar, but it makes me wonder how good the heroin you were getting was.

 

[rhun]

oh, and in regards to shooting subutext and getting a 15 minute long heroin rush, that has never been my experience. In fact I've never noticed a difference between IV subutext and IV suboxone. The naloxone has a weaker affinity at the mu receptor than buprenorphine does, its basically a marketing ploy that's worked out very well for R&B and made their pockets super fat. I'm not calling you a liar, but it makes me wonder how good the heroin you were getting was.

My thoughts exactly.