Opioids What happens when you come off of Naltrexone? Does it feel good?

[leojay]

So, the beautiful human brain with it's nature of balancing itself:
We use opioids until our brain makes more receptor sites, more enzymes, and down regulates receptor sites... and we get "so sick bro, i'm fuckin dying, plz lend me $20/front me one."
Sorry, I'm recovering since 2012. Making fun of myself. Withdrawal is hell. Tapering bupe after H rn...
I FULLY SUPPORT EVERYONE TRYING TO GET OFF OF OPIOIDS.
YOU CAN DO IT! WE'RE ALL ROOTING FOR YOU!
A close friend I care about is about to do this. I'm worried it might set her up for failure in the long run.

Would the reverse not be true during naltrexone therapy? Wouldn't the brain do everything in it's power to produce endogenous opioids/make the action potential higher of each binding? I understand it's occupying the receptors. What about the back-end? Wouldn't a signal get lost? When the brain is loaded with opioids but, not getting the expected effect what happens?
At some point it would be in balance, right? Is there a way to know when?
What if you take too much naltrexone for too long? Can you?

So, when naltrexone is gone. Would you be inexplicably happy? Would it get you high to take a hot bath/run/have an orgasm? Could someone get like.. reverse PAWS? Where everything just feels SO GOOD! Then slowly fades into dullness or would it reset everything and just feel "normal"?
If so, why? (I've basic understanding of neuro-chem... u can judge by this post. I'm trying.)
I mean, with therapy and will power I see how these could be good aspects of naltrexone treatment.
I'm not knocking it at all it literally won't allow you to get high and you can't do anything about it. Makes you patient. Like junk jail.
Would the brain not still be imbalanced? Would that wear off and cause problems?

I suppose the idea is to time it right so your therapy allows your brain to return to normal. But, each dose of each medicine is different for every brain it meets. It seems likely the vivitrol shot would just prevent anything from feeling good in that way we like...

I'm missing part of this equation, could someone esplane like i'm 5? I've got blind spots in my neurochem understanding...


Personal anecdote (Cherry on top for the actual chemists on this board: ) When I first started using poppy pods off ebay... ok, it's ok. i'm just glad I got to experience that golden age... And they were so cheap at fir.... ahem!
After a day or two off sleeping it off, I would feel really good and happy for no damned reason. When I went from opioid naive to a low dose of literally all the opiates.... About a week on, 2 days of sleepiness (withdrawal) then inexplicable euphoria for about 3-5 days... Then the next box arrived... and I met a kid who sold me 8mg dilaudid for the price of a hamburger ea... that's when it changed. I woke up one morning and puked my brain out with the worst headache ever, did a line... and realized how bad I'd fucked up. Bottle full of pills i'd never waste knowing the deal I got...

13 years later here we are.

TLDR: Will quitting naltrexone cause a euphoric period due to over-sensitivity? Is it just about timing? What am I missing about this treatment that gives me SLIGHT concern?

 

[WitchDr]

I'm sure you can get an upswing, maybe kinda rebound from an extreme low but I would think it would be short lived for most heavy long term users. I think heavy users have a lower level of neurotransmitter chemicals after burning the chemical production out.
So I imagine an a short upswing followed by a plateau and slow continued recovery.

 

[SKL]

I've always been suspicious of naltrexone as "treatment," but research doesn't show any serious risk of depression, etc. Believe me you'd hear about it if it did. Neurochemically speaking naltrexone blocks like naloxone reverses them but it is not an "anti-opioid" if you are starting from zero.

 

[EphemeralOutlet141]

Naltrexone therapy was the worst idea I've ever had. I couldn't get high which was good, but I also couldn't feel ANYTHING at ALL. Natural, emotional, etc. I don't recall feeling anything special when I stopped taking it, but I also didn't take it very long.

I still have issues with feeling things since I got off drugs, but it is nowhere near how naltrexone zombified me.

 

[Crackedout420]

When I was on naltrexone for my alcohol cravings, I lost a lot of weight

 

[Mycophile]

Naltrexone therapy was the worst idea I've ever had. I couldn't get high which was good, but I also couldn't feel ANYTHING at ALL. Natural, emotional, etc. I don't recall feeling anything special when I stopped taking it, but I also didn't take it very long.

I still have issues with feeling things since I got off drugs, but it is nowhere near how naltrexone zombified me.

I'm about to start naltrexone and this is a concern i have, but i hope you realize that while this kind of thing has occurred for you and some other people, MOST STUDIES SHOW THAT THIS DOES NOT HAPPEN FOR MOST PEOPLE.

The other problem is that there are different ways of using full dose naltrexone like the sinclair method where you ONLY take naltrexone while drinking or on your opioid which sounds contraindicative but isn't necessarily, or usage of ultra low dose naltrexone which is VERY VERY different from full dose, but both methods, while they show promise, are still fringe and doctors like mine are reluctant to try it even though she wanted to give me suboxone which i would not accept lol.

She says she will consider ultra low dose naltrexone MAYBE if high dose doesn't work, but even if it does work and she won't prescribe it i'm going to find a way to either buy it or make it, and supposedly that does not result in anyone having depression because of the low dose but RAISES endorphins, and i'm pissed she won't prescribe it.

But i watched a youtube video the other day with a doctor saying that typically what you describe should not occur, and doesn't USUALLY, but i do believe it occurs in some people which is why i want ULDN OR to try a modified Sinclair method where i'd ONLY use it with alcohol or kratom to kill the association to euphoria, but that MIGHT or might not be safe, but many have pulled it off.

I believe that naltrexone, either full or ultra low dose is NOT being used properly by most doctors, hence some of the negative effects, but there are also many other medications out there that can be used for opiates and alcohol.

How long have you been off the naltrexone that you still feel fewer emotions and how long were you on it

And did you ever consider trying other medications for opiates/alcohol or ultra low dose naltrexone or the Sinclair Method?

Do you really think that if i have a bad reaction like you that my brain won't eventually return to normal?

Cause according to all doctors it should and you shouldn't be continuing to have those feelings for very long after being off it.

My doc says the washout period is usually just a few days before you can get full effects from an opioid or alcohol, so it shouldn't effect you anymore, even though i can hear that it is.

That really sucks and fucking hope to god i react well to it or i'm telling this doctor straight up i want ultra low dose naltrexone or something else or i will switch doctors.

I'm not fucking going on a very long break from drugs and booze to feel bad but rather to feel good and exercise and the endorphins it produces are always my main ways of staying clean, but again, i've read doctors saying that that side effect you have had USUALLY does not occur

 

[Mycophile]

When I was on naltrexone for my alcohol cravings, I lost a lot of weight

Why did you lose weight and did you stop being able to experience pleasure from things like exercise, sex and food?

That's my big concern as i'm about to try it.

I want to try ultra low dose naltrexone or the sinclair method which i explained in my former post but my doctor is being stubborn and won't let me, but i'm probably going to find a way to try one or both regardless without her at some point.

 

[Mycophile]

Naltrexone therapy was the worst idea I've ever had. I couldn't get high which was good, but I also couldn't feel ANYTHING at ALL. Natural, emotional, etc. I don't recall feeling anything special when I stopped taking it, but I also didn't take it very long.

I still have issues with feeling things since I got off drugs, but it is nowhere near how naltrexone zombified me.

While i fully believe you had this side effect and i've heard others have as well, i think the MAJORITY do not.

This doctor says it doesnt' happen, but i heard another who said it does.

I think it definitely can occur and i hope it doesn't happen to me but if it does i'll stop and trying something else or ULDN or The Sinclair Method.

 

[Crackedout420]

Why did you lose weight and did you stop being able to experience pleasure from things like exercise, sex and food?

That's my big concern as i'm about to try it.

I want to try ultra low dose naltrexone or the sinclair method which i explained in my former post but my doctor is being stubborn and won't let me, but i'm probably going to find a way to try one or both regardless without her at some point.

That's exactly why I lot weight. Lost the pleasure/drive for food. It also made me quit smoking cigs

 

[Mycophile]

That's exactly why I lot weight. Lost the pleasure/drive for food. It also made me quit smoking cigs

Shit this is really making me nervous.

I mean, a lot of studies show this SHOULDN'T happen and USUALLY doesn't, but if i start to notice that it does I'M DONE and stopping as soon as it happens.

I want ultra low dose naltrexone or to use the sinclair method, and i'll do that or something else at the first hint of a problem.

A doctor said you should give it a month before you decide if you are reacting badly cause you often start having side effects that go away, so i figure i'll give it that amount of time.

Did you stop taking naltrexone and if so, when you stopped, how long before it did you start to feel normal and get pleasure from normal things again?

And did you ever try ultra low dose naltrexone or the sinclair method?

Also, how long did you take it and how long after you started did you start noticing these side effects?

And did you ever try any of the other different medications there are out there for alcoholism and/or opioids?

 

[somnilicious]

It also seemed to cause a lack of the ability to feel pleasure for me, although I couldn't completely blame the naltrexone because coming off opiates causes this anyways but the induction also directly correlated with a relapse in my inability to sleep. Again I can't completely blame the naltrexone because that also comes and goes in waves. It also caused my liver enzymes to go crazy and I was forced to quit. I will add that this was in the form of the vivitrol shot but essentially the same thing. I can't remember my first go around with the pills because it was 20yrs ago.

 

[Mycophile]

It also seemed to cause a lack of the ability to feel pleasure for me, although I couldn't completely blame the naltrexone because coming off opiates causes this anyways but the induction also directly correlated with a relapse in my inability to sleep. Again I can't completely blame the naltrexone because that also comes and goes in waves. It also caused my liver enzymes to go crazy and I was forced to quit. I will add that this was in the form of the vivitrol shot but essentially the same thing. I can't remember my first go around with the pills because it was 20yrs ago.

This scares me, but do you really think it will necessarily happen to me?

I mean, it happens for SOME people but doesn't seem to happen for most.

How long did you use it for and how long did you have to stop for to start feeling normal again?

Did you find another medication that was an alternative?

And how did you know your liver enzymes were going crazy?

Did you get your liver checked first and after?

Cause i'm a bit afraid of the doctor so i'm not getting my enzymes checked right now lol, though they weren't way too bad when i had them done like 10 months ago, though i have high cholesterol but that's different.

 

[somnilicious]

This scares me, but do you really think it will necessarily happen to me?

I mean, it happens for SOME people but doesn't seem to happen for most.

How long did you use it for and how long did you have to stop for to start feeling normal again?

Did you find another medication that was an alternative?

And how did you know your liver enzymes were going crazy?

Did you get your liver checked first and after?

Cause i'm a bit afraid of the doctor so i'm not getting my enzymes checked right now lol, though they weren't way too bad when i had them done like 10 months ago, though i have high cholesterol but that's different.

I wouldn't worry about it. Like I said, getting off opiates causes similar symptoms for me so I can't say for sure if it was the naltrexone. I took the vivitrol shot so it took over a month for it to leave my body. I did notice I felt better after this period but this was because it seemed to make my PAWS flair up. You won't have liver problems. I have Hep-C so that's the reason why. I might add that hep-C problems are also said to cause some of the same symptoms.

 

[somnilicious]

Others in my program were quite happy with their naltrxone and didn't seem to have problems.

 

[Mycophile]

I wouldn't worry about it. Like I said, getting off opiates causes similar symptoms for me so I can't say for sure if it was the naltrexone. I took the vivitrol shot so it took over a month for it to leave my body. I did notice I felt better after this period but this was because it seemed to make my PAWS flair up. You won't have liver problems. I have Hep-C so that's the reason why. I might add that hep-C problems are also said to cause some of the same symptoms.

Sorry to hear you have hep c.

Well, i don't know. The loss of pleasure the above posters have cited is not uncommon and i don't necessarily think it always has to do with other drugs, but then again many doctors say this doesn't USUALLY happen.

I'm willing to give it a shot...not literally though cause i'm using the pills and not the shot lol.

If i don't like it i'll stop and i'd figure i should go back to feeling normal but then i'd want something else to help me be sober for as long as i choose.

I'll respond to your pm at somepoint but it might take me a while.

 

[somnilicious]

Did I PM you? Yeah, dude. Try it. I wish I could have kept with it because I was terrified of relapsing and I did.

 

[Mycophile]

Did I PM you? Yeah, dude. Try it. I wish I could have kept with it because I was terrified of relapsing and I did.

Oh wait no it wasn't you it was someone with a similar sounding screen name.

 

[KS78]

I was on Naltraxone implants for many times and I never experienced loss of weight or depression, it didn't effect my drinking at all by the way. Actually, I used to drink pretty much every day and took speed as well. The depression while being on Naltraxone was that I could be on heroin.
I used cocaine before my heroin use as well but it never became an issue but IV cocaine became one of my worst addictions when I started using it with heroin. I used to get H to not get sick but cocaine became the stronger addiction. I had to get it even if it didn't cause any physical withdrawal when I didn't use it.

 

[EphemeralOutlet141]

I sent you a detailed PM back on the issue @Mycophile.

I still think, regardless of my experience, you should give it a try. My absolute honest opinion though? Try it without naltrexone. There were many variables in the multiple times I quit heroin, but all I know for sure is that it didn't stick when I tried naltrexone. It was actually the fastest I relapsed. Sure CT was terrible and I didn't feel normal for a while, but I eventually rebounded and felt better than I ever have once my chemistry balanced out. Naltrexone just introduced a different set of problems to worry about instead of the original ones and another chemical mishap in my brain.

I should also mention that I was on a suboxone taper 2 weeks prior to starting naltrexone. When I started it I found myself unable to sleep, eat, socialize, feel empathy, happiness, sadness, basically anything else you could name that occurs in the brain besides boredom and frustration.

I'm not a doctor obviously, and I am only using my experience to inform my replies at this moment. You'll never know for sure unless you try it. Like I mentioned in my PM my friend from treatment started it the exact same time I did and stayed with it for over a year. If he had any complaints about it I didn't hear them. You gotta find what works for you.

 

[leojay]

omg thx for all the replies. she's not started yet.
But, yea, I think timing is key... if there was a full monitoring of neural monitoring (maybe just FMRI showing nuculus accumbens not flooding w/ blood or something?) which could indicate the point where most benefit has been reached... Cheaply... but, wouldn't be enough information.
it wouldn't be viable at all... there is no normal... but, i feel she's getting set up for failure but, anecdotal evidence from BL seems 50 50...
conclusion : learned a few things?
But,
Thank you for all the input and please keep the discussion going.
-thank you all honestly. she says she's gonna do it no matter what...

idk how it's not just like banging narcan constantly though.