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What happens after you die and should I be scared about it?

I have almost died so many times. I felt the sweet embrace of death and it was this cold comfort and complete darkness every time.

There is a saying that goes, A man who has lived fully does not fear death.

No one lives forever, so what is the point in worrying about? Would it help?
 
You have a point, dopemaster, but the question is pure curiosity. Of course, you could forgo any kind of philosophical wondering, because in the end you can't get a definitive answer and it never actually improves anything in the materialistic sense. But isn't it boring to just exist and not think about anything?

I have almost died, too. However, mine wasn't a drug overdose, but a medical condition - septic shock. So, as you can imagine, my experience wasn't as peaceful as yours. Just goes to show that near-death experience is no basis for speculations about death itself.
 
That is what I think will happen yes, but as I said in my previous post, it still leaves me confused because I can't tie my "subjective experience" to the whole thing. I guess that is the most important question/aspect of this. If you assume that the subjective experience of an individual is a virtual entity based on certain combination of states of chemicals in the brain (analogous to a virtual entity that we call programs and other shit in a computer, whereas in reality it's just a combination of states of electronic devices), and the subjective experience exists only when the person is alive and awake, then I guess the answer would be that after death, it ceases to exist. But can you imagine what lack of existence looks like? I don't think you can. I certainly can't.


My point is that I am more than my subjective experience. I believe it to be a byproduct of brain activity. What makes me who I am are the choices I make and they effect they have on the world. yeah, we may not know what we will experience but we can make some reasonable assumptions about what parts of us may persist after death. For me, I focus on the impression I've made on the causal chain of being. I will still have an existence even when I'm gone, it just won't be in this current state of conscious experience.
 
Turk, nobody knows what death actually is. There are two options; eternal oblivion, or some form of conscious experience (heaven, reincarnation, etc.). For some reason, through human history, the latter has been the favored option. The point of this topic is that we do not know definitively and, for the living, we cannot know. Like you, we are all speculating. There is no way that reason can help us make an assumption about a state that we cannot experience. Reason does require the use of evidence and we have nothing from beyond the grave. There are no "reasonable" assumptions about death, there is only assumptions. We are not really talking about the physical process of decomposition; that is not what we mean by death.

I have made several reasonable assumptions about death. Really all we have are reasonable assumptions. Few things are known with any absolute certainty. I may know I exist, but I could merely be a sims character just playing a role. This could all be somethng like a dream and I will wake up to some other reality. The possibilities are endless, but yea we can only make assumptions about those possibilities until we die and find put for ourselves. Some of those possibilities are reasonable and some are sheer speculation. What will happen to our consciousness will be more speculation. What will happen to our bodies is based on evidence of what happens to other human bodies so you could call those assumptions reasonable. We can also make some reasonable assumptions about what impression we will leave on the world.

Why do you believe the body's decomposition is not relevant to what happens to us when we die? Are you only concerned with what happens to your conscious experience?
 
Society has this kind of stigma towards death and dying and I really don't know why. People act like they're gonna live forever but the truth is they are gonna die just like everyone else. Do you really want to find out the answer when death is knocking on your door? Have yall spent a little bit time pondering about this? Of course you have. What are you're thoughts about this? How can everyone be so carefree about something this serious? I honestly don't know what to do about this because I'm just as lost as most people. I have two concerns. The first one is that dying hurts like hell. No matter which way you die, there is some pain involved, unless you die in your sleep. Do I just have to pray on this outcome to occur? The other concern I have is about the afterlife, if there is one. If the afterlife is heaven, that is fine and dandy, but if it is the other one, then that is an eternity of suffering, worse than going to work everyday. Some people also think that you just become unconscious forever and this is sort of the middle ground for me. There is no suffering but yet I won't even know what the heck is going on.

Now, I want to tack on religion. So, why do you Christians believe that yall are going to heaven and everyone else is going to hell? The central tenet of this religion is that no matter what you did in this life (lets say Hitler), you just have to confess your sins to jesus and proclaim him as Lord and Savior at the very end. Don't you see how unfair this is? If we play by your rules, then all one has to do is say a daily prayer that covers the requirements (jesus savior and what sins i committed).

And atheists. I also have a problem with your point of view. I don't question your validity, in fact, I think you guys are correct. Based on the information I heard, you guys think that life just happens and when we die, we just go unconscious, and that very well may be the case. But don't you guys see, that if you are right, then there is really no point in living at all. No, there isn't because you guys think that everything that we have will be gone when we die, so there is really no point in life. Well, you may think, "oh, but I helped other people." Well, the thing is, that may be so, but everyone dies, so it matters not even if you helped a million people because the outcome is still the same!

This is something that I have been thinking about. I really want to hear some feedback, and get some closure because I'm scared as hell honestly. I hope that science advances far enough so that we won't have to worry about this question if we play our cards right, but I'm sure it's not gonna happen in my lifetime.

To take (some of) your points in order...

...the stigma towards death is a relatively modern one. Previously death was more ubiquitous, populations were smaller and life expectancy shorter. This made attitudes to death, and life itself, a different paradigm to that which exists today.

From the subjective perspective, being dead is indistinguishable from being unborn, or from dreamless sleep perhaps, and therefore should hold no terrors. You will no more find out what death is when you die than you found out what it is to be unborn when you were born. What seems frightening is the prospect of dying, but dying is an act of the living and, as such, might be pleasant or otherwise, as other acts are. It is only the prospect of what we lose that may be worrying. But as it is only the prospect of loss, not the loss itself, that is knowingly 'bad', it's an avoidable problem. You really can avoid the fear of dying by accepting and then ignoring its inevitability. Why die a thousand times in the imagination, rather than once in reality?

As for the afterlife. That too is based on irrational fear and is a concept religion has made great profit from. It is just a notion for controlling the living. Muslims weren't the first to come up with the promise of a great afterlife for foot soldiers. Plato said that in Utopia belief in a blissful afterlife should be encouraged so that citizens, not fearing death, would be good soldiers. It's all about controlling the living. And I wouldn't go so big on heaven. Have you read what the bible says about it? Sitting at Gods knee (crowded, presumably) singing shite tunes with angels? Christianity really didn't make a good selling point of its heaven.

As for life not mattering if all we do is die...that's a bit egocentric. Which, after all, is how we live our lives and what gives us the problematic approach we have to dying in the first place. For the purposes of your argument/concerns though...we die, but life goes on, and we do evolve don't we? Every action and interaction does matter and produces the evolution that has taken us from cave dwellers to neo-fascist capitalist pricks whatever it is we are today - which, for better or worse, is not cave dwellers. Everyone who ever lived has played a part in that. We don't have to be Einstein to matter.

All lives matter. And all we are is matter. But that matters. If you want it to. ;)
 
Why do you believe the body's decomposition is not relevant to what happens to us when we die? Are you only concerned with what happens to your conscious experience?

I didn't say it wasn't relevant, I said it wasn't what we mean by death, at least in this topic. I thought we were literally talking about what happens to consciousness and not what happens to our bodies. If it were the latter, there would be very little to discuss, decomposition has been studied, the processes are relatively determined. Your obfuscating by implying that the discussion here is about physical death. If it were about such a tedious topic, I don't think I'd be writing such boring replies to your tedious assertions.

I'm not that interested in the biological aspects of death, personally. Yes, in the context of this topic, I am primarily interested in what happens to consciousness.
 
I didn't say it wasn't relevant, I said it wasn't what we mean by death, at least in this topic. I thought we were literally talking about what happens to consciousness and not what happens to our bodies. If it were the latter, there would be very little to discuss, decomposition has been studied, the processes are relatively determined. Your obfuscating by implying that the discussion here is about physical death. If it were about such a tedious topic, I don't think I'd be writing such boring replies to your tedious assertions.

I'm not that interested in the biological aspects of death, personally. Yes, in the context of this topic, I am primarily interested in what happens to consciousness.


When I speak of ego I am talking about your conscious self, you claimed not to identify with your perception of "thinking." The decomposition thing was mostly for beligerent because he claimee his self was a "chemical reaction no different than any other chemical reaction." I explained my version of a self and how that persists. Next time try to be more specific with your language. This topic is about what happens to YOU when you die. Not what happens to consciousness when you die. So, how is that not the same as wyat happens to your ego when you die? that would be more specific. Consciousness will continue to be conscious in the living, but I personally don't assume our body will continue to produce a conscious experience after the brain ceases to function. Due to my sense of self, what happens to my conscious experience is not as important as the legacy I leave behind.

Don't worry willow, I've lost interest in debating with you. Its not worth the effort, and I seem to be wasting both of our time.
 
The thing is Turk, even when we agree, we start disagreeing. I'm tired of you reading things in my posts that I haven't said, the same thing I do to you and you got annoyed by that too.

turk said:
and I seem to be wasting both of our time.

I think I waste your time too, we simply speak past each other and end up debating totally different things. It's a shame, I clearly irritated you at points last year during that awful vegetarian thread :\ I actually see that I was being belligerent and responding a bit too specifically to you and minunderstanding you, so I am sorry for that- I hope you believe it. I enjoy a lot of what you write but I just feel like you chuck in personal digs, due to our pseudo-history, and I don't believe in letting shit fly like that. In truth, I need to stop being so prickly and sensitive but you need to try and consider what your derision towards opposing arguments is really saying about the arguments proponents. I am not the only one who has found you unpleasant and you are not the only to find me unpleasant.

What's the point, I know not.
 
Curious about death?

I am not sure if I am doing this correctly, but let's hope for the best.
We did not have the capability to wonder or worry about being born, so I have to assume there is a reason for this. I also don't think that the human mind is truly capable of understanding or truly comprehending eternity. We just don't have that ability, to my knowledge. Perhaps for good reason? If everyone knew innately why they were born, and when/how they would die, where would that leave us? Would we still try to live life? There has to be a reason for this mystery! How could there not be?

I, personally, want to believe in reincarnation to a degree. As far as religion, I don't think one religion is necessarily better than another, but I do believe one might be a better fit for one. However, the majority of people involved in religious affirmations were born into that particular religion. Is that by chance? I also don't know the answer to why I am American, and not Indian, or Saudi, or Asian.

So, there appear to be more questions than answers. We can not control being born, or choose how we die, so it seems senseless to dwell on it. Humans are curious beings, so dwell we will. ( I'd love to hear that in a really good Yoda voice)

I might be more interested in knowing why I was born, and why to those two people, but obviously ALL of these questions can not be answered and fall into the "no control zone." So, why waste your time in something we have no control over? I choose to embrace what I do have control over. I tend to follow the sayings from "Desiderata," that is MY guideline to trying to live a "good" life. I guess the real wow factor is we have the ability to continue to strive for answers, but if you can't tell me why I was born, you surely can't explain death to me. I just hope that from this point on I make decisions that will matter in my future.
To those that are curious about Desiderata:
DesiderataGo placidly amid the noise and haste, and remember what peace there may be in silence.
As far as possible without surrender be on good terms with all persons.
Speak your truth quietly and clearly; and listen to others, even the dull and ignorant; they too have their story.
Avoid loud and aggressive persons, they are vexations to the spirit.
If you compare yourself with others, you may become vain and bitter;
for always there will be greater and lesser persons than yourself.

Enjoy your achievements as well as your plans.
Keep interested in your career, however humble; it is a real possession in the changing fortunes of time.
Exercise caution in your business affairs; for the world is full of trickery.
But let this not blind you to what virtue there is; many persons strive for high ideals;
and everywhere life is full of heroism.

Be yourself.
Especially, do not feign affection.
Neither be critical about love; for in the face of all aridity and disenchantment it is as perennial as the grass.

Take kindly the counsel of the years, gracefully surrendering the things of youth.
Nurture strength of spirit to shield you in sudden misfortune. But do not distress yourself with imaginings.
Many fears are born of fatigue and loneliness. Beyond a wholesome discipline, be gentle with yourself.

You are a child of the universe, no less than the trees and the stars;
you have a right to be here.
And whether or not it is clear to you, no doubt the universe is unfolding as it should.

Therefore be at peace with God, whatever you conceive Him to be,
and whatever your labors and aspirations, in the noisy confusion of life keep peace with your soul.
With all its sham, drudgery and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy.

© Max Ehrmann 1927
 
Op nobody knows what happens. But it's gunna be a trip to find out
Exactly.

And being scared of something that is absolutely guaranteed to happen seems like a waste of energy.
You are much better off working on acceptance of death.
I think the death taboo in western society is really quite strange. It happens to us all, yet so many people are reluctant to even discuss it.

don't need to go any further.

exactly my thoughts
 
You have a point, dopemaster, but the question is pure curiosity. Of course, you could forgo any kind of philosophical wondering, because in the end you can't get a definitive answer and it never actually improves anything in the materialistic sense. But isn't it boring to just exist and not think about anything?

I have almost died, too. However, mine wasn't a drug overdose, but a medical condition - septic shock. So, as you can imagine, my experience wasn't as peaceful as yours. Just goes to show that near-death experience is no basis for speculations about death itself.

I have had more than drug overdoses that almost killed me. I would rather not get too specific, but I usually go into shock when I get injured bad so I do not feel it. I have had seizures that were pretty brutal and I had to go to the ER due to other things and I have had to be put under for surgery.

I would say waking up from being put under is fucking scary. You feel like you was dead and then you wake up and are in distress cuz that shit used to scare the fuck out of me.
 
I am not sure if I am doing this correctly, but let's hope for the best.
We did not have the capability to wonder or worry about being born, so I have to assume there is a reason for this. I also don't think that the human mind is truly capable of understanding or truly comprehending eternity. We just don't have that ability, to my knowledge. Perhaps for good reason? If everyone knew innately why they were born, and when/how they would die, where would that leave us? Would we still try to live life? There has to be a reason for this mystery! How could there not be?

I, personally, want to believe in reincarnation to a degree. As far as religion, I don't think one religion is necessarily better than another, but I do believe one might be a better fit for one. However, the majority of people involved in religious affirmations were born into that particular religion. Is that by chance? I also don't know the answer to why I am American, and not Indian, or Saudi, or Asian.

So, there appear to be more questions than answers. We can not control being born, or choose how we die, so it seems senseless to dwell on it. Humans are curious beings, so dwell we will. ( I'd love to hear that in a really good Yoda voice)

I might be more interested in knowing why I was born, and why to those two people, but obviously ALL of these questions can not be answered and fall into the "no control zone." So, why waste your time in something we have no control over? I choose to embrace what I do have control over. I tend to follow the sayings from "Desiderata," that is MY guideline to trying to live a "good" life. I guess the real wow factor is we have the ability to continue to strive for answers, but if you can't tell me why I was born, you surely can't explain death to me. I just hope that from this point on I make decisions that will matter in my future.
To those that are curious about Desiderata:
DesiderataGo placidly amid the noise and haste, and remember what peace there may be in silence.
As far as possible without surrender be on good terms with all persons.
Speak your truth quietly and clearly; and listen to others, even the dull and ignorant; they too have their story.
Avoid loud and aggressive persons, they are vexations to the spirit.
If you compare yourself with others, you may become vain and bitter;
for always there will be greater and lesser persons than yourself.

Enjoy your achievements as well as your plans.
Keep interested in your career, however humble; it is a real possession in the changing fortunes of time.
Exercise caution in your business affairs; for the world is full of trickery.
But let this not blind you to what virtue there is; many persons strive for high ideals;
and everywhere life is full of heroism.

Be yourself.
Especially, do not feign affection.
Neither be critical about love; for in the face of all aridity and disenchantment it is as perennial as the grass.

Take kindly the counsel of the years, gracefully surrendering the things of youth.
Nurture strength of spirit to shield you in sudden misfortune. But do not distress yourself with imaginings.
Many fears are born of fatigue and loneliness. Beyond a wholesome discipline, be gentle with yourself.

You are a child of the universe, no less than the trees and the stars;
you have a right to be here.
And whether or not it is clear to you, no doubt the universe is unfolding as it should.

Therefore be at peace with God, whatever you conceive Him to be,
and whatever your labors and aspirations, in the noisy confusion of life keep peace with your soul.
With all its sham, drudgery and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy.

© Max Ehrmann 1927

If we did not seek explanation where science cannot provide description, we wouldn't make as much progress, right?

What I mean is, I can explain death. Natural or unnatural. Natural, referring to BD on this one, chemical processes slowly taking on a new form, starting to end the organic being (which is yourself) until it ceases function. As for birth, you tend to dip into "point of living" or "reason of existence", which doesn't necessarily correlate with how or why we die, or what this thread is about which is what happens afterward.

We can explain how we live, how we are born, sustained, and eventually die. What we cannot explain is what happens after. Not yet, but we can still explore the thought enough to reach contempt.

If nothing suggests that conciousness transcends after death, no need to believe in such unless you go off of spiritual practice and pseudoscience for comfort, otherwise it is just wishful thinking. We have our hopes, but the idea that is most often reached is that of whatever happens we will either be pleased or cease to exist in a concious form.

We cannot control truly how we die. Someone might say "oh I can kill myself then I controlled it", no. So I do agree with you on this, since I don't believe in true free will, but free enough will slightly, with deterministic aspects based on the influence of enviornmental factors is what kills us. About the 'no control zone', if we are going to refer to the other thread on Free Will vs Determinism, in actuality we can't choose truly what to eat for breakfast tomorrow, so we need not worry about it? I believe we are free enough to set our own mental or enviornmental factors to ensure our "decision" carries out. A lot of which happens in our thoughts.

And yes willow, drink we shall.
 
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I would say waking up from being put under is fucking scary. You feel like you was dead and then you wake up and are in distress cuz that shit used to scare the fuck out of me.

Interesting. I had to have surgery under general anesthesia about a year ago and it wasn't scary. It was just like waking up from sleep, slightly intoxicated, and perhaps in a weird place.
 
To the OP, there is so much I could say to answer your concerns, but really the most important part is that fear is in most cases false evidence. Of course, our most primal fear involves death of any sort, we're programmed to fear death so that we can survive in a physical realm such as this world. But it seems to me that maybe you're a bit overwhelmed by this fear of death? The only way to overcome a fear is to face it. Explore the thing you're afraid of. In your case, I recommend you learn about astral projection. Robert Bruce is the best expert I know on the topic, so I suggest you get his book about astral projection, and then pick up copies of books by Robert Monroe, Bruce Moen and Tom Campbell. Then learn to astral project, and explore the non-physical environment yourself. Get comfortable with it. And if you can, volunteer for a hospice or somewhere where you can interact with people who are dying. That may help shift your perception to a less fearful one.

When I was a a kid my parents told me that what happened after I died was whatever I imagined it to be.

So I believed that death would be like Super Mario 64, and i'd get to run around this massive castle with paintings I could dive into and explore all of these different worlds.

I think I still believe that now.

Your parents were wise then. ;)

I don't believe in heaven, hell, or that there is a God watching over us that created everything in its image. I believe in the super consciousness.

So in your opinion, who or what created this super consciousness? Where did it come from?

Just an idea. Maybe the creator who created everything in its own image (that you don't believe in) is the super consciousness that you do believe in, and we're all fragments of it. Maybe the "in it's own image" part refers to its essence that resides deep in our collective core/highest consciousness (rather than form).

Of course, this is just speculation.
 
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being scared of dying is completely pointless - this is a battle no one has ever won. i'm not saying that basic survival programming is bad, but the lengths we go to certainly are. if you have cancer and a year to live, do you want to spend that time in a hospital eating poison? isn't a hospital the worst possible place to die? but euthanasia is illegal - you are required to let them torture you to death. evil.
 
To the OP, there is so much I could say to answer your concerns, but really the most important part is that fear is in most cases false evidence. Of course, our most primal fear involves death of any sort, we're programmed to fear death so that we can survive in a physical realm such as this world. But it seems to me that maybe you're a bit overwhelmed by this fear of death? The only way to overcome a fear is to face it. Explore the thing you're afraid of. In your case, I recommend you learn about astral projection. Robert Bruce is the best expert I know on the topic, so I suggest you get his book about astral projection, and then pick up copies of books by Robert Monroe, Bruce Moen and Tom Campbell. Then learn to astral project, and explore the non-physical environment yourself. Get comfortable with it. And if you can, volunteer for a hospice or somewhere where you can interact with people who are dying. That may help shift your perception to a less fearful one.



Your parents were wise then. ;)



So in your opinion, who or what created this super consciousness? Where did it come from?

Just an idea. Maybe the creator who created everything in its own image (that you don't believe in) is the super consciousness that you do believe in, and we're all fragments of it. Maybe the "in it's own image" part refers to its essence that resides deep in our collective core/highest consciousness (rather than form).

Of course, this is just speculation.

There is no evidence, none verifiable to suggest that AP exists at all. Only from what others say. AP is reproducible under controlled lab conditions. It is a natural phenomenon. Now you can still try it out for yourself, but it is scientifically explained. When science can suggest transcending of mind/body in any form then maybe it could be more than science, but as for right now it is just delusional to set your heart on the idea that it's some kind if actual near death event. Though I've heard it can be a powerful experience, it is debunked.
 
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