What happens after you die and should I be scared about it?

[ShortStaffer]

Hey guys, I was intrigued by the discussion and thought I might join in. Foreigner I appreciate your wisdom with what you said here:

There's no "you" in here, nothing is running this show. Nobody is in control. That's what is so farcical about the discussion of death. Nothing is dying. All you have to do to understand this is inquire into the total inconsistency of mind and consciousness, how it's there one minute and gone the next, how it's changeable.

An important aspect of death and dying/soul vs no soul/eternity vs. mortal finality is a question I have asked myself: "Am I 'simply' a constructed/evolved organism? Do I feel like just another animal?" A unique capacity that we have as humans is the ability to contemplate death's eventuality for ourselves. And this ability is unavoidable to humanity; we know we're going to die whether this knowledge helps us or hinders us. I don't feel like animals have similar traits to humans in a lot of ways, and I do believe-without a doubt-that people have souls. It's a long discussion to try and prove things that are eternal and/or spiritual, but there is truth. A final personal thought- Either everything matters, or nothing matters. Just as the dead and alive are distinct, so is our current life distinctly important and substantial. And if everything matters, if everything is substantial, then eternity is certain. I hope my opinions and beliefs don't cause anyone to worry or be upset-- my intent was to just join in a very important discussion! Shortstaffer

 

[szuko000]

Strangely enough I always thought it was "nothing" until I had a k-hole experience that i was so sure I died in. It was just a very relaxing and comforting "space" with me trying to remember how I got there and i couldnt all i could remember was words like "work" and "time" had meanings to me in the past but why and how were completely irrelevant. I could remember fractures of my existence if i tried, people loved me but i wasnt sure when or why. The only thing i really knew was that where i was, was exactly where i wanted to be. The only way to describe it was a void of my fractured memories and me being 100% content no memories of pain or what that word meant.

I believe what we experience as death to be our brains shutting down enough to warp time into an unfathomable length of string as it were. We perceive time as the rhythm of life and once we shut down enough to no longer comprehend time, it doesnt exist and a place without time exists forever. There may be a moment between "full system shut down" and a tiny amount of brain activity that we find ourselves existing forever in a space where we cant comprehend anything other then small bits of a past and just 0 in front, forever content as we know no better. This is where people see family members and things because the space is catered to who you were and is defined by your relevant past experiences and things you value most.

Obviously i have no idea but i always thought it wasnt the idea of heaven or anything like that and it was more scientific. This idea works for what i want to believe to happen as it explain an infinite existence of peace.

 

[Foreigner]

Hey guys, I was intrigued by the discussion and thought I might join in. Foreigner I appreciate your wisdom with what you said here: An important aspect of death and dying/soul vs no soul/eternity vs. mortal finality is a question I have asked myself: "Am I 'simply' a constructed/evolved organism? Do I feel like just another animal?" A unique capacity that we have as humans is the ability to contemplate death's eventuality for ourselves. And this ability is unavoidable to humanity; we know we're going to die whether this knowledge helps us or hinders us. I don't feel like animals have similar traits to humans in a lot of ways, and I do believe-without a doubt-that people have souls. It's a long discussion to try and prove things that are eternal and/or spiritual, but there is truth. A final personal thought- Either everything matters, or nothing matters. Just as the dead and alive are distinct, so is our current life distinctly important and substantial. And if everything matters, if everything is substantial, then eternity is certain. I hope my opinions and beliefs don't cause anyone to worry or be upset-- my intent was to just join in a very important discussion! Shortstaffer

Drop all these thoughts and questions and you will be much closer to the truth than if you asked them.

 

[ShortStaffer]

Foreigner,
I appreciate a degree of your input but caution you in the finality of your comment.
It's hard to imagine that truth is determined by 'dropping thoughts and questions'. How did you arrive to the comment you just made? I would posit it was by thought, and by question.
I don't mean to argue--I am only intending to encourage compliance to this forum's theme of free-thought being unsuppressed.
Shortstaffer

 

[turkalurk]

Everyone identifies with ego. It's unavoidable as long as you are navigating the physical world. That doesn't mean you can't see beyond it. You are ego talking. Using words, semantics and ideas which attempt to separate, is ego. Anytime you engage in "I am this and that is that", it's ego. Subject-object consciousness is ego. Any thought that attempts to affirm that you're a you and that you're separate, individual, and have unique conditions, ego is at work.

There's no "you" in here, nothing is running this show. Nobody is in control. That's what is so farcical about the discussion of death. Nothing is dying. All you have to do to understand this is inquire into the total inconsistency of mind and consciousness, how it's there one minute and gone the next, how it's changeable. Everything arises and dissolves without input from a "you". One moment that "you" is not there and has nothing to say about it, and then the next it's back again and spinning a story to take credit for something that's arising. Whether you subscribe to the notion of your input or not is irrelevant, it all goes on and on despite you. I'm not describing victimhood here, it's actually quite liberating, but it also means there's no point in grasping onto anything because you can't.



Could be. Enter Buddhism that wants to get off this gravy train. Others seem to have this notion that if there is a soul, it's on a progressive learning path and uses the cycle of life/death to acquire more growth. If that's true then being born human must be pretty low on the totem pole.

I disagree. Everyone has an ego, but not everyone attaches their identity solely to one aspect of their being. My ego is only a part of who I am. Who I am runs deeper than my ego. A person can identify with their genetic code and their body as a whole and that would be more accurate than simply identifying with a byproduct of their bodily system.

I do get what you mean, humans can't avoid ego as it certainly has its functionality. My point is that there is far more to who a person is than their ego.

 

[Foreigner]

Foreigner,
I appreciate a degree of your input but caution you in the finality of your comment.
It's hard to imagine that truth is determined by 'dropping thoughts and questions'. How did you arrive to the comment you just made? I would posit it was by thought, and by question.
I don't mean to argue--I am only intending to encourage compliance to this forum's theme of free-thought being unsuppressed.
Shortstaffer

Dropping thoughts and questions is relevant to the topic at hand. Nothing is permanent so you're not going to have a static truth presented to you from mind. And since death is the absence of mind and questions, dropping them and experiencing emptiness is far more relevant than chasing one's tail with semantics.

In other words: just stop.

I disagree. Everyone has an ego, but not everyone attaches their identity solely to one aspect of their being. My ego is only a part of who I am. Who I am runs deeper than my ego. A person can identify with their genetic code and their body as a whole and that would be more accurate than simply identifying with a byproduct of their bodily system.

I do get what you mean, humans can't avoid ego as it certainly has its functionality. My point is that there is far more to who a person is than their ego.

Pretty sure I already expounded upon this. Most people believe that they are this. They believe the story and the narrative. Others have learned to see through it. But whether you see through it or not makes no difference. It doesn't change anything as there's no better position to be in. There's nothing in here doing anything. It all independently arises and dissolves of its own accord. Therefore, what exactly is living, or dying?

When you say that there is far more to a person than their ego, I'm not sure what you are attempting to quantify. Emptiness is emptiness. It's an infinite nothing. Do a bunch of shit or don't do a bunch of shit, try hard or don't try at all, it's all impermanent and doesn't add up to anything. You are totally free.

 

[swilow]

its because you identify with your ego. Study inductive reasoning and you will see the strengh of your argument depends on the general acceptance of the premises. If your argument is strong, then your premises should be easily accepted by the majority. In other words, a strong inductive argument will be grounded on premises that can easily be generally accepted as being true. All you need to do to show the weakness in their argument is to show one exception to their premises, which I have provided.
You seem to place more value on something said by someone famous.

Try and discuss what I say, not me. You always try and belittle my arguments by having a dig at my personality. You don't know what I identify with. Epicurus's fame has nothing to do with me appreciating the logic of his argument, that is you trying to belittle me again. Don't bother, you're no good at it and it really negates your argument. It is function of the ego to criticise the nature of those who have different opinions.

Suffice to say, you haven't countered the argument at all, you've just said its stupid and stupid people believe it. . . Your opinion.

 

[turkalurk]

Dropping thoughts and questions is relevant to the topic at hand. Nothing is permanent so you're not going to have a static truth presented to you from mind. And since death is the absence of mind and questions, dropping them and experiencing emptiness is far more relevant than chasing one's tail with semantics.

In other words: just stop.



Pretty sure I already expounded upon this. Most people believe that they are this. They believe the story and the narrative. Others have learned to see through it. But whether you see through it or not makes no difference. It doesn't change anything as there's no better position to be in. There's nothing in here doing anything. It all independently arises and dissolves of its own accord. Therefore, what exactly is living, or dying?

When you say that there is far more to a person than their ego, I'm not sure what you are attempting to quantify. Emptiness is emptiness. It's an infinite nothing. Do a bunch of shit or don't do a bunch of shit, try hard or don't try at all, it's all impermanent and doesn't add up to anything. You are totally free.

if you are nothing how are you talking to me? Sounds like new age spiritual nonsense. You say there is nothing in here doing anything and I say there are many things in there doing many things as a collective being that I call me. My ego is just an emergent property of some of these things doing their thing. See, I didn't obscure myself into nothingness. I made sense because what I am saying isn't nonsense that is supposed to have some profound meaning. Maybe it is you who is chasing his tail with semantics. wake up out of your delusion. you do exist, your body does exist. It is something not nothing.

 

[turkalurk]

I countered it by showing his premises aren't necessarily true. Now instead of arguing with logic, you are using your feelings of belittlement as an excuse to ignore the valid points I have made. You tell me, how is it not egoic to think that nothing matters if YOU aren't here no more to experience anything? Think about it. All he is saying is that since you won't be experiencing feelings of pain after you die, that means death is nothing to us because we are living and dead things are something else therefore we never become dead so death is nothing to us. Its a proof that doesn't prove anything.

I have explained what I identify with. I gave you an example that countered Epicurus's premises. You gave me no rebuttal. You have given me no defense of his argument. Tell me, Willow, what is your identity? What is it that makes you, you?

 

[newnature]

Society has this kind of stigma towards death and dying and I really don't know why. People act like they're gonna live forever but the truth is they are gonna die just like everyone else. Do you really want to find out the answer when death is knocking on your door? Have yall spent a little bit time pondering about this? Of course you have. What are you're thoughts about this? How can everyone be so carefree about something this serious? I honestly don't know what to do about this because I'm just as lost as most people. I have two concerns. The first one is that dying hurts like hell. No matter which way you die, there is some pain involved, unless you die in your sleep. Do I just have to pray on this outcome to occur? The other concern I have is about the afterlife, if there is one. If the afterlife is heaven, that is fine and dandy, but if it is the other one, then that is an eternity of suffering, worse than going to work everyday. Some people also think that you just become unconscious forever and this is sort of the middle ground for me. There is no suffering but yet I won't even know what the heck is going on.

Now, I want to tack on religion. So, why do you Christians believe that yall are going to heaven and everyone else is going to hell? The central tenet of this religion is that no matter what you did in this life (lets say Hitler), you just have to confess your sins to jesus and proclaim him as Lord and Savior at the very end. Don't you see how unfair this is? If we play by your rules, then all one has to do is say a daily prayer that covers the requirements (jesus savior and what sins i committed).

And atheists. I also have a problem with your point of view. I don't question your validity, in fact, I think you guys are correct. Based on the information I heard, you guys think that life just happens and when we die, we just go unconscious, and that very well may be the case. But don't you guys see, that if you are right, then there is really no point in living at all. No, there isn't because you guys think that everything that we have will be gone when we die, so there is really no point in life. Well, you may think, "oh, but I helped other people." Well, the thing is, that may be so, but everyone dies, so it matters not even if you helped a million people because the outcome is still the same!

This is something that I have been thinking about. I really want to hear some feedback, and get some closure because I'm scared as hell honestly. I hope that science advances far enough so that we won't have to worry about this question if we play our cards right, but I'm sure it's not gonna happen in my lifetime.

Only during this age of grace in which we now living, one will stand at the great white throne judgement. God will look at ya and say, "Why are you standing here with your identity still in Adam, Adam in rebellion. I offered a free gift, but you are standing here with your identity in Adam, Adam in rebellion?" Death as we know it, would indeed be the end of our existence were it not for the fact of the resurrection. It is the resurrection that turns death into a temporary sleep, so to speak. The second death differs from the first death, not in nature, but in results. 


The first death is a temporary sleep, because it is followed the the resurrection. The second death is permeant and irreversible extinction, because there is no awakening. The second death is the death resulting from the final judgment which prevents evildoers from living in the new earth to come, a punishment that ultimately results in eternal, irreversible death. 


The stern punishment awaiting the enemies of righteousness, whose temporary resurrection results only in a return to death and its punishment, their full and final defeat. The wicked will be resurrected mortal in order to receive their punishment which will result in their ultimate annihilation.

 

[Foreigner]

if you are nothing how are you talking to me? Sounds like new age spiritual nonsense. You say there is nothing in here doing anything and I say there are many things in there doing many things as a collective being that I call me. My ego is just an emergent property of some of these things doing their thing. See, I didn't obscure myself into nothingness. I made sense because what I am saying isn't nonsense that is supposed to have some profound meaning. Maybe it is you who is chasing his tail with semantics. wake up out of your delusion. you do exist, your body does exist. It is something not nothing.

I never said you are nothing/non-existent. I said you are empty.

You're mistaking what I'm saying for nihilism.

 

[swilow]

I countered it by showing his premises aren't necessarily true. Now instead of arguing with logic, you are using your feelings of belittlement as an excuse to ignore the valid points I have made. You tell me, how is it not egoic to think that nothing matters if YOU aren't here no more to experience anything?

I never said that . That is not my belief. I'm not going to argue about a point I didn't make. I've already explained why I think the argument is logical.

The rest of your questions are irrelevant. I don't know why you want to discuss my identity.

 

[sigmond]

not sure if i have to point this out or not but when forming an argument you put forth a proposition/axiom/premise then additional propositions/premises/assertions/conjectures supporting it.

Axiom = self-evident truth >premise 1: >premise 2: so on and so forth. so of course if you do not accept the axiom (self-evident truth) its pointless to continue.

there seems to be far more evidence supporting the death of an organism than the existence of; a soul, ego, spirit, afterlife, living in perpetual illusion, brains in a vat...all that aside im not exactly a proponent of physicalism.

carry on.

 

[swilow]

My emergent self is amused by newnatures fire and brimstone monologue. Let me guess, you number amongst the righteous saved? Its not very Christian to gloat about eternal damnation is it?

 

[newnature]

My emergent self is amused by newnatures fire and brimstone monologue. Let me guess, you number amongst the righteous saved? Its not very Christian to gloat about eternal damnation is it?

Let's do a couple of bong hits and think about this. I will show you a fact. The notion of the eternal torment of the wicked can only be defended by accepting the Greek view of the immortality and indestructibility of the soul, a concept which is foreign to scripture. But people will still put those stems and seeds in their pipe about that which is foreign to scripture?

 

[swilow]

You've lost me mate. I think I'm not stoned enough yet

 

[newnature]

You've lost me mate. I think I'm not stoned enough yet

In the Old Testament, the word “sheol” is the underground depository of the dead. There are no immaterial, immortal souls in sheol, simply because the soul does not survive the death of the body. Nowhere in the Old Testament is the abode of the dead regarded as a place of punishment or torment. There is no Hell. The concept of an infernal ‘hell’ developed in Israel only during the Hellenistic period.

The condition of the dead in sheol, the realm of the dead, is one of unconsciousness, inactivity, a rest or sleep that will continue until they are resurrected. The prospect that one day a vast number of people will be consigned to the everlasting torment of hell is most disturbing. Everlasting torture is intolerable from a moral point of view, because it pictures God acting like a bloodthirsty monster who maintains an everlasting Auschwitz for his enemies, whom he does not even allow to die.

 

[swilow]

Yes, who will punish this tyrant god for His sins? I can't think of anything worth eternal punishment except such a condemnation. The Christian god seems evil to me.

 

[newnature]

Yes, who will punish this tyrant god for His sins? I can't think of anything worth eternal punishment except such a condemnation. The Christian god seems evil to me.

Paul wants us to be sitting in our thinking, in the place where Job was sitting, when Job asked a question, “But how should man be just with God” because Paul understood that the heart of people will go to great lengths to establish its own righteousness, and then to show just cause why they are not worthy of the wrath of God. 


Seems it’s a health, wealth, and prosperity message that is motivated by the intent of separating you from the money in your wallet, gaining wealth at the expense of another’s worship is being done on a mass scale today. 


Investment giving, this is what your seed faith people are being told is all about. You plant your seed faith here and God has no idea apart from you planting your seed faith whether you have faith. 


So you plant your seed in this envelope with my address on it, God can see your faith and response by giving you your miracle. Modern day Christianity would say justifying the righteous, “Come to us and we will show you how to be righteous then God can justify you. We will teach you how to shoot that arrow that hit the dead center, so you can be acceptable before God.” 


What a mistake that is. Look again all of you who are resting in the hypocrisy of your own well doing, while at the same time evaluating another’s salvation according to their performance in regard to whatever they are doing or not doing. 


People placing confidence in their performance, not realizing that the law was designed to teach them not to place confidence in their performance when it came to earning their righteousness before God through their performance. Otherwise, God would not have provided for a sacrificial system within the law program in the first place, he would not of needed it. 


Are you not glad to find out that your righteousness before God comes totally apart from your performance in the flesh in any way what’s so ever. Our deeds do not determine our destiny, our faith determines our destiny!

 

[belligerent drunk]

^ that's a whole lot of text, but honestly I have no idea what you're even trying to say. That's what I don't like about religious talks - lots of fancy words and beautiful sentences, but can't understand a damn thing.