Addiction What does being ‘sober’ mean to you? Are all drugs off the table or are you able to use other drugs (to a lesser degree)?

[pixies+]

TL;DR - the last paragraph holds the question. Feel free to jump this stuff

When I first became sober in 2016 I thought my life was over. No more booze, no more cocaine, no more extra benzos, and certainly no more opioids. No more fun. No more laughter. No more enjoying the time spent with my friends.
Dammit… sobriety was going to eat me alive. It was already ruining my life. I wasn’t ready for this.

I couldn’t wrap my head around the idea that I couldn’t even have a beer in the summer while sitting around a camp fire. Not one single beer?!

I wouldn’t have any stashes of my ‘just because/just in case’ coke and pills hidden in my purse.. that part really drove me wild. Always having something on me made me feel relief.

I didn’t think I’d ever smile or have fun again in my entire life. I was only 29… surely this couldn’t be my ‘fate’?
Having to turn down a drink regardless of where I went. Or how sunny it was. Or who was there.
It didn’t seem fair somehow. Why me? Why was I unable to control my shit when everyone else could?
Me? Go to a 12 step program? I didn’t need that .. I just needed to drink slower, stop the iv use and just do lines.

Sure I used to go overboard some (a lot) of the time. Who didn’t?
Yeah.. I had a tendency to blackout and not remember anything. Many of my friends did the same things too.. kinda. They’d usually fill me in.
Yes, I caused a lot of chaos. Nothing too too bad..?
Sure.. my nose bled when I sneezed. Or when I put on socks.
Or my nose would just leak every time I bent over, brushed my hair, put on some make up, drove my car, or ate some food. But .. that’s just because the air was weird. Couldn’t have had anything to do with me.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Therapy helped me a lot. The 12 step programs helped me a ton. Exercise, diet, going to bed the same time every night and waking up the same time every morning also helped me a lot. As did doing things I genuinely loved.. like paddle boarding, swimming, hiking, gardening, digging holes and filling them back in, spending time with myself, and a lot of music therapy. Drawing. Painting. Seaglassing . It all helped to get me through the worst of it.

It’s been ten years since I started my sobriety journey. I’ve had two major relapses that cost me everything important in my life.. along with several mini moments of ‘weakness’.
Other than that ive been mostly ‘sober’, with the exception of mushrooms, lsd, and a little bit of ket.

I’m not feeling amazing these days… it’s been a tough 3 years. However, I’m still sober from the substances that have caused me the most harm. Even though I crave them - I’m craving any and all drugs right fucking now and have been for months. This week has been a particularly difficult week in terms of cravings.
It’s to the point where it physically hurts and I end up crying because I want something.
I haven’t given in. I’ve made it this far.. turning back now would just be silly considering everything I’ve put into it. Im not sure I’d be able to live with myself if I hopped back on again now. Far too many important people and things in my life to let down… me included.
_______________________________________

So what do you think?
Does sobriety mean you don’t touch anything?
Does it mean you can touch some things but not others?
What’s your experience been like recently?
Are you going through anything that’s challenging your sobriety?
Maybe you’re doing really good and could leave some advice for those of us that are struggling.

 

[BourbonMac]

Well, if you did ever have a drinking problem, I do think even getting buzzed is ending that sobriety. I was sober for booze for over 4 years, and even though I had a hiccup where I sorta accidentally got drunk in October, I tried not to count that, but had to.

It really depends on the addictions. I need to get off kratom, and if I ever took it again, I'm not sober from kratom. To me, sobriety doesn't necessarily mean complete sobriety from all substances. You can get sober from uppers, opioids, booze, even just weed which can be badly addicting for some people.
People who only get baked are what some people call "Cali Sober" because a lot of people just won't accept that weed can get you fucking rocked depending on the strain, THC levels, genetics, etc. Not to mention how bad edibles can destroy you.

Doing some psychedelics doesn't exactly count here to me, considering their use in helping people get truly sober. It's too bad DMT wasn't one of the ones you used, because DMT is incredible, and it might just take away a lot of your cravings for those drugs. But yeah, overall, I guess sober is defined by yourself. True sobriety is just being a straight edge, really. Let, many of these people drink Bang or other energy drinks and get all tweaked up on caffeine.

It sounds like you've managed well otherwise, but maybe try higher amounts of acid, shrooms or DMT. Ketamine... I'd probably stay away, because that one can be very addicting. I've "lost" some people in K-holes that they've been stuck in for years.

 

[chippermonk]

I don't know, someone else could give you their more relevant experience. I'm just a low level chipper. I do drugs without getting crazy or addicted, but I think I just have some sort of quality that makes me cautious about going overboard. I don't even enjoy being extremely high or drunk, though I do love a nice mellow buzz. I dabble and I observe. It's probably just some accident of genetics that protects me, though now that I'm older, I know I definitely am more cautious about dosing.
A therapist I was seeing once told me that she was surprised that with my personal history with depression and stuff that had happened that I had never developed an addiction. I'm not sure what to make of her observation but like I said, I think it must be some genetic quality coupled with luck. ( I could go into my personal history more but I don't really want to bore anyone!)
But I think some people just have that pull towards overdoing it with drugs, and some classes of drugs will suck people like you in worse than others. You have shown to yourself that this is your kryptonite. You know this, and it sucks being sober, but...
I just think it is better for you, personally, to lean into those other qualities you have to make yourself more content. Maybe even read stories from other people who have given up addictions: what worked for them? You get pleasure out of a number of pretty healthy things that can fill ones life, like gardening or hiking or your daughter. You also have a zest for life and excitement which can be great and admirable and healthy, too, as long as you channel it well. Maybe go for some high adrenaline adventures involving physical activity in nature.
Things can truly get better and more settled with age. You might feel like you're old now, dunno, but you aren't. You have years ahead of you and it's just a natural process to mature and become more comfortable with yourself, especially for someone like you who is obviously intelligent and thoughtful. Maybe down the road sometime you can can develop the ability to safely get high now and again but I don't think you are there at present.
Best of luck!

 

[PtahTek]

first i like the tldr at the top. cudos on that i mean whats the point of it following the long of a post?

ot
i feel that a balance can be healthy. possibly. its hard not to fall on abuse when substances are at hand. but for self medicating for whatever issue(s) if used as needed at the lowest effective dose is basically sober from my perspective.
if someone is in it purely for the "buzz" then i dont feel sober has any equity in the subject. no judgements here as i fall to abuse at times with something as innocuous as a nicotine vape pen. hit it sometimes til i get a dizzy feeling. lol
havent tried being off all substances in quite some time. maybe this is something to mull over.

 

[Deleted member 554582]

sober?can smoke tobaco for now...i like it.don't affect me bad to this moment...10g daily handrolled cigarettes are enough.Alcohol?-not big fan.....have been drink rarely no more than 100g vodka or whiskey-when i felt too bad.this gaves me some extra 1-2 hours sleep...got a cured Hep.C with whom lived more than 20 years....no thanks...felt the poison clearly how destroys the liver(no one other poison gaves me such feeling)...also being drunked-i hate this feeling.Uppers-too old for this shit.Benzos-from years on 10-20 mg daily.Can't feel nothing much from a very long time,but in case i stay without them i would feel for sure the difference.....It would be great if i quitt this stuff.....have been suceed once time-sober from any benzos about a year.....so obvious possible,but ofcourse not an easy task.Painkillers?-long story....multiple remissions,the biggest was five years......currently i take at least tramadol...so problem for sure...big,big chalenge....and fuck yes i wanna final round!!!MJ-even forgot how smell......in fact never affect me very well....once,two days smoking-a joint a day perfect....and after then start to feel anxious....in the past had to drank beer or two to come down......so not big fan anymore.....mushrooms,cacti,mdma-when the times comes only.....once in a year or once in two-three years...could be even two-three times a year....idk,but happens to me very rarely forsure.....so ithink i could be sober or let's say balanced in the use of mildly intoxicating substances and i wanna be,but because i learn very slow 'cause i'm stupid it would take some time

 

[Tryhard_In_Bed]

Coffee and cigarettes is all that's available for the sober hand. And a vape pen... with nicotine... yes only nicotine...

I like freebase nicotine better then salts, hits harder. ALSO, I like my coffee with vanilla.

I've been in rehab for 4 months I have 2-5+ months to go! I even quit smoking last month!

 

[rentedbythehour]

I have some experience here I started using when I was 12. Marijuana, LSD By the time I was 18, cocaine, benzos, ecstacy, ghb, basically whatever came my way. I was sometime who could use anything at any time and never have an issue with it. Until I smoked crack. I lost pretty much everything within a 3 month period. I was still young, maybe 19 or 20 and I went to my mom and told her I had an issue with drugs and asked if I could move back in. She let me. Having structure and being held accountable for simple things like cleaning the kitchen, having a routine helped. I stopped using without having to get outside help. I haven't touched crack to this day and it's been almost 30 years. I did continue to use other substances though. Long story short here, I get migraines. My DR put me on Prozac as a preventative. It made me suicidal. When I mentioned this to the DR, he doubled my dosage. It didn't help that I was abusing benzos, drinking, doing coke, percs, at the same time. I saw a different Dr who told me to stop the prozac. Didn't tell me to taper, just stop. So I did. I also went on a binge (benzos, coke) with my boyfriend at the time. The only thing I really remember is we got into an argument. He got arrested for something. I went into the bedroom and took 2 bottles of meds that I'd just gotten from the pharmacy. My new migraine preventatives, amitriptyline and indural. Needless to say I woke up in ICU on a respirator. I decided that day Feb 14, 2000 that I didn't want to die. I was done with drugs. I found out I was pregnant with my first son not long after. I had a very good reason to stay sober. I would say for the most part I stayed sober for the better part of 17 years. I relapsed when my kids father, the same boyfriend from the time I od'd, passed away. I'd had other things going on in my life around that time and I just couldn't handle everything. I started using meth the end of 2017. I would use every now and then at first. It wasn't until a few years ago that I started using daily. I smoke, have never used IV. The only other way I've used it is occasionally eating it. I don't use any other substances, except what's prescribed. Still have those migraines (38 years now) and fibromyalgia. I feel like I am a responsible, functional user though. I eat, sleep, have a routine, take care of things I need to. I don't over do it. I don't even feel like I get high. I think the main reason I use is because it's greatly reduced the number of migraines I get, it gives me energy. Fatigue and brain fog are symptoms that I get often from fibro. I'm able to accomplish things I need to. I socialize a lot more instead of isolating. I'm doing things I enjoy now where I didn't before. I was almost at the point of not being about to get out of bed. That was a mixture of physical pain, depression, lack of motivation. Using meth has helped me with all of those.
I've never been to rehab. I've never needed professional help regarding drug use. I've been able to get sober several times on my own. Sober to me is not using anything that's not prescribed by a DR.
I had a boyfriend when I first started using meth. He was the one who introduced me to it. He was the biggest alcoholic, benzo, rc user. He could barely hold a conversation when he was drinking. I helped him stop. Tapered down slowly. He got to the point where he could have a beer or two and be ok. By the end of our relationship, he was 100% sober. He wouldn't even take ibuprofen.

 

[chippermonk]

That sounds like pretty good self control that you have. Good! I know some people have that to varying degrees and I know I do ( though I'm glad I'm not testing my resolve by having a gram of meth lying around!)
Are you able to say that your usage is not creeping up on you? What sort of daily amounts do you use?

 

[PtahTek]

got a cured Hep.C with whom lived more than 20 years..

just got rid of a 20-25 year chronic hep c myself. had some labs done for another reason and it popped positive; gave me generic epclusa (can't pronounce it so defo can't type the names of active ingredients) and told me that i was clear after the second of a 3 month regimen. made me sleepy in the afternoon and headaches (moderate to mild) at night. seems i have a better appetite after being cleared for a few months now.
being as careful as possible with the ol liver as well even though i kinda was already since a few years ago.
how'd you get rid of hep? any meds or...?
gongrats on getting it done.

.have been suceed once time-sober from any benzos about a year.....

Same. Stopped for a little over a year and started back after we moved to PA. It's ok I feel I need it and manage it without abuse.

 

[Deleted member 554582]

harvoni brother.Contains ledispavir and sofosbuvir. a combo of two antiviral meds. which block crucial proteins in the RNA of the virus.this made the virus unaible to replicate itself.Two months regimen-one pill daily...the only side effect i have felt was insomnia as i remember.Over 95% sucess rate.....when i start the med this was 7-8 years ago....then was incredibly expensive...the cost of two bottles-ur ticket for curing was about 30 000 euro....now may be is cheaper idk.....thanks to my insurance i was able to afford it...needless to say-after this two months i felt absolutely like a newborn...astonishing difference.......just incredible how to feel a man without inflammation of this vital organ....ofcourse damage of years virus load upon liver was already done....thankfully all these years the virus load in my body was relatively low-low acting.....so alcohol is my enemy numero uno.....a good part is that i never have been fan of it

 

[PtahTek]

My liver is in relative good condition for some reason. Not sure how all that alcohol I drank for decades. And yeah insurance paid something close to 40,000 us. I was like damn.... Glad I got it in while I still have insurance. Last 6 months or so I have been doing a dive into my physical and mental well being. Teats, exams, labs, MRIs, ultrasounds, xrays, therapy, appointments out the a**.
Finding I got more problems than I thought but knew. They seem to be related to age, abuse of body and substances, traumas, etc knowing is half the battle. Not sure why I thought to go through all this all of a sudden. Just wasn't feeling all that well and need to stick around Al little while longer.

 

[Deleted member 554582]

u brave...i usually don't go to docs at all...only for script haha....well make ocassionaly some blood tests and usual.....latest was months ago....even may be a year-like usual normal,except- high cholesterol-idk total or free....always like that-maybe some related with liver idk....i am not over weighted....it's not easy to find good med.proffy here....not strange-old schools are retired,those with skills are in the west....the rest-got to be very lucky to find good doc,dentist,car service or any type of service...most of the time u pay a lot of money and pray not to harm u like bonus over ur possible health problems or not to destroy ur car,house or whatelse u've got to repair...shit...that's it

 

[rentedbythehour]

YearMy liver is in relative good condition for some reason. Not sure how all that alcohol I drank for decades. And yeah insurance paid something close to 40,000 us. I was like damn.... Glad I got it in while I still have insurance. Last 6 months or so I have been doing a dive into my physical and mental well being. Teats, exams, labs, MRIs, ultrasounds, xrays, therapy, appointments out the a**.
Finding I got more problems than I thought but knew. They seem to be related to age, abuse of body and substances, traumas, etc knowing is half the battle. Not sure why I thought to go through all this all of a sudden. Just wasn't feeling all that well and need to stick around Al little while longer.

I have no choice but to see a Dr regularly. I see my PCP several times a year. Maybe it was working in healthcare that made it easy to do. I've had the same PCP for like 20 years. I was seeing a neurologist as well but I need to find a new one. He stopped seeing patients in the office. But until they come up with a treatment that works or a head transplant, I'll be seeing the DR regularly

 

[jasperkent]

I haven't read all the responses yet, but I will. And I won't go into much detail right now, but I might later. Here's my quick answer:

I am an alcoholic. Absolutely, 100%, for sure, by  anyone's definition. I am certain that I cannot safely drink any amount of alcohol. If I do, it triggers what amounts to an allergic reaction. I will crave it intensely the next day, and earlier & earlier in the day thereafter. I may not get drunk immediately and I might even be able to drink moderately for a short time. But sooner or later the booze will take over and I'll be physically dependent. Same with benzos, which for me are alcohol in pill form.

I've also been addicted to coke, meth, and opioids. All very serious addictions and I avoid those drugs now. Still, alcohol has caused me far more harm in every way than all of those drugs put together.

I've been a lot healthier & happier since quitting those five substances, but I am not "clean & sober," nor do I aspire to be.

 

[rentedbythehour]

That sounds like pretty good self control that you have. Good! I know some people have that to varying degrees and I know I do ( though I'm glad I'm not testing my resolve by having a gram of meth lying around!)
Are you able to say that your usage is not creeping up on you? What sort of daily amounts do you use?

I haven't really kept track. I know I've gone thru times when I've used a lot more than usual. Going thru 7 grams in a week, by myself, is not my norm. I'm able to see it though and slow back down. I've decided I'm going to take a little break once my current supply is gone. I have been getting more headaches again lately. I still get benefits from using, but the headaches were the main thing for me. I just want to see if it makes a difference. I think the self control comes from the years of using before I stopped. That plus getting sober, working in healthcare, seeing first hand how bad things can be. I have a nephew who was born addicted. My sister lost her kids. I've never wanted to be that person. Tbh I don't feel like I've ever really lost control while doing drugs. Maybe in the early days, mid-90s doing ecstacy, but even then it didn't last long. I think it's my chemical make up. Prescriptions don't work for very long on me. I might get results for 6 months or so and then it stops working. Or I get an opposite effect of what's supposed to happen. The list of medications I've been on over the years is ridiculously long. Trying to find something that works long term has been really challenging. I honestly don't think my migraines have ever been as controlled as they have been with meth. If only I could get a consistent, clean supply.

 

[KurtAurelius]

TL;DR - the last paragraph holds the question. Feel free to jump this stuff

When I first became sober in 2016 I thought my life was over. No more booze, no more cocaine, no more extra benzos, and certainly no more opioids. No more fun. No more laughter. No more enjoying the time spent with my friends.
Dammit… sobriety was going to eat me alive. It was already ruining my life. I wasn’t ready for this.

I couldn’t wrap my head around the idea that I couldn’t even have a beer in the summer while sitting around a camp fire. Not one single beer?!

I wouldn’t have any stashes of my ‘just because/just in case’ coke and pills hidden in my purse.. that part really drove me wild. Always having something on me made me feel relief.

I didn’t think I’d ever smile or have fun again in my entire life. I was only 29… surely this couldn’t be my ‘fate’?
Having to turn down a drink regardless of where I went. Or how sunny it was. Or who was there.
It didn’t seem fair somehow. Why me? Why was I unable to control my shit when everyone else could?
Me? Go to a 12 step program? I didn’t need that .. I just needed to drink slower, stop the iv use and just do lines.

Sure I used to go overboard some (a lot) of the time. Who didn’t?
Yeah.. I had a tendency to blackout and not remember anything. Many of my friends did the same things too.. kinda. They’d usually fill me in.
Yes, I caused a lot of chaos. Nothing too too bad..?
Sure.. my nose bled when I sneezed. Or when I put on socks.
Or my nose would just leak every time I bent over, brushed my hair, put on some make up, drove my car, or ate some food. But .. that’s just because the air was weird. Couldn’t have had anything to do with me.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Therapy helped me a lot. The 12 step programs helped me a ton. Exercise, diet, going to bed the same time every night and waking up the same time every morning also helped me a lot. As did doing things I genuinely loved.. like paddle boarding, swimming, hiking, gardening, digging holes and filling them back in, spending time with myself, and a lot of music therapy. Drawing. Painting. Seaglassing . It all helped to get me through the worst of it.

It’s been ten years since I started my sobriety journey. I’ve had two major relapses that cost me everything important in my life.. along with several mini moments of ‘weakness’.
Other than that ive been mostly ‘sober’, with the exception of mushrooms, lsd, and a little bit of ket.

I’m not feeling amazing these days… it’s been a tough 3 years. However, I’m still sober from the substances that have caused me the most harm. Even though I crave them - I’m craving any and all drugs right fucking now and have been for months. This week has been a particularly difficult week in terms of cravings.
It’s to the point where it physically hurts and I end up crying because I want something.
I haven’t given in. I’ve made it this far.. turning back now would just be silly considering everything I’ve put into it. Im not sure I’d be able to live with myself if I hopped back on again now. Far too many important people and things in my life to let down… me included.
_______________________________________

So what do you think?
Does sobriety mean you don’t touch anything?
Does it mean you can touch some things but not others?
What’s your experience been like recently?
Are you going through anything that’s challenging your sobriety?
Maybe you’re doing really good and could leave some advice for those of us that are struggling.

Just for me sobriety is largely being off? I can’t really call myself sober as I know if a friend has a couple spare 30mg Codeines and offers me some I’d say yes.

But even though I could walk to a pharmacy or multiple, and pick up multiple boxes of 12.8mg Codeines with Ibruprofen, I just can’t be asked.. same with say learning the DNs to get some Oxy or Bupe.

Same with the fact I use nicotine everyday..

But with alcohol, I may crave some of it, but as an entire force I always come to a same quick conclusion. No. And I don’t drink because I’m so repulsed of how bad it is for the body and frightened of what it largely does to me.

I’m likely hard on myself, but I take 77mg methylphenidate a day. This is prescribed but at the end of the day, that’s a significant amount of a stimulant, and with a honestly minor tolerance really, it’s having a big change on how I am, even used as medicine.

This does highlight the fact it’s at best a loose term, and that it can be a black and white but some need that.

I could be wrong, but I’m at a point where I know I can use some things and put them back down. Like weed, mushrooms, mdma.

I won’t say opioids as it’s a different beast coming across some, then when I had a bottle of 56 120mg DHC.

I managed it to an extent but it was close. Yes I know I can get more and haven’t bought, and generally haven’t craved but I have my meds for one, and two perhaps a part of me knows a bottle that big is to much of a responsibility- Psychoanalysis says Addict !

But other things I will not try pick back up. Alcohol or Benzos, or Ketamine. I did enough damage that’s it not worth repeating.

“Clean” is someone who needs total abstinence and sobriety.

Just like a “Addict” is someone who doses a drug continuously and chronically, no matter what.

Then you just have whatever is inbetween. Not sure what word to use as they all seem offensive.

But if you spend more time sober, although it may be a stretch to say your sober in a definitive sense, it’s close enough.

What is most helpful to me, is that many experiences “natural” surpass drugs most of the time, when you’re aware and objective. For me playing in my band, going to a nature park with my partner, a quiet afternoon in the garden with the dogs and the sun.

I’m not doing it justice as it sounds wishy washy but when I last chipped, I spent most of my time high in my dark room, itching, and doom scrolling.

It had a tinge on anything else I did when I knew they were lovely things.

I’m grateful for that perspective and it makes me quite happy and not fancy much more.