• Welcome Guest

    Forum Guidelines Bluelight Rules
    Fun 💃 Threads Overdosed? Click
    D R U G   C U L T U R E

What do you think the future holds for Opioids & pain management?

Yes for GAD. I lucked out with my GP told you my doc is fucking amazing. I had a small diaz script, walked in and asked for clonazepam expecting to either be told to fuck off or at most given the 0.5mg dose. Was put straight on the 2mg. Dosing instructions day to take 1-2 pills a day. Fucking 4mg clonazepam a day mate I'd practically be sleepwalking through life if I followed that! Tell you what though at 1-2mg it is amazing for GAD and doesn't impair you like diaz does. I honestly have no idea why it's not approved for GAD under NICE guidelines. In every other country in the world clonazepam is approved for anxiety because it bloody works wonders.

Ah well can't complain when I have the script, but I know I am very lucky to get it. Hopefully even when I move around I can keep it since I've had it on repeat for so long by this point. I've had other GP's (when my main one was away) tell me "this is addictive we don't like to keep people on it" during med reviews but they still printed out my repeats. My usual GP when I have a med review just asks if I need more of anything ?
 
Sounds like a good setup lol. I shouldn’t complain I am scripted 130mg of my fave opioid a day without any hassle. I might try my luck Fri with my gp. I am sure my Gastro consultant would oblige he does what you said “Anything you need? How many do you want? ????.

I used to be lucky if I got the same gp twice up here, always Locums. In Fulham I had a long standing doc. You are getting me thinking whether to try my luck again now, never had Clonaz!!
 
Might be tricky to get clonaz on top of oxy is the only thing I'd say. Docs are understandably wary of scripting potent benzos with potent opiates. That said they are surprisingly chill about diaz and strong opiates, guess they figure diaz is too weak to cause any problems.

If you just wanna try clonaz there's plenty of real blisters doing the rounds on the markets. I was getting it like that for ages before my script which is how I knew to ask for it hehe.
 
Yeah a few websites stock it I have seen. Last I bought was Bensedin Diaz’s they were quite nice. I imagine you would be fascinated by Methaqualone also that was an experience never to be forgotten!!
 
Last edited:
Galenika, who make Bensedin, also make Rivotril clonazepam. Top stuff.

And oh yeah I'd love to try Quaaludes. I know they still make them in South Africa but also heard there's a lot of fakes going about.
 
So back to:
What do you think the future holds for Opioids & pain management?

Research ArticlePain

A bifunctional nociceptin and mu opioid receptor agonist is analgesic without opioid side effects in nonhuman primates:

"Opioids are among the most effective treatments for severe pain. Their pain-relieving effects are mediated by activation of the mu opioid peptide (MOP) receptor. Unfortunately, selective MOP agonists induce diverse side effects, including respiratory depression, tolerance, hyperalgesia, and dependence.

Recently, activation of the nociceptin/orphanin FQ peptide (NOP) receptor has been reported to enhance MOP agonist–induced analgesia without producing side effects.
Now, Ding et al. have developed a bifunctional MOP/NOP agonist, called AT-121, that showed potent analgesic effects in nonhuman primates without inducing hyperalgesia, respiratory depression, or dependence. The results suggest that bifunctional MOP/NOP agonists might represent a safe and effective pharmacological tool for treating severe pain.

AT-121 suppressed oxycodone’s reinforcing effects and exerted morphine-like analgesic effects in nonhuman primates. AT-121 treatment did not induce side effects commonly associated with opioids, such as respiratory depression, abuse potential, opioid-induced hyperalgesia, and physical dependence. Our results in nonhuman primates suggest that bifunctional NOP/MOP agonists with the appropriate balance of NOP and MOP agonist activity may provide a dual therapeutic action for safe and effective pain relief and treating prescription opioid abuse."
 
Shortec Stublue!! said:
Have you seen Patrick Melrose? If not it is A Benedict Cumberbatch Sky Atlantic Series!! He literally has everything tranquiliser and barbiturate based to hand, and also The qualudes I mentioned, Also they are portrayed in Wolf of Wall st as brutally potent Gaba agonists!!
Click to expand...

Does he play a doctor or an addict or both?
I've always really wanted to try Quaaludes but they were banned like 10+ years before I was born. Wolf of Wall Street made me want to try them more. I tend to like the old drugs. I take Chlorpromazine and Trazodone and I used to be prescribed barbiturates and OMG I miss my Phenobarbital so much. Even though barbs are MUCH more dangerous, addictive and easier to OD on, I can control them so much easier then benzo's. I think I have a great respect for Barbiturates because of the danger. The dose range for Phenobarbital is 60-180mg a day. I got prescribed 120 and never took more than 180mg.
 
Wilson Wilson said:
Might be tricky to get clonaz on top of oxy is the only thing I'd say. Docs are understandably wary of scripting potent benzos with potent opiates. That said they are surprisingly chill about diaz and strong opiates, guess they figure diaz is too weak to cause any problems.

If you just wanna try clonaz there's plenty of real blisters doing the rounds on the markets. I was getting it like that for ages before my script which is how I knew to ask for it hehe.
Click to expand...

From your posts you are the luckiest person in the UK! Wish I could get some of the drugs from my doc that you get!
 
Hey guys, this is hijacking the OP's thread. Please stay on topic or move this discussion to a suitable location.
 
Jekyl Anhydride said:
So back to:
What do you think the future holds for Opioids & pain management?

Research ArticlePain

A bifunctional nociceptin and mu opioid receptor agonist is analgesic without opioid side effects in nonhuman primates:

"Opioids are among the most effective treatments for severe pain. Their pain-relieving effects are mediated by activation of the mu opioid peptide (MOP) receptor. Unfortunately, selective MOP agonists induce diverse side effects, including respiratory depression, tolerance, hyperalgesia, and dependence.

Recently, activation of the nociceptin/orphanin FQ peptide (NOP) receptor has been reported to enhance MOP agonist–induced analgesia without producing side effects.
Now, Ding et al. have developed a bifunctional MOP/NOP agonist, called AT-121, that showed potent analgesic effects in nonhuman primates without inducing hyperalgesia, respiratory depression, or dependence. The results suggest that bifunctional MOP/NOP agonists might represent a safe and effective pharmacological tool for treating severe pain.

AT-121 suppressed oxycodone’s reinforcing effects and exerted morphine-like analgesic effects in nonhuman primates. AT-121 treatment did not induce side effects commonly associated with opioids, such as respiratory depression, abuse potential, opioid-induced hyperalgesia, and physical dependence. Our results in nonhuman primates suggest that bifunctional NOP/MOP agonists with the appropriate balance of NOP and MOP agonist activity may provide a dual therapeutic action for safe and effective pain relief and treating prescription opioid abuse."
Click to expand...

There have been many opioids which claim to have "no side effects" and "no abuse potential" but I'll believe it when I see it. There's no such thing as a drug without side effects and I've yet to see an opioid which at least some people don't find recreational. Like tapentadol is less abusable than a proper opiate but there's still many reports of people getting high on it even though I and many others can't stand the crap. Some people still get high off it.

Oh and Suboxone has had similar claims made about it too but people still get high on that.

Sounds very hypothetical right now too. The only research that exists is that animal study conducted by the people who created the thing. Not a single human clinical trial yet. So again I'll believe it when I see it.

Last time I saw an opioid painkiller marketed as being "non-abusable" it was OxyContin...
 
Last edited:
But have you ever seen a painkiller that works on the nociceptin/orphanin FQ peptide (NOP) receptor. The opioids you're mentioning were developed from 1913 to 1960. Even Buprenorphine was developed in 1965. You don't think some advances have been made in the last 55 years?

Wilson said:
"There have been many opioids which claim to have "no side effects" and "no abuse potential.."
Click to expand...

No opioid has ever been touted to have no side effects or abuse potential after the early 1900's. Name one.
 
Jekyl Anhydride said:
But have you ever seen a painkiller that works on the nociceptin/orphanin FQ peptide (NOP) receptor. The opioids you're mentioning were developed from 1913 to 1960. Even Buprenorphine was developed in 1965. You don't think some advances have been made in the last 55 years?



No opioid has ever been touted to have no side effects or abuse potential after the early 1900's. Name one.
Click to expand...

Tapentadol was approved by the FDA in 2008 and has a dual effect on the mu-opioid receptor and reuptake of norepinephrine. It is meant to be an alternative to oxycodone with lower abuse potential and fewer side effects. It does have less abuse potential, but certainly not zero, and it has plenty of side effects. Not to mention for many it is useless as a painkiller.

Purdue has also created Targin, which as a combo of oxycodone and naltrexone is supposed to reduce abuse potential by being more selective in its opioid agonism, but it is barely ever prescribed because it doesn't live up to those promises.

The drug your study talks about is virtually not studied. It might as well be an RC. It was not even developed by a pharma company. A group of scientists at a university got funding from an anti-drug abuse organisation to do some research, they did one experimental animal test then declared it has no side effects and no abuse potential. This is like me drawing a picture of a car and claiming it's the fastest car in the world. Sorry but the research is not yet there to support the extraordinary claims being made.

Since that one study was done in 2018 where is the development? If that drug seriously was a non-abusable opioid that couldn't be overdosed on but still effectively treated pain, do you not think one of the big pharma companies will have picked it up? Whoever brought that to market would make an absolute killing in the US. The demand for such a drug is massive. And yet I see no indication of any interest from the pharma industry. I see no development, no human clinical trials, no patents, no nothing.

I am simply going by the old maxim: if it seems too good to be true, it probably is.

I don't think anything which exerts effects on the opioid receptors will ever truly live up to those claims.

Just remember, when Purdue developed OxyContin they got it through clinical trials and got it FDA approved as "non-addictive" and the FDA didn't go back on this until the opioid epidemic started. And that was a drug that underwent full clinical trials and FDA approval.

So yes I am extremely sceptical about a drug that has been tested on animals once at a university being hailed as a non-addictive, non-abusable, impossible-to-overdose-on opioid. At least give it to some humans first before you make claims like that.

Again I will believe it when I see it. Never have I seen an opioid that is entirely non-abusable, not even the ones that have only entered the market within the past decade or so.
 
If you'll recall this thread was about What do you think the future holds for Opioids & pain management?

AT-121 is no where near even phase I clinical trials, but is indicative of where things are going and this so called "crisis" is only going to speed things along. Oxycodone was made in 1916 and Naltrexone in 1965. Tapentadol was created in the 80's and is a cousin of Tramadol. Both new benzenoid class meds that don't rely solely on the MOR for their effects.

As you can see the science is going in the direction of using Serotonin and Norepinepherine to augment weaker MOR, DOR & KOR agonist meds. Nociceptin-Orphanin FQ peptide is just another new class of pain med that following suit of the benzenoids, using new methods of antinociception aside from Mu agonists alone. Hopefully the efficacy will improve but the addictive properties are being phased out. Certainly not yet, but give it another decade or two.

Also Oxycontin was never FDA approved as "non-addictive", it was touted as having a lower addiction Liability due to steady state release and reduced peak & trough plasma level profile vs IR. They just used the Ms-Contin data as a model of how OC would perform. OC was purely about money as the patent on ms contin ran out. Guess who helped push the "Pain assessment should be taken like a vital sign" or the 1-10 pain scale. "Purdue Pharma became a Limited Partnership and in 1993 they established Partners Against Pain" to lobby for the undermedicated while OC was in development. Companies worth hundreds of billions of dollars are able to get things done, ethically or not.

I'm not hailing AT-121 as the next pain panacea , just suggesting we're headed in that direction. Tramadol, tapentadol, new cox-2 inhibitors are all proof that pure Mu agonism is on it's way out. Again, what the FUTURE holds for opioids & pain management.
 
Right so if we are looking at the future of painkillers it makes sense to look at what has recently been approved and what is currently undergoing clinical trials. There are a few investigatory analgesics, many of which are synthetic opioids, but none make the bold claims that they are non-addictive and have zero side effects. A lot of them also failed in trials for causing too many side effects with too little benefit over existing opioids, which is precisely why a lot of these newly released opioids were first researched decades ago. They are trying to develop these novel drugs but they usually don't work out in practice once they reach clinical trials. In the case of AT-121 there has not even been a single trial in actual humans on which to base the extraordinary claims made about it.

In fact here is one in particular which is a full opioid agonist that also partially agonises the nociceptin receptor, similar to AT-121, except this drug is actually in phase III clinical trials. It apparently has fewer side effects compared to morphine when used at prescribed doses, but at higher doses those effects come right back. The hope is that this drives people away from abusing it. If it's ever actually approved time will tell. But I recommend looking into that as it'll also give an indication as to if the claims made about AT-121 have any merit, given the similarity in mechanism of action. So far I see no evidence that it lacks side effects or any abuse potential at all.

Since we are talking about the future here we are talking about speculation. For example the above drug could still fail to pass approval for many reasons and again the only research done on it is by the company trying to sell it. It seems to be that the new drugs being developed for clinical trials are increasingly synthetic opioids rather than semi-synthetic opiates. However if the ones currently on the market are anything to go by, those synthetic opioids tend to have more side effects, not less, when compared to natural or semi-synthetic opiates, and although they do usually have reduced abuse potential they are by no means "non-abusable." Even tramadol is widely abused.

From what I'm seeing in the real world, pharma companies are putting out these synthetic opioids and doctors tend to like prescribing them due to the reduced abuse potential, but patients don't respond well due to the nasty side effects so end up back on morphine or oxycodone anyway. And those drugs also end up being abused anyway. For the future to be all synthetic opioids we'd need to see new opioids that don't suffer from increased side effects and are as effective at treating pain as traditional opiates.

It is entirely possible this could happen. But if it does happen I do not believe we'll see any drugs which have no side effects, no abuse potential, and no overdose risk. The most realistic ideal would be a drug with similar painkilling properties to oxycodone but with fewer side effects (e.g. less constipation), less abuse potential, and less respiratory depression. That's pretty realistic and will probably happen in the future.

But a totally non-addictive, non-abusable, overdose-proof opioid? Nah, I seriously don't believe it. I think they'd need to come up with a whole new class of drug to have an effective painkiller with those properties and that would be a very long way off.

Oh and you are not wrong about Purdue of course it was all about money. Like you said the patent for MS Contin ran out. Purdue not only wanted a new patented med, but also wanted to expand their clients beyond chronic cancer patients for more sales. Hence the push for handing them out for any aches and pains. For that to work they needed to convince doctors and patients the drug was safe and not abusable. And they succeeded. Look how that turned out.

When any new painkiller is being created, the same forces are at work. These things still get developed by for-profit pharma companies whose motive is to squeeze as much profit out of their new drug as possible. So they will downplay the risks and exaggerate the pros. That's not unique to Purdue.

That's why I say I will believe it when I see it. My point is that any pharma company will want to claim that their new opioid is less addictive and abusable and overall less dangerous than everyone else's. How that plays out in the real world is another matter. I will judge whatever fancy new synthetic opioids by how they work in the real world, not by the marketing from the company selling it.

If the future of pain treatment is non-addictive and non-abusable drugs it won't be opioids, that's my prediction. I think developments in cannabis based medicine are more likely to go in that direction though.
 
Yes it's going to be a long road to get away from the Mu,Delta, Kappa modulating mode of action pain killers, it's all we've known for what some say is up to a millennium. Even the Benzenoid class which is one of the newer developments, which contains Tap. Tram. and the one you mentioned cebranopadol. While it still contains a benzylisoquinoline backbone like the phenanthrene derivatives the augmenting of MOR modulation with NOP nociceptin/orphanin undoubtedly looks to be the next big step.

They are moving in the right direction, whether it's still targeting the Mu receptor while counteracting negative side effects with nociceptin/orphanin FQ peptide as the next class or a stepping stone to another breakthrough, I can't see it not happening.
At some point it might not be called opioids because of ever changing structures and MOA's. If we can alter DNA with technology like CRISPR -(clustered regularly interspaced short palindromic repeats), it's difficult to believe that something like safe, high efficacy pain control can't be manifested.

Your correct that it's speculation, but at the rate we're advancing it's not so far fetched. Cebranopadol is the farthest along and now being refined by Grünenthal but others in the pipeline being developed in labs at medical schools show even greater promise. I don't see why ones further down the road won't continue to improve.

~Cebranopadol is has qualities that set it apart from current or conventional opioids. It's better tolerated and doesn't affect motor coordination or decrease respiratory rates at normal doses. It does however act as a full agonist at Mu & Delta and a partial at the Kappa & ever important nociceptin/orphanin or NOP. Problem being that it has such strong Kappa activity it can't be used above a certain level for severe pain due to dysphoria. While this is good for reducing abuse it limits it's use in a hospital setting.

~AT-121 is in development at Wake Forest School of Medicine in North Carolina and is not owned by any companies. It's still in development but has reached the stage of Primate testing with positive results and has been filed for FDA phase I trials. It's young but has shown that treatment did not induce side effects commonly associated with opioids, such as respiratory depression, abuse potential, opioid-induced hyperalgesia, and physical dependence. This doesn't mean there are no side effects, but it's a long way from morphine with a similar efficacy. It's a partial agonist and blocks other opioids like buprenorphine does also. Bifunctional NOP/MOP agonists with the appropriate balance of NOP and MOP agonist activity show the most promise for the future.

~BU08028 A novel orvinol analog as a safe opioid analgesic without abuse liability in primates. Despite the critical need, no previous research has substantiated safe opioid analgesics without abuse liability in primates. Recent advances in medicinal chemistry have led to the development of ligands with mixed mu opioid peptide (MOP)/nociceptin-orphanin FQ peptide (NOP) receptor agonist activity to achieve this objective. BU08028 is a novel orvinol analog that displays a similar binding profile to buprenorphine with improved affinity and efficacy at NOP receptors.

~BU10038 After systemic administration, BU10038 dose-dependently produced long-lasting antinociceptive and antihypersensitive effects. Unlike the MOP agonist oxycodone, BU10038 lacked reinforcing effects (i.e. little or no abuse liability), and BU10038 did not compromise the physiological functions of primates including respiration, cardiovascular activities, and body temperature at antinociceptive doses and a 10-30-fold higher dose. Unlike morphine, BU10038 did not cause the development of physical dependence and tolerance after repeated and chronic administration. These in vivo findings demonstrate the translational potential of bifunctional MOP/NOP receptor agonists such as BU10038 as a safe, non-addictive analgesic with fewer side-effects in primates

All of the findings are peer reviewed and published.

Even if all of these fail, a breakthrough has been made just by discovering the combining of MOR + NOP. All of the above wouldn't be special at all without this combination and I can't believe it won't continue to improve.

"The nociceptin/orphanin FQ peptide (NOP) receptor, the fourth opioid receptor subtype, mediates distinctive actions in nonhuman primates which suggests the possibility that activity at this receptor may result in strong analgesia in the absence of virtually all of the side effects associated with MOP agonists."

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

The therapeutic potential of nociceptin/orphanin FQ receptor agonists as analgesics without abuse liability - PubMed

Although mu opioid (MOP) receptor agonists are the most commonly used analgesics for the treatment of moderate to severe pain in the clinic, the side effects of MOP agonists such as abuse liability limit their value as a medication. Research to identify novel analgesics without adverse effects...
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

A novel orvinol analog, BU08028, as a safe opioid analgesic without abuse liability in primates - PubMed

Despite the critical need, no previous research has substantiated safe opioid analgesics without abuse liability in primates. Recent advances in medicinal chemistry have led to the development of ligands with mixed mu opioid peptide (MOP)/nociceptin-orphanin FQ peptide (NOP) receptor agonist...
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

BU10038 as a safe opioid analgesic with fewer side-effects after systemic and intrathecal administration in primates - PubMed

These in vivo findings demonstrate the translational potential of bifunctional MOP/NOP receptor agonists such as BU10038 as a safe, non-addictive analgesic with fewer side-effects in primates. This study strongly supports that bifunctional MOP/NOP agonists may provide improved analgesics and an...
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

A bifunctional nociceptin and mu opioid receptor agonist is analgesic without opioid side effects in nonhuman primates - PubMed

Misuse of prescription opioids, opioid addiction, and overdose underscore the urgent need for developing addiction-free effective medications for treating severe pain. Mu opioid peptide (MOP) receptor agonists provide very effective pain relief. However, severe side effects limit their use in...
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Cebranopadol: a novel potent analgesic nociceptin/orphanin FQ peptide and opioid receptor agonist - PubMed

Cebranopadol (trans-6'-fluoro-4',9'-dihydro-N,N-dimethyl-4-phenyl-spiro[cyclohexane-1,1'(3'H)-pyrano[3,4-b]indol]-4-amine) is a novel analgesic nociceptin/orphanin FQ peptide (NOP) and opioid receptor agonist [Ki (nM)/EC50 (nM)/relative efficacy (%): human NOP receptor 0.9/13.0/89; human...
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
 
Last edited:
ChemicallyEnhanced said:
Does he play a doctor or an addict or both?
I've always really wanted to try Quaaludes but they were banned like 10+ years before I was born. Wolf of Wall Street made me want to try them more. I tend to like the old drugs. I take Chlorpromazine and Trazodone and I used to be prescribed barbiturates and OMG I miss my Phenobarbital so much. Even though barbs are MUCH more dangerous, addictive and easier to OD on, I can control them so much easier then benzo's. I think I have a great respect for Barbiturates because of the danger. The dose range for Phenobarbital is 60-180mg a day. I got prescribed 120 and never took more than 180mg.
Click to expand...

He’s a sort of aristocratic misfit type Chem, bad childhood etc. Tries anything he can get his hands on. Great scene a bit like Wolf of Wall Street where he is off his nut on the “Ludes”. Best to steer clear I would guess lol.
 
Don't get me wrong mate the preliminary research you can see here is very interesting stuff. All I'm really saying is that it's far too early to declare this as a breakthrough that will revolutionise painkillers and bring forth a range of non-addictive opioids. Maybe I am utterly fucking wrong! But the data we have so far is simply insufficient to make such bold claims. The first drug you mentioned, AT-121, has not even begun human testing yet but is already touted as a non-addictive, non-abusable, overdose-proof saviour of painkillers with zero side effects. Surely you can understand how I am sceptical when such bold claims are made on such a flimsy basis.

I find cebranopadol personally far more interesting since it's actually in phase III clinical trials and the results are far more realistic. No bold claims about zero side effects and zero abuse potential. Rather more sensible claims that at therapeutic doses the abuse potential and side effects are limited. This is far more realistic and I can absolutely see such a drug come to market. Curiously though, I can't find much info on completed trials after 2016.

As for the rest of the drugs you listed, again it seems much like AT-121 the data is based on animal testing with no human clinical trials yet completed. So it is simply far too early to say whether they live up to their claims or not.

I also am reminded of what I call the "pharma cycle." You know, a new family of drugs is invented and hailed as effective and safe and impossible to abuse, doctors hand it out like sweets, then later on they work out it was all bollocks.

For a prime example look at how benzodiazepines replaced barbiturates. True benzos are still far safer drugs than barbs. But it wasn't until after benzos became widely prescribed that the medical community eventually realised, hang on a minute, these things are still addictive as fuck and are being abused like a gimp at an S&M party.

More recently (although this may be localised to the UK) we saw the same with pregabalin. It was dished out for anxiety instead of benzos under the belief it was non-addictive and non-abusable. It took about a decade for the government to finally make it a controlled drug and for the NHS to rein in the prescriptions. I could have told you the second I took my first bloody dose that the stuff was abusable and addictive as fuck. But doctors kept handing it out for ages.

So this is another reason I am sceptical about new drugs that look great on paper. We've seen many times in history, a new class of medicines will proclaim itself to be devoid of the issues plaguing its predecessors, and on paper that may very well have been the case. But when people actually start taking the stuff, that's when you begin to see what the true effects are. Rarely do they match up perfectly with the claims made by the pharma company making it.

But it'll certainly be interesting to see what does happen in the future. I absolutely think cannabis-based medicines will become a very big deal soon.
 
I agree with much of what you say regarding cannabinoids or NMDA modulating agents, etc. But the things listed above were tested on primates which is the highest order of animal testing there is. This isn't rodent studies.

If you read further into the studies it doesn't tout having zero side effects, that would be absurd. It just lacks some of the most dangerous ones and problematic ones like dependence, tolerance and addiction liability. Even if they fail to meet some of these claims, if even half are met it's a breakthrough.

Again these aren't magic, end all be all pain meds. Just an idea of where things are headed. Cebranopadol is the oldest and has come the farthest, it is a superior drug to most of the classics, but it still has some issues with too much Kappa activity..

I'm just saying the newer, younger ones seem even more promising IF they even make it. But the fact that several are being developed using a new mode of action by modulating the bad qualities of the classic agonists shows that someday they will get it right.

This is all future speculation as is the title of this thread. I'm not claiming these are going to be perfect, jsut thst they seem extremely promising and follow the same architecture as Cebranopadol which is close to coming to fruition.

Even though there have been tons of snake oil type pharma companies and unethical ones clinging to pure capitalist corruption, I can't use that as a blanket judgement for all new drug development.

I just can't let myself be that pessimistic, on the other hand I'm not going to blindly accept claims of perfection, a balance between the two has to be struck.

I'm only using these examples as hope that things will get better with pharmaceutical technology & science because it's happening in so many other medical fields.
 
That's a very fair comment mate and I agree with most of it.

Honestly the only thing I disagree with is the faith you put in pharma companies. None of them are in this for the common good. They are all driven by profits. Pfizer are the ones who put out pregabalin and they're massive. I am sure they knew full well pregabalin was abusable and addictive, they just didn't care. An addicted customer is a repeat customer.

Pregabalin was touted as a modern alternative to benzos without the dependence, tolerance, and withdrawal issues. It lived up to absolutely none of those claims. It's now become a common street drug especially in Ireland and Scotland.

Another thing to consider is that pharma companies are allowed to be selective with the studies they publish. If I am Wilson Pharma and I am developing a new drug, and I conduct five studies, two show the drug in a positive light and three show that the drug causes severe side effects and is ineffective, I can simply choose to only publish the first two and ignore the other three.

Which is why I hold back judgement until these drugs make it to the market, if indeed they are approved at all. When the only research done on a new drug is conducted by the company developing the stuff to sell to you, and they can choose which studies are published, you will not get unbiased data on that drug unless it is approved and the wider scientific community can run their own trials. Patients can also report previously unknown side effects. That's when you really find out the truth.

It is however very interesting indeed. Bit of a shame to think though that by the time I'm an old man I might be getting painkillers I can't even get mashed off!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top