What do we know about Red Mitsubishis? (Australia)

johnboy

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What do we know about Red Mitsubishis? (Australia - update Oct 25/04)

Over the past couple of weeks ecstasy users across the country were warned that there appeared to be a batch of pills around that could possibly contain PMA. These pills appeared to be marketed as ‘red Mistubishis’. In addition to this warning there was also an ecstasy-related death which the media immediately linked to these pills.

So what do we actually know about this whole story – were there PMA pills doing the rounds and is there any link between these and the death of the Sydney teenager?

First of all what is PMA? PMA (paramethoxyamphetamine) is an amphetamine-type drug with both stimulant and hallucinogenic properties. It has no medical use. Its effects are similar to those of MDA, although PMA is far more toxic. It first appeared as a recreational drug in North America in the early 1970s, usually sold as MDA, and became associated with fatalities soon after it entered into street use. In Ontario, for example, the deaths of nine young people were confirmed to be caused by PMA between March and August 1973.

A couple of weekends ago two young men were admitted to St Vincent’s Hospital after taking ecstasy. One was extremely ill and caused emergency workers great concern. In the following couple of days an email was circulated across the gay community which was based on an element of truth but also contained a number of inaccuracies. It said that two people were admitted to hospital (true), they had taken ‘red Mitsubishis’ (supposedly true), one had died (false), toxicology had been carried out (false), and the pills were 10 times stronger than normal ecstasy (false – we didn’t know that information).

As a result of this email and great community concern ACON issued a warning about the possibility of a particularly toxic batch of ecstasy being on the streets. So where did the PMA come from – who suggested it and what evidence did we have? Well, a quick search of the internet will show you that ‘red Misubishis’ have been linked with PMA since 2000 when there was a death of a young man in Austria. Since that time the PMA/’red Mitsubishi’ urban myth has reared its ugly head a number of times. Over the past week I have done a great deal of searching looking for any hard evidence since that time of a link between the brand and PMA. I can find none.

Sadly the death of the teenage girl last weekend only added fuel to the fire. We are still waiting for toxicology results but most experts believe there is no link between the supposed toxic batch and her death. We could be proven wrong but it is looking highly doubtful that her death was PMA-related.

I believe that warnings need to be disseminated very carefully – we need to have good hard facts to support our claims. At no time was there any evidence to indicate that PMA was contained in any pills in Sydney. We do not want to be perceived as the ‘boy who cried wolf’, or users will simply not believe us the next time.

The warning was definitely heeded by many in the community. People were concerned that they could have ‘bad pills and adjusted their behaviour accordingly. This was an extremely positive response and the community should be applauded for this. However, I would urge all agencies (hospitals, community agencies or governments) to be extremely careful in the future of naming possible substances unless they can be verified by toxicology. Our credibility is of the upmost importance – let’s not lose it!!

Remember: If you do not want any negative consequences, do not use the drug and no matter how many times you have used a substance – never be blasé.

Paul Dillon
NDARC

Originally published in the Sydney Star Observer.
 
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I think its important to add that this can happen to everyone; not only gays. This is analogus to the HIV myth of the eighties, Homosexual people are the same as heterosexuals, same species, same diseases, same reactions to drugs.
 
Is ecstasy use more prevalent in homosexual communities? In the types of circles I move ecstasy isn't really too prevalent anymore, it kind of died out a couple years ago.
 
A bit of context for those outside of Australia. The Star Observer is a gay publication, hence the reference to the gay community. (it took me a while to work out what the hell you were talking about hessel, of course it effects everyone) The email mentioned actually spread far and wide in many different Australia scenes and was covered here in the Aus forums. Is ecstasy use more prevelant in the gay scene? Not really.

Ecstasy isn't prevelant anymore in the US, this we know, but in Australia it is still very popular. There's many theories why this is so but I tend to believe it is in the different ways we take it. In the US ecstasy, and raves, revolved around binging on drugs, which tends to burn people out on specific drugs faster, especially MDMA. In Australia there is more of a tradition of less regular, and less intense MDMA use, one or two pills, once or twice a month perhaps. Different cultures, different responses.
 
The way I used to take it would fall closer to the model you proposed of ecstasy use in Australia, but I have to say I wouldn't cross the street to get that shit today....

But in any event it was an interesting article, highlighting some of the dangers of taking any pill you obtain through the black market. That's why we ought to legalize it, but I guess I'm preaching to the choir here.
 
Great article by Paul Dillon - pity it wasn't published in the mainstream media :|

Incidentally - recent article by Paul cited dangers of combining MDMA with anti-depressants - except if my memory serves me correctly the article talks about SSRIs, not MAOIs. Ayone see this one?
 
Police warn on party drugs

Police warn on party drugs

13/Oct/04

QUEENSLAND police have issued a warning to recreational drug users amid fears a drug dubbed "Doctor Death" was responsible for killing a 19-year-old Sydney woman last week.

Police fear Danielle Chalon died after consuming the toxic para-methoxyamphetamine, or PMA, which they believe some dealers have been passing off as ecstasy tablets.

Detective Inspector Brian Wilkins of the State Drug Investigation Group said intelligence suggested the woman had consumed half an Orange CK (for their Calvin Klein logo) tablet that had been sold to her as ecstasy (MDMA), but may have contained PMA.

"PMA is an amphetamine derivative and in very small doses affects the body in similar ways to ecstasy. However, larger doses of the drug can cause sudden, large and potentially fatal rises in blood temperature, body temperature and blood pressure," he said.

Inspector Wilkins said the slow onset of the effects of PMA might cause users to believe they had taken poor quality ecstasy, which increased the likelihood of them taking a second tablet and could result in a potentially fatal overdose.


He said recently identified PMA tablets had colours ranging from red to orange, with street names such as Red Mitsubishis and Calvin Klein Orange.

"While there have not been any reports of the tablets adulterated with PMA in Brisbane, the death of the young woman provides a timely reminder to would-be users of the extreme dangers of using illegal drugs," Inspector Wilkins said.

Link
 
do you live in US or AUS ?

johnboy said:

Ecstasy isn't prevelant anymore in the US, this we know, but in Australia it is still very popular. There's many theories why this is so but I tend to believe it is in the different ways we take it.


uhmmmmmmm where exactly have you heard or read that the US
is consuming less ? i believe its in fact the complete opposite, the US
is consuming more and more.

its not even that i disagree about US kids binging more on any/all drugs
but hopefully you can back this up with some facts
 
A friend, and fellow Bluelighter, just got back from the Project GHB conference' on Las Vegas where, amongst other topics, the drop off in ecstasy use was discussed. I have seen DEA figures to back this up. It's not that no one is doing MDMA in the US, it is just that use has definitly plateaued and in many areas has dropped. As I said above my comments on binge culture were really just my impressions, but it is a theory that is shared by many others.
 
Fine we disagree. As I keep saying I am basing what I said on talking to people who have broad overviews, ie law enforcement and health people, and you are relying on your own experiences. Micro vs macro. Doesn't make either of us right. Both are valid. Thank you, drive thru :)
 
Fuck PMA. All the more reason for regulation, IMHO.

I mean, a chemist could probably make boatloads of cash as it is from illicit MDMA, but they are so greedy they need to sell people shit that will KILL them?

Fuck that! At least the government doesnt want you dead! How can you pay taxes if you are dead ;)
 
He's right ROLLerskater. It's often very hard to get an objective view on drug use, because you're own view point is always changing, i.e "when I was 5 nobody in america did drugs, because none of my friends did".

If you don't believe him, check out this, specifically figures 2.3 and 5.2

...and am I right in saying that the current state of play with pill testing is still that PMA+MDMA pills can't be distinguised from MDMA+other primary amine? i.e. robadope and marquis.
 
Interesting discussion. True, the numbers for ecstacy use here in the states have plateaued/declined - and this is not the case in Australia. As far as why this is the case I am very surprised that no one has commented on the waning of the ecstacy/rave scene here in the states.

You can make some very interesting comparisons between the United Kingdom and the United States and then the United States and Australia when looking at the rise and fall of Ecstacy culture (call it rave, club, electronic music scene, etc.). Ecstacy culture as we know it today began in the UK back in the late 80s, growing out of the acid house movement - eventually realizing the same cycle that every original music of an era goes through: a passionate start in the early years followed by a peak/plateau then an inevitable phase of decay. In the UK it became the ultimate faux pax to refer to anything as "rave". Outdoor raves became known more and more as "Festivals" and "Ravers" returned to being "clubbers" once again. The same has now happened here in the US.

We here in the states watched as our own scene followed suit in many respects, about 3 -5 years behind the UK. Neo-punk, nu-rock and pop have now ousted the rave scene and its associated trends and taken ahold of mainstream culture. We would be remiss not to take these cultural changes into account when looking at relative changes in ecstacy use here in the states.

I believe we will see a very similar trend play itself out in Australia over the next few years - many involved in the scene down under will attest that the decline has already in fact begun.

As far as the notion that Americans have more of a binge culture when compared to Australians, and that this is the reason why ecstacy use is still popular relative to here in the states strikes me as a bit naive, as it would be based inherently upon relative perception. I actually had to laugh a bit when I read that - having been to many "Aussie bars" both in Europe and here in the US and having had quite a few Australian friends over the years I must say that they redefined for me what it means to binge!

Of course, that too would be based upon relative perception as well. ;)

SG
 
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johnboy said:
Both are valid. Thank you, drive thru :)


its hardly valid and your answer is one that a person working at the mcdonald's drive-thru (like you ) would give

you dont' even live here, ur basing ur assumption on the published report on a country thas has continually about every aspect of our drug culture and ur friend's hear say.

:p
 
Originally posted by BilZ0r
check out this, specifically figures 2.3 and 5.2...

I uninstalled my copy of PowerPoint a while ago, so unfortunately I wasn't able to look at the data you referenced.

But I did take a cursory look at the OAS's section on MDMA:
http://www.oas.samhsa.gov/ecstasy.htm

Although a portion of OAS's overall research includes independent sources, such as epidemiological data, what I saw left me with more questions than answers.

The impression that I got from the majority of OAS's data references for MDMA was that it was obtained mostly from surveys (interviews). If this actually is the case, this is a highly problematic data collection method when trying to gage trends in illicit behaviors (such as MDMA usage). There was even a story recently in Bluelight's frontpage discussing this issue:
http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=161413&r=3

So I decided to try to glean a look at MDMA usage trends by looking at so sources of data, specifically annual drug arrests statistics and emergency room incidents specifically involving MDMA. I quickly became frustrated in that everything I was able to find was limited in scope (only reported by regions and/or by cities).

I didn't spend much time searching, and I feel fairly certain that such statistics should be available somewhere published by an authoritative source.

In fact, the only definitive comment that was able to find on usage trends was this assessment published by the US Department of Justice:
http://www.usdoj.gov/ndic/pubs3/3300/mdma.htm


Originally posted by johnboy
Ecstasy isn't prevelant anymore in the US, this we know, but...

I understand that you are basing your opinion on the data that you've been provided with, but this statement is unequivocally false.


Originally posted by johnboy
A friend, and fellow Bluelighter, just got back from the Project GHB conference' on Las Vegas where, amongst other topics, the drop off in ecstasy use was discussed. I have seen DEA figures to back this up. It's not that no one is doing MDMA in the US, it is just that use has definitly plateaued and in many areas has dropped. As I said above my comments on binge culture were really just my impressions, but it is a theory that is shared by many others.

I'd like to point out that the DEA has a fiscal stake in both demonstrating that: drug use is down (thus proving that DEA activities have been effective); and that drug use is up (indicating that an increased annual DEA fiscal budget is warranted).

When you look at their currently published statistics, it seems rather odd that they list drug seizures only up to 2002. Still further, their reporting of emergency room incidents ends at 2001:
http://www.dea.gov/statistics.html

There is nothing ambiguous about such data (it's entirely black and white), and the information should be widely available, especially to an agency with resources as extensive as the DEA has at their disposal.

I'm not implying that there is any kind of clandestine intent on the part of the DEA for not publishing this data. But, rather, that the DEA "should be" an authoritative source for current law enforcement data insofar as their agency is involved. But that this is not the case.


There many be truth to the notion that MDMA use has either plateaued, or has slightly declined. But I don't think that one can immediately assume a sociological "lack of preference" as the cause. In March, "Operation Candy Box" resulted in removing a large Canadian/US MDMA manufacturer. And it is entirely possible that a drop in usage may be directly related to a decrease in availability.

So, concluding that a decline in MDMA usage is the result of decreasing popularity, may be the same as suggesting that the Irish appetite for potatoes had declined during the Irish potato famine. :D
 
You can't really attatck gathering methods to blast trend data, sure there stats are probably whack quantitatively, BUT, the trends should still hold, even if they drastically underestimate. I mean SAMHSA does ask a crap load of people.

Meanwhile, I'll ask my question again: ...is still that PMA+MDMA pills can't be distinguised from MDMA+other primary amine? i.e. robadope and marquis.
 
That is quite shocking to think that with PMA, only half a pill is sufficient quantity to kill an individual. I am going to have to check this with my attorney. I wonder is it was that raverchick girl, she was from Sydney. Although I seriously doubt it somehow.
 
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