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AADD Moderators: andyturbo
What do pharmacists see when you purchase codeine OTC
- Thread starter EthnoFreak
- Start date
Hi everyone. I've joined just to post on this thread as I came across it while googling this MedsASSIST program.
Personally, I am not happy with this system. I purchased some Nurofen Plus at the end of March and I had my details recorded. That was fine, then I purchased some at a different place 10 days later and I was absolutely hounded. They questioned me beyond belief. "How often do you need it?" "What do you take it for?" "You bought some 10 days ago" She was pretty much going through my health history like, "Okay so last week you had period pain, what do you need it for now?". It didn't make me feel good at all. It made me feel like a junkie. And I never have any trouble buying it because I tend to present myself nicely. Most of the time I get, "Make sure you take it with food" and that's it. I eventually lied and said I took what I needed, then gave the rest to my mother for her migraines and she reluctantly put it through. I suffer from chronic migraines and this system is not going to be good for people like me. Somedays I have to take the maximum amount and somedays I don't take any at all. Do I have to have a doctors note with me now to say I have migraines? I understand what they're trying to do but they're going the wrong way about it. Although I don't think making them prescription only will help either. So far my experience with this system has not been great, but I'm hoping I just got an off pharmacist as you guys seem to have had far more luck with much lower time between days.
I also agree about the privacy. Whether you're using it as directed or recreationally, everyone is entitled to their privacy and it's not particularly clear about what is shared and what isn't, and that it will actually be shared between all pharmacies Australia wide. The ID requested is drivers license, so they can get a few things from that: Name, age, address. Do they also put in notes? I wasn't aware that it was nationwide when I first did it. I just feel like 1984 is becoming more like a reality.
But then I went to buy some toiletries at another chemist a few days later and the person before me was buying some Nurofen Plus and the pharmacist didn't ask them, but I didn't see the MedsASSIST paperwork up at the counter. Maybe it's only a few. From my opinion and from what I've seen, I believe it's opt in as it's not required under the Medicines and Poisons regulations but as I said, my opinion so that might not mean much.
I'm in Perth by the way. In the north. From my experience HealthFirst Pharmacies have rolled it out their shops (although I have only been to one, that was my first recording) and it's generally dotted around the place. From what I've seen (although I haven't actually purchased any there lately, that was where I purchased the toiletries) Pharmacist Advice don't seem to have it.
Personally, I am not happy with this system. I purchased some Nurofen Plus at the end of March and I had my details recorded. That was fine, then I purchased some at a different place 10 days later and I was absolutely hounded. They questioned me beyond belief. "How often do you need it?" "What do you take it for?" "You bought some 10 days ago" She was pretty much going through my health history like, "Okay so last week you had period pain, what do you need it for now?". It didn't make me feel good at all. It made me feel like a junkie. And I never have any trouble buying it because I tend to present myself nicely. Most of the time I get, "Make sure you take it with food" and that's it. I eventually lied and said I took what I needed, then gave the rest to my mother for her migraines and she reluctantly put it through. I suffer from chronic migraines and this system is not going to be good for people like me. Somedays I have to take the maximum amount and somedays I don't take any at all. Do I have to have a doctors note with me now to say I have migraines? I understand what they're trying to do but they're going the wrong way about it. Although I don't think making them prescription only will help either. So far my experience with this system has not been great, but I'm hoping I just got an off pharmacist as you guys seem to have had far more luck with much lower time between days.
I also agree about the privacy. Whether you're using it as directed or recreationally, everyone is entitled to their privacy and it's not particularly clear about what is shared and what isn't, and that it will actually be shared between all pharmacies Australia wide. The ID requested is drivers license, so they can get a few things from that: Name, age, address. Do they also put in notes? I wasn't aware that it was nationwide when I first did it. I just feel like 1984 is becoming more like a reality.
But then I went to buy some toiletries at another chemist a few days later and the person before me was buying some Nurofen Plus and the pharmacist didn't ask them, but I didn't see the MedsASSIST paperwork up at the counter. Maybe it's only a few. From my opinion and from what I've seen, I believe it's opt in as it's not required under the Medicines and Poisons regulations but as I said, my opinion so that might not mean much.
I'm in Perth by the way. In the north. From my experience HealthFirst Pharmacies have rolled it out their shops (although I have only been to one, that was my first recording) and it's generally dotted around the place. From what I've seen (although I haven't actually purchased any there lately, that was where I purchased the toiletries) Pharmacist Advice don't seem to have it.
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I'm starting to think it is opt in, as some have it and some don't. It's very weird.
Anyway, I'll only be purchasing from pharmacies who aren't going to be using it and won't be further consenting for my name to be on this system.
swilow
Bluelight Crew
It doesn't seem like it is a consistent thing. I have had no trouble purchasing codeine products recently, though I haven't been buying it very often. I have a pharmacy where I am friendly with the pharmacist and he doesn't really flinch when I buy it with a few days gap. Purchasng with a 10 day gap should not raise eyebrows really.
The only thing that we who use the products can do is not purchase at places that use this system and go elsewhere. It is literally the only power we have. But yes. I think if you get a doctor's note, that will count for something. I've said that I simply left the medication at work or at home if I am repeat buying within a few days.
I thought they were only going to record license number and date of purchase. I don't think it right that strangers know anything about our individual medical histories. Personally, I am surrounded by pharamacists and my ex-junkie brain just maps them out, I could take you to many suburbs around Melbourne and tell you where pharamacies are :D
![:\](https://bluelight.org/xf/BL_Images/Orig_Emoji/wrygrin.gif "wry grin :\")
Kinda sad TBH, one of the least useful skills I've gained over the last few years... I am willing to argue the point with these people and refuse to give details to them and ensure that they know I will simply go elsewhere. Ultimately, this won't change the system and I don't think is the point, I just want to take a pleasant opiate and enjoy the feeling. Though it tends to make me highly nauseated, weak and sweaty now. With that said, I actually understand the reasoning for this restriction. Given Australia's nanny-state attitude towards drugs, it amazes me that this has not happened earlier.
I actually noticed that some of the forumlation for ibuprofen products seemed to change about 4-5 years ago. Tablets dissolved a lot easier in water, seperated a lot more cleanly. There is one brand of generic ibuprofen/codeine that dissolves within 20 seconds of getting into water. I feel like I could just whisper the word 'water' to them and they begin to dissolve. It seems they are almost made to extract in water
sorepaws
Greenlighter
i honestly think they're more concerned with the adverse affects of ibuprofen and paracetamol than codeine, and wouldn't be suprised if that's the real agenda.
if you have to provide id for something like codeine, you might as well go the whole hog and buy large bottles of rykodeine. or better still, sign up for the 'done %)
if you have to provide id for something like codeine, you might as well go the whole hog and buy large bottles of rykodeine. or better still, sign up for the 'done %)
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swilow
Bluelight Crew
^I don't think going on methadone is a good idea at all even for opiate addicts. Withdrawal from that is awful and massive overkill for someone who wants a buzz or pain relief.
I assume you mean adverse effects of ibuprofen/paracetamol in products that contain codeine? Because ibuprofen and paracetamol are available on the shelves of supermarkets...
While i think you have a point, in saying that the real duty of care being exercised by pharmacists in this instance is (possibly) an attempt to prevent people from deliberately ODing on OTC pain pills for a buzz, i still don't think it is the driving force behind this.
I think pharmacies adopting a voluntarily enacted, non-compulsory form of self-regulation is far more likely to be motivated by the codeine itself; being that it is an opiate, a drug of addiction/recreation/abuse - and the statistical evidence that Australia has a pretty high rates of addictiont ride of codeine addiction.
It seems likely to me that the concern from the perspective of a pharmacist would relate to OTC codeine preparations both because of the addictive nature of the mild opiate, as well as the risk of para/ibu OD.
So in that sense i agree with you to some extent, because i'm sure there are significant amounts of people using OTC codeine products "recreationally" or to maintain a habit, who don't perform a CWE on them first, and simply down handfuls of pills (which can be life threatening and very physically harmful).
So sadly, the attempt to make the OTC version of pills like panadeine less abusable, by adding lots of paracetamol to tiny amounts of codeine, is the thing that has become one of the more prominent health issues with this one.
It would
As for rykodeine - i was never a fan of that stuff. DHC seemed nice, but the gastrointestinal reaction from a sorbitol overdose (bloating, gurgling, gas, diarreoh) made rykodeine a far worse option, at least in my experience.
And like willow, i think methadone would be a step in the wrong direction for most, if not all, codeine addicts.
If pain is a problem, doctors can always be consulted.
But having said that, being addicted to codeine at the moment must absolutely suck.
So my thoughts go out to anyone in that situation.
My tip -seek out any local drug and alcohol services that may be available to you.
I don't mean NA/AA (nothing against 'em - some folks get great help in those groups) - but the sort of drug-focused clinic that can help you through a detox (inpatient or outpatient) and get counselling and whatever else may help.
Because codeine is a drug of diminishing returns anyway (in my experience) - so escalating your use by changing to a different opiate might be tempting, but from what i understand, detoxing from codeine is not as difficult as most opiates. Not to downplay any withdrawal - they can all be brutal - but i think codeine withdrawals are over fairly quickly (due to halflife, metabolism etc) - especially compared to buprenorphine, methadone or even PST for that matter. That can drag on for weeks, even months.
If codeine is getting too hard to obtain, i hope people at least try kicking their habits before moving on to other opiates.
sorepaws
Greenlighter
i definitely agree with you on all points, however my 'advice' of going on methadone is really only aimed at those who do have a problem with codeine addiction, and are finding themselves day in day out having to go out and get well. i was on poppy wash for two years, and was in a constant cycle of that behaviour. im on methadone now, and it's a godsend for quality of lifestyle...most of all for removing all the surreptitious means i used to get medicated.
while on one hand, yes, methadone has far more repercussions with the addictive side, from a harm reduction perspective, in my opinion it's a much better choice than being enslaved to codeine or even worse, poppy wash.
interestingly, at the time of my (various pre-methadone) opiate addictions, there was no way i'd even consider resigning myself to methadone treatment. however, i came to see that as being in denial of having a problem (which ended up spanning over a decade...gulp!). in the end, accepting that for the forseeable long-term future i was unlikely to overcome my addiction, going on methadone was a decision that probably saved my life- one that, in hindsight, i realized i could've easily made years earlier- i just never had the perspective to realize it. i guess you could say that i had indeed come to the end of the road to come to that realization. even though going to the chemist every day sucks balls and the government knows everything about who and what i am, i shudder to think of how i used to go about getting medicated.
though it is the actual drug that is physically addictive, i think getting caught up in the lifestyle around getting the drug can be the true underlying obstacle to change (i can say that from my own experiences).
perhaps suboxone would be better than methadone for someone with a codeine habit, idk. i switched to it for 2 weeks but reverted because i needed the sedation
apologies for derailing thread topic
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swilow
Bluelight Crew
Its actually a good time to discuss maintenance treatments given the state of affairs regarding codeine. Codeine was the first opiate I got addicted to. I eventually told my doctor and he started to prescribe me codeine only pills. No combo. Didn't help though, I was determined and got onto heroin/morphine and then methadone and finally suboxone. Only thing to help me was cold turkey in detox facility... Painful but I couldnt do it the other way.
sorepaws
Greenlighter
oh, definitely. this nanny state situation we're in is pathetic. People are dying because they are forced to be desperate, and the id thing for codeine won't work- it'll just encourage smurfing. there is even a possibility the controlled auditing is done so as to ensure continued poppy licencing, which is governed by the US. interestingly, most of the morphine produced by the Tasmanian Poppy Industry is converted into codeine for the domestic market.
Codeine was the first opiate I got addicted to. I eventually told my doctor and he started to prescribe me codeine only pills. No combo. Didn't help though, I was determined and got onto heroin/morphine and then methadone and finally suboxone. Only thing to help me was cold turkey in detox facility... Painful but I couldnt do it the other way.
opium was my first- and god that was a nightmare withdrawl...i shudder from the memory of morphine also.
stay away from poppy wash- pre thebaine it was OK, but they now mix thebaine seeds in with morphine seeds (i'm sure of it- i've had some sprout and grow into plants, and thebaine sap is pink. morphine poppies bleed white, FWIW).
going cold turkey from 2-3kg seeds a day, i was up for 7 days/nights straight and it felt like i was pissing glass. almost killed me %)
swilow
Bluelight Crew
^That sounds rough. I've heard similar from others... I tapered from suboxone before detox but it was still long and protracted, but manageable. At the tail end, I did a few guided ayahuasca sessions which was insane, traumatic and beautiful. Probably the purging helped. I didn't know my body produced anything that shade of green :D.
The MedsASSIST program is opt in, at present it's only a trial - it is NOT law or legally required by the state or federal government. Your name is NOT recorded anywhere. Your drivers licence number is allocated a MedsASSIST number and the only details they record are. What you purchased. When you purchased. How much you purchased. Where you purchased. If you purchase frequently and from different pharmacies you will be flagged on the system as a possible 'abuser' and the pharmicist will come and speak to you and may refuse your purchase. Pharmacists have a 'duty of care' and if they suspect you're damaging your health they will not sell you the product.
swilow
Bluelight Crew
I was asked for my license a few days ago for medassist. I opted out :D mainly because pharmacist was unable to explain what was being logged and why. He said it was legal obligation. This is in Melbourne suburbs. We both knew he was talking shit...
I just went across the street and got 40 pills no questions asked...
I just went across the street and got 40 pills no questions asked...
swilow
Bluelight Crew
I think it also depends on the pharmacist. The place that asked me for ID subsequently did nor when a different pharmacist was working.
Hey Guys, apparently it has finally came to my town in QLD - the Wide Bay.
Bought some on last Friday - went to an AfterHours pharmacy on Sunday and got blasted saying I bought some on Friday "according to my licence number". I just said whatever and walked out. I haven't gone anywhere else to try yet - but need too before the long weekend, otherwise it will be a very very long weekend.
Has anyone got any updates in regards to this?
(New to the blue light by the way!)
First post here ???
Bought some on last Friday - went to an AfterHours pharmacy on Sunday and got blasted saying I bought some on Friday "according to my licence number". I just said whatever and walked out. I haven't gone anywhere else to try yet - but need too before the long weekend, otherwise it will be a very very long weekend.
Has anyone got any updates in regards to this?
(New to the blue light by the way!)
First post here ???
Help!
Hi All I'm hoping you guys can help me or point me in the right direction thread wise.....
I guess the first point I need to make is that I am dependent on codeine, I am slowly tapering down which has been successful so far, I started this habit to deal with depression issues which I'm now on top of and this is the last thing I need to kick
i got id'd making a purchase about 1.5 weeks ago and then a few days later when making another purchase the same thing occurred and I was refused as far as I can tell through research on the net the law hasn't changed yet and Medsassist seems to be mainly at pharmacies who are members of the guild, I could be wrong but I can't find anything indicating a law change.
my next questions are if I go to a GP is it an option for them to work with me to taper? Or are my only real options cold turkey (which terrifies me) or a methadone or similar program? I am more than happy to attend counselling, have regular blood tests pretty much anything I need to do to successfully kick this I just don't know where to start.
any help / advice / direction to other threads would be really apprecaited
i live in Victoria
Hi All I'm hoping you guys can help me or point me in the right direction thread wise.....
I guess the first point I need to make is that I am dependent on codeine, I am slowly tapering down which has been successful so far, I started this habit to deal with depression issues which I'm now on top of and this is the last thing I need to kick
i got id'd making a purchase about 1.5 weeks ago and then a few days later when making another purchase the same thing occurred and I was refused as far as I can tell through research on the net the law hasn't changed yet and Medsassist seems to be mainly at pharmacies who are members of the guild, I could be wrong but I can't find anything indicating a law change.
my next questions are if I go to a GP is it an option for them to work with me to taper? Or are my only real options cold turkey (which terrifies me) or a methadone or similar program? I am more than happy to attend counselling, have regular blood tests pretty much anything I need to do to successfully kick this I just don't know where to start.
any help / advice / direction to other threads would be really apprecaited
i live in Victoria
swilow
Bluelight Crew
My gp prescribed pure codeine tablets as he was concerned about paracetamol and ibuprofen toxicity. If you mention your own concerns that will help. I got a terribly low dose, 180mg a day and I was taking well over a gram... Better than methadone but, unfortunately, things had to get much worse for me before they got better.. but they got better. Please ask any questions, I've been where you are.
Please ask any questions, I've been where you are.