Dissociatives What are your findings on dissociative afterglow?

[fugme]

Here are several dissos i tried:

- *PCP analogs provide calmness and anxiety free, but can make me emotional numb (yet interestingly sociable, presumably from SRI?)
- 3-MEO-PCE improves mood and positivity if i'm not mistaken
- MXiPr and DMXE are both hypomanic, DMXE more so.
- I'm not sure i noticed next-day afterglow with DCK or HXE, however that might because of other reasons and drug use.

it's obvious to me that increasing tolerance to dissos worsens the afterglow and abstaining for longer periods of time makes for a lot better experience.

I believe using benzos/z-drugs as a sleep aid hinders and impedes the afterglow, especially if its on more energetic and hypomanic side. Does anyone else have experience with this?

 

[Skorpio]

Never good enough to make me not want them the next day.

Usually enough to make me not feel bad from the sleep deprivation incurred from holing when bedtime should be. Coffee even does the trick.

Only once got a strong antidepressant effect from recreational drugs. Took 2cb that was bunk-ish (got threshold effects at a high end dose, within range of placebo), a cloud was lifted.

Dissos are my jam, but I really just like them for the space they give to think. DXM gives an afterglow where I am very "stable", going on my usual run, I fall into a flow state easier and am more resistant to getting jostled out of it. It is fairly negative for social, work, and academic purposes though.

 

[meprobamatedowned]

oh the disso afterglow ... this is just the reason why 3-meo-PCP is my favorite drug in the world i'll give you my 2 cents:

- 3-MeO-PCP : i did not find a real "end" to the trips i took with this one. it just goes on and roots in your everyday life. it changed mine. if i could describe it it would be "objectively surnatural"

- 3-MeO-PCE / 3-OH-PCE : interesting as dissos, but i never thought anything particular of them except that they feel nice and are quite over priced. i recall various moments where i would forget i am dissociated under these.

- 3-OH-PCP : didn't fall for the "opioid affinity" myth, i don't buy it and it didn't feel that way. classic PCP feeling, same afterglow but length is shortened.

- DXM : this one has a very different feeling to it, and it is quite special to me (maybe because it is the first drug i ever did). the day after is either a reborn, or a nasty slimy wake up call that you did it wrong.

- Ketamine : not much to say, short lived, close to no afterglow, but i guess i just did too much of it and since i don't inject, my nose can only handle so much. friends have had ketamine treatment sessions in hospital that have changed their life though.

 

[fugme]

As far as antidepressant effects of other drugs go, i never experienced it from a 1 single substance, but rather the culmination of trying various different things and experimentations with different drug classes. Maybe its possible they can josle my brain out of its usual functioning?

Of course the actual high of 2C-B itself is great but naturally too short lived..

DXM is also a good drug and was my first disso. Pretty decent for doses up to 150mg. However unfortunately it shares cross-tolerance with other serotonergics and i can't really do it in consecutive days like arylcyclohexylamines. Its more of a every other week thing. With low tolerance it can have the best physical euphoria i have experienced from any drug. Just lying in the bed slowly stretching myself feels amazing.

 

[Skorpio]

The thing about the 2cb experience that was odd is how weak it was. I have known and loved a fairly broad variety of classical psychs and never really gotten that kind of lift from them. Maybe never took them when I was down, but even if the effect was full placebo it was more valuable than 10s of introspective experiences in terms of making my day to day better.

In terms of my disso cv, I am pretty experienced in dxm and k, currently trying to end a relationship with nitrous (probably my doc for the past few years). Had a few grams mxe and dealers selling the church of neuroscience pressed pills back in the day. (really loved it).

I am honestly very scared of a lot of pcp analogs. I have always managed to walk a line with what I do, and i think experiencing mania would both impede my life currently and give me a taste for mania. (idk I do tend to fear a good amount of drugs, I think a lot of things are fun but will teach you to like them more and more until it is absurd to go without them).

 

[meprobamatedowned]

The thing about the 2cb experience that was odd is how weak it was. I have known and loved a fairly broad variety of classical psychs and never really gotten that kind of lift from them. Maybe never took them when I was down, but even if the effect was full placebo it was more valuable than 10s of introspective experiences in terms of making my day to day better.

In terms of my disso cv, I am pretty experienced in dxm and k, currently trying to end a relationship with nitrous (probably my doc for the past few years). Had a few grams mxe and dealers selling the church of neuroscience pressed pills back in the day. (really loved it).

I am honestly very scared of a lot of pcp analogs. I have always managed to walk a line with what I do, and i think experiencing mania would both impede my life currently and give me a taste for mania. (idk I do tend to fear a good amount of drugs, I think a lot of things are fun but will teach you to like them more and more until it is absurd to go without them).

Fear is physiologic... natural.
PCP analogs are scary for sure but "the dose makes the poison". It all comes down to dosing, and that works with everything: fentanyl, clonazolam, benzimidazole opioids...
When i first got into 3-MeO-PCP, i would weight 90mg of powder and dissolve it into 30mL of tap water (works fine, i don't know about storage though), that way i could take 2mL and have a 6mg experience which was very much what i always expected from drugs. You know it's that feeling i got when i tried LSD for the first time: i just thought "this is nothing like in the movies" haha. Well I'd say the 3-MeO-PCP is pretty much what I imagined from the movies

 

[Skorpio]

I will say I also fear most benzos (especially hyper potent ones), opioids (just due to their rein forcing effects), strong/high dose stimulants, psychedelic heroic doses (two tabs of typical acid is like a huge deal for me). Some from experience, some from seeing friends who I feel have stronger wills than me suffering.

Pcp analogs scare me because they are notorious for inducing mania. Good chance I could get away trying one, but I feel I would eventually get burned. I have a pokedex approach to rcs unless I convince myself to become afraid.

I think I would feel pcp analogs fit me like a glove though, that is why I fear them. I fear addiction/loss of control rather than momentary bad trips.

 

[fugme]

Not necessarily, i get 0 mania from pcp analogs.

 

[meprobamatedowned]

I will say I also fear most benzos (especially hyper potent ones), opioids (just due to their rein forcing effects), strong/high dose stimulants, psychedelic heroic doses (two tabs of typical acid is like a huge deal for me). Some from experience, some from seeing friends who I feel have stronger wills than me suffering.

Pcp analogs scare me because they are notorious for inducing mania. Good chance I could get away trying one, but I feel I would eventually get burned. I have a pokedex approach to rcs unless I convince myself to become afraid.

I think I would feel pcp analogs fit me like a glove though, that is why I fear them. I fear addiction/loss of control rather than momentary bad trips.

I get mania and i love it
as long as you don't take it too far (for me it's 20mg 3-MeO-PCP)

 

[Skorpio]

I don't think mania is 100% penetrant. Some portion of people will definately be fine with these drugs (as with pretty much any drugs). I just do not want to gamble that I will be able to handle them.

I have experienced mania or something very close to it on a 25I nbome trip years ago. This trip honestly marked a turning point where I truly realized how far drugs could take you away from what is real. After that trip I have endeavored to avoid such states.

I manage my use of ketamine by not getting it more than a few times a year. When I get it I hole pretty much nightly after I complete my daily requirements. It feels soothing to the soul. I worry about getting compounds that are more potent and a gram would last many more doses.

This is all my biases, definately don't feel like I am telling you what to do with these drugs. I just know how I maintain a relative equilibrium.

 

[meprobamatedowned]

I don't think it is 100% penetrant. Some portion of people will definately be fine with these drugs (as with pretty much any drugs). I just do not want to gamble that I will be able to handle them.

I manage my use of ketamine by not getting it more than a few times a year. When I get it I hole pretty much nightly after I complete my daily requirements. It feels soothing to the soul. I worry about getting compounds that are more potent and a gram would last many more doses.

This is all my biases, definately don't feel like I am telling you what to do with these drugs. I just know how I maintain a relative equilibrium.

that's really self-conscious and cautious of you great mindset

 

[Skorpio]

that's really self-conscious and cautious of you great mindset

Somewhat. I struggle with nitrous oxide. When i take out my recycling it often sounds like a pachinko machine. I assign it some value that leads to me not quitting it for mor than months at a time (it makes me feel like I can forgive others and myself for day to day infractions as a third party). This is probably the root of my fear of more robust dissos.

Anyway I'm gonna dip. Didn't mean to dominate this thread as much as I have.

Be well

 

[Asante]

MXE was off the hook.

"Here is twenty milligrams of straight up perfect childhood christmas spirit, and to punish you for indulging in drugs again here's a fantastic day after and 3 weeks of antidepressant effect! That'll teach you, rapscallion!"

 

[Vastness]

it's obvious to me that increasing tolerance to dissos worsens the afterglow and abstaining for longer periods of time makes for a lot better experience.

I believe using benzos/z-drugs as a sleep aid hinders and impedes the afterglow, especially if its on more energetic and hypomanic side. Does anyone else have experience with this?

Yes and yes, in my experience also. Unfortunately I'm not in the best place psychologically and basically can't or refuse to deal with unpleasant, sleepless aftermath without a hypnotic sedative.

But for sure, worsening affereffects is a sure sign of overuse. That said I never got a great afterglow from any incapacitating dissociative, really. DCK I thought I did sometimes but actually I think that was just the deceptively long lasting tail of that particular drug.

The day after a solid K binge these days I usually feel completely wiped out and in need of a benzo... But then I am doing too many benzos and too much amphetamine recently so that doesn't help. Actually session 1 K binge of approx 600mg or so after 4 months near total sobriety and 6 months plus from any dissociatives was not noticeably unpleasant, if a little scattered. My next attempt a few weeks later was noticeably worse.

- *PCP analogs provide calmness and anxiety free, but can make me emotional numb (yet interestingly sociable, presumably from SRI?)
- 3-MEO-PCE improves mood and positivity if i'm not mistaken
- MXiPr and DMXE are both hypomanic, DMXE more so.
- I'm not sure i noticed next-day afterglow with DCK or HXE, however that might because of other reasons and drug use.

The PCP analogues in my limited experience DO have afterglows which are incongruent with the at best just strange and at worst just unpleasant nature of the experience. I base this assessment on a few of my very first dabblings with this class, 3-MeO-PCP, where I was not so into just benzoing away any unpleasantness, and despite feeling I reached the limit of my dosage range at 15mg where I was overcome with a harrowing sense of not being sure where "I" was, while being aware of SOMETHING thinking my thoughts and choosing my actions (retrospective answer - nowhere! The self is an illusion )... The next day despite not feeling particularly socially inclined I I had a date planned which went fantastically well, and I couldn't imagine this being the case in the scattered aftermath of a K binge.

I've also had the we experience a few times of getting to a really nice place on just the right dose of 3-HO-PCP or 3-MeO-PCE, and then while basking in the afterglow just trashing it by deciding to add another dissociative of a different kind... Usually ketamine.

DCK IMO again - any perceived afterglow is illusory because it actually just lasts such a long time after the primary effects have faded. So this afterglow is in fact a residual light dissociation.

MXE is pretty hit and miss for me. Actually diphenidine, interestingly, also gave me a very pleasant afterglow bordering on mania to the point I considered selling almost all my furniture and replacing my entire floor space with foam tiles for exercise and bean bags for hippie style relaxing. I'm not sure how functional it was but it didn't feel bad. Ephenidine on the other hand - the sedating end of the phenidine class - did not give me an afterglow, if anything quite the opposite. So in my experience - there does seem a weird correlation between afterglow quality and the level of stimulation provided by the dissociative in question.

Actually thinking about it... With K, my favourite way to poison myself, I think actually what gives me the largest negatives nowadays is K holing. If I have a short session of functionally stimulating bumps - while I couldn't definitively say I get an afterglow, the aftermath is not too bad. I guess thinking about it that's kind of obvious. Maybe it's a factor with the highly psychotogenic dissociatives that most people just don't dose particularly high which at least partially accounts for the more pleasant aftereffects. I can imagine a megadose of any PCP analogue being more likely to induce an "aftershade" in the aftermath...

 

[RhythmSpring]

Isn't Salvia a dissociative? I like the Salvia afterglow a lot... it is inseparable from the wisdom gained from talking to the plant. (Chew it or make tea for easier, nicer experience)

 

[JackARoe]

Isn't Salvia a dissociative? I like the Salvia afterglow a lot... it is inseparable from the wisdom gained from talking to the plant. (Chew it or make tea for easier, nicer experience)

I wanted to comment in this thread but I don't use the usual dissociatives unless you count nitrous oxide and Salvia

But what I wanted to say about 10 days ago I had a very strong Salvia trip unexpectedly. I had been a while and it was like the plant was waiting for me to check in. Well anyway I had planned a an 4-ACO-DMT trip in the week after except I am still in the afterglow of that Salvia experience so I held off. Still trying reconcile what happened and it's after effects. Dale Pendell talks about the Salvia afterglow and stated the world seemed more intelligent. And that is exactly what I am experiencing so I held off on any other trips while still basking in this afterglow.

There is something so damn interesting about Salvia I wish more could post their experiences but it is not as soft and cushy as say ketamine so it sort of gets neglected Although I have had very euphoric trips on it with wonderful afterglows. So it does have the capacity.

I think this thread is more about the things like ketamine and MXE etc... (I think) But wanted to comment and since @RhythmSpring did I figured I would.

 

[meprobamatedowned]

Isn't Salvia a dissociative? I like the Salvia afterglow a lot... it is inseparable from the wisdom gained from talking to the plant. (Chew it or make tea for easier, nicer experience)

How much leaves do you weight for your tea ? How long do you let it infuse? Or maybe is it extract that you use ?

 

[fugme]

Yes and yes, in my experience also. Unfortunately I'm not in the best place psychologically and basically can't or refuse to deal with unpleasant, sleepless aftermath without a hypnotic sedative.

This was a very good post (y)

Just less than a week ago i was trialing DMXE again for the afterglow, but due to getting used to benzos for sleep i had to take them (etizolam or zolpidem) and it was clear they blunted, if not nullified the hypomanic afterglow i was supposed to have. This wasn't the first time it happened and i have noted it in my personal trip reports before. Furthermore only 10mg of zolpidem i took around 23:30 made me lethargic and without energy at least until 11:30 in the morning and bit afterwards, that's very weird considering the halflife of the drug.
Yesterday i was sober and took 15mg in the evening and woke up fine at 5am to go to work without problem, like its supposed to work.

Couple of weeks ago, maybe a month i tried 1st day MXiPr with etizolam - no afterglow, 2nd day MXiPr with zolpidem - no afterglow, 3rd day MXiPr and diphenhydramine for sleep and although next morning i was intriguingly sedated in a nice comfortable way, i still felt the afterglow, meaning that it doesn't completely blunt it.

Overall as far as this goes in my experience benzos are the worst, antihistaminics last for too long (and might impact the afterglow a bit, i haven't done enough testing). However, not getting any sleep is also bad. It seems the best afterglows i had were when i slept well naturally. (oral) CBD also lasts waaay to fucking long. Maybe smoked THC (weed) or a sedating narcotic would better suited for this scenario?

 

[fugme]

Isn't Salvia a dissociative? I like the Salvia afterglow a lot... it is inseparable from the wisdom gained from talking to the plant. (Chew it or make tea for easier, nicer experience)

Kind of but not really, at least not in traditional sense with NMDA antagonism. Salvia has completely different pharmacological profile and, imo, is as much of a dissociative as something like DMT is.

 

[Vastness]

Interesting you mention diphenhydramine, I've also occasionally used promethazine to sleep instead of benzos and while it for sure does work, my primary goal in taking benzos post disso binge is to nullify a tense, uncomfortable NMDA rebound (from the sedating varieties I mean) and I'm not sure if antihistamines do anything for that except induce an unrecreational drowsiness that eventually drags you into unconsciousness... Hopefully.

Alcohol works also. As an aside, I've found there's really just nothing that dulls the uncomfortable edgy ending of a solid stimulant binge like sedating dissociatives do. Benzos do usually, to some extent, but I've been doing them too often recently and sometimes it's like there's a deeper level of discomfort that they just can't quite erase. Maybe they could if I dosed higher but I try to be strict about not just ramping up doses beyond a certain point. Actually saying that - I'm sure zolpidem would work, it's probably the strongest anxiolytic benzoid I know of even though it's primary purpose is as a hypnotic.

Of course after that... You gotta deal with the disso aftermath. Benzos do help for that definitely. But in the absence of that, so does alcohol, which is also lightly dissociative. But alcohol is such a dirty drug I try to avoid. I just bring this all up because I was just up for 2 days on speed and after finally putting it away I ended up just drinking 3 beers when multiple different types of benzo spread out over a few hours did not seem to be doing what I wanted. Of course... Sleep was what I really needed by then. Not more drugs.