Misc What are you supposed to feel from nicotine and are some people just resistant to it?

[The.Ghost]

I can't find a reliable source at the moment, but my understanding is that the US stuff has barely no nicotine in it. The reason is simple -- it gives you a "teaser" dose of nicotine, which then encourages you to smoke a real cigarette.

 

[jambabomba]

A case of carcinoma occurring from snus use. Snus isn't harmless. It may be far less harmful than other tobacco products, but it isn't perfect. See following case report:

"Oral cancer after using Swedish snus (smokeless tobacco) for 70 years - a case report.

CASE REPORTS
Oral Diseases. 10(1):50-53, January 2004.
Zatterstrom, UK 1; Svensson, M 1; Sand, L 2; Nordgren, H 3; Hirsch, JM 2

Abstract:
Whereas the smoking habit has declined significantly in Sweden in recent decades, there has been a marked increase in the consumption of 'snus' (oral moist snuff). The use of this smokeless tobacco, exposing the user locally to carcinogenic nitrosamines, raises the question - will the increasing use of snuff eventually lead to a greater incidence of oral cancer? We report the case of a 90-year-old man who developed a localized squamous cell carcinoma in the gingival fold under the upper lip, at the exact place where he had regularly placed loose oral snuff for 70 years. Although this is a reminder of a prevailing cancer risk, the time frame indicates that the risk is slight. This is consistent with recent epidemiological reports regarding the minor risk of snuff-associated cancer in the Scandinavian countries.

(C) 2004 Munksgaard International Publishers Ltd."

I am not arguing the fact that you say the snus is 'healthier' than smoking tobacco, but to say that it flat out DOES NOT cause mouth cancer isn't true.
One should also rotate pockets (the spot in your mouth where you place the snus) to avoid inflammation and risk of carcinomas.
Also, 70 years ago when this man started using this product, I'm sure snus was made differently and older ways of manufacture could have been the reason for his -oma, but nobody knows for sure.

One case report of oral cancer and after 70 years of continuous use at 90 year old person? That doesn't sound very strong evidence against snuss, really. At that age you are dying anyway. I've read some studies and they have not found correlation with snuss use and oral cancer. Cancers are even different places where snuss have been used. So this case is extremely rare.

And there's evidence that these nitrosamines -- or something else in snus -- are causing cancer. In Sweden and Norway, where snus originated, snus users have a significantly higher risk of pancreatic cancer.
Snus are also linked to mouth sores, dental cavities, heart attack, stroke, and diabetes risk. And they do deliver nicotine -- an addictive drug."

This is a little misleading information you are giving here. One epidemiological study which has implicated pancreatic cancer relation to snuss use lately is propably a study at 2007 from Luo et all. That said there is a little correlation with pancreatic cancer but again, when saying increases risk significantly is a little confusing. It is easy to mislead public simply by speaking percentage points or relative percentages instead of actual percentages and risks. You can say from that study by speaking real percentages that snus users chance of developing pancreatic cancer was 0.0085% and non-users chance were 0.0039 %. You call that significant risk? It is easy to say in media that snus use increases chance of pancreatic cancer by 210% and same time your chance of getting pancreatic cancer after decades of snus use is about 0.0085%. Also, what they discovered from that long study was that snus use wasn't correlated with oral cancer or lung cancer. "We were unable to confirm any excess of oral or lung cancer in snus users."

Link to study

What is questionable also in your quotes is this:

Michael Eriksen, ScD, director of the Institute of Public Health at Georgia State University

Stephen S. Hecht, PhD, professor of cancer prevention at the University of Minnesota.

So they are US authors speaking about US snuss which is different from swedish snus. I was talking about swedish snus and I admitted earlier that US and Indian snus is different story and I don't disagree they could be dangerous in many ways. Swedish snus is different and when I talk about snus and it's risks I'm referring to swedish snus.

 

[jambabomba]

On a side note I dnt understand how ppl enjou snus or pouches. There's like barely any tobacco in em. = no nicotine.

There is even more nicotine in snus than in cigs. One cig contains average ~1mg. One strong snus I use contains ~2mg and usually I put two of them at time so its about 4 cigarettes.

 

[Captain.Heroin]

Kind of the opposite for nicotine. The more you smoke, the greater your tolerance. After a while you won't get the enjoyable "nicotine rush" from your first cigarette.

I think he's saying once you're craving it, and feel like shit without it, you're going from a -10 to a +10 in terms of affect; whereas when someone starts smoking cigarettes, they typically go from neutral (0) to +10.

After enough months of cigarette smoking, you are right - the negligible effect wears off almost entirely.

There is even more nicotine in snus than in cigs. One cig contains average ~1mg. One strong snus I use contains ~2mg and usually I put two of them at time so its about 4 cigarettes.

Snus does have more nicotine; this is why people who already use nicotine should switch to e-cigs.

 

[pbuilder]

Quitting tobacco is slightly harder than heroin though so people have to be very careful to not do it more than once in a blue moon.

Yea like down508 said, I think this is a pretty biased statistic. It basically comes from the fact that heroin addicts quit heroin, but keep smoking...

The reason for this is that, if you've been a hard drug addict, cigarettes are basically a joke. They have very few obvious in your face side effects, other than a light impact on your wallet (compared to what you'd be spending on a heroin addiction), so their isn't really much of a desire to quit a drug that is socially acceptable, legal, and with no major negative impact on your life. No one goes to rehab for cigarette addiction, at least not many people lol. Where as drugs like meth, cocaine/crack, and heroin clearly have a massive impact on your life, generally destroying everything you have, or care about, finally making you attempt to get clean. Cigarettes just seem like a non-problem if you have ever been addicted to hard drugs.

I don't think quitting cigarettes is harder than quitting heroin, I just think a lot less people see a need to quit smoking, so they don't even try.

 

[pbuilder]

I think he's saying once you're craving it, and feel like shit without it, you're going from a -10 to a +10 in terms of affect; whereas when someone starts smoking cigarettes, they typically go from neutral (0) to +10.

After enough months of cigarette smoking, you are right - the negligible effect wears off almost entirely.



Snus does have more nicotine; this is why people who already use nicotine should switch to e-cigs.

I heard some of those e-cigs have massive amounts of nicotine, and you don't realize how much more you are smoking per day, so if you start smoking regular ciggarettes again you will end up be smoking even more than when you tried to quit with the e-cig. At least that is what one dude posted in a thread on here the other day, in his experience that is what happened. Was smoking 15 cigs a day, tried to quit with an e-cig, started up again with regular cigs after using the e-cig, was smoking 40 a day and had to ween back down to 15 lol. He said that he was getting a lot more cravings after the e-cig.

 

[Mr.Scagnattie]

I heard some of those e-cigs have massive amounts of nicotine, and you don't realize how much more you are smoking per day, so if you start smoking regular ciggarettes again you will end up be smoking even more than when you tried to quit with the e-cig. At least that is what one dude posted in a thread on here the other day, in his experience that is what happened. Was smoking 15 cigs a day, tried to quit with an e-cig, started up again with regular cigs after using the e-cig, was smoking 40 a day and had to ween back down to 15 lol. He said that he was getting a lot more cravings after the e-cig.

That's because you're supposed to gradually decrease the nicotine content of your e-cig.. going from full flavored or highest nicotine count to the lowest or even ones with no nicotine whatsoever. If you just stop smoking the e cigs at the high level of nicotine.. especially if you were just puffing on it all day.. of course you're going to have cravings because you didn't do it right. It's just like any taper plan. Start high, end low, and then stop. It works really well and is 100x healthier for you.

 

[Jabberwocky]

the e-cigs made my smoking habit worse. i had no idea how much nicotine i was inhaling per puff and when i stopped using the e-cig i ended up smoking a pack or more a day until i tapered using normal cigarettes! you need to be careful with those bastard things. get the cartridges with no nicotine in them or they will bite you in the ass.

 

[morphonorconic]

Some people enjoy nicotine and others don't. Nicotine functions as an MAO inhibitor, which increases the activity of neurotransmitters such as serotonin, norepinephrine, dopamine, etc. In small doses it tends to exhibit a stimulatory effect, whereas higher doses are associated with more of a sedative/depressant effect. This 'reward' mechanism is what makes nicotine addictive. When nicotine is combined with other drugs, the effects are enhanced, which is why people tend to smoke more when using recreational drugs.

I've always enjoyed nicotine. I started smoking at young age, quit and started back many times. I quit several years ago and haven't resumed, but I used dip to help quit, which worked brilliantly, but now I've been using oral tobacco for almost two years now. Since the level of nicotine delivered via this method is much higher than with smoking, it is substantially more difficult to stop dipping than it is to stop smoking. But at least my lungs are healthy, and I am back to being a long distance runner/athelete with a high functioning respiratory system.

 

[6apbhmm]

In fact I don't know anyone who enjoyed his very first cigarette. Although the question is, whether it's because non-smoker's body doesn't like nicotine itself or just all the shit contained in smoke itself, lack of oxygen and such.
Nonetheless I started enjoying cigs very fast, I remember my 3rd or 4th cig gave me something I would call rush today.. after all I'm sure that nicotine rush should be considered a gateway drug.. which of course doesn't mean that smoking cigs will get you to shooting meth, but IMO it increases the chance of enjoying quick onset ROAs of all other drugs because quick comeup is.. quick comeup.

 

[Swimmingdancer]

Some people enjoy nicotine and others don't. Nicotine functions as an MAO inhibitor

I didn't think that was correct, I thought nicotine was a drug into itself with a different mechanism of action and that tobacco also contains chemicals that act as an MAOI, not the nicotine itself? [source]. That's why tobacco is more pleasurable and more addictive than nicotine by itself and a lot of smokers don't find they get significant relief from nicotine-only products.

You are right that nicotine is a strange drug, in that its effects change from stimulating to relaxing with increasing dosages and use. This may be part of why it seems to effect people differently who have been smoking longer, compared to people who try it for the first time or only smoke once in a while.

When a cigarette is smoked, nicotine quickly goes from the lungs to the brain and stimulates the release of many chemical messengers such as acetylcholine, norepinephrine, epinephrine, vasopressin, histamine, arginine, serotonin, dopamine, autocrine agents, and beta-endorphin. This release of neurotransmitters and hormones is responsible for most of nicotine's effects. Nicotine also extends the duration of positive effects of dopamine and increases sensitivity in brain reward systems.

Short quick puffs produce a low level of blood nicotine, stimulating nerve transmission. Deep puffs produce a high level of blood nicotine, depressing nerve impulses, producing a relaxing effect. I'm kind of confused about the mechanisms of action in the brain beyond that and precisely why it is different in different doses or different frequencies of use.

But anyway, some people enjoy smoking more than others. It is also usually sort of an acquired taste. Best not to mess around with it for anyone who isn't already addicted, it is a very mild drug effects-wise and is definitely NOT worth risking addiction for.

 

[Thorns Have Roses]

I'm kind of confused about the mechanisms of action in the brain beyond that and precisely why it is different in different doses or different frequencies of use.

I think I've read that at larger concentrations (or if it's there longer or whatever) it depolarizes your nAchRs and starts acting as an antagonist. That might be BS, gonna get off the computer right now, so I can't spend time digging through articles/abstracts.