What annoys me about "blowing up" etc

[VelocideX]

I've decided that the whole concept of "blowing up" is rather fake and puerile.

eg. "man i did xxxx roll trick and blew up so hard!!" or
"let me give you a lightshow and you'll blow up".

It could just be me generalising, but this sort of activity seems to be confined largely to North America - we don't get anything like these phrases down here, nor the equivalent activity
(in Australia)

It seems to me that this sort of behaviour is designed to enhance/amplify the feelings of MDMA at the expense of the social side of the drug.

It makes people want to take MDMA solely for the purpose of feeling good... rather than wanting to be sociable and talk, they always want to be "blowing up" or to make other people "blow up".

Whilst you might argue that making other people "blow up" is sociable, it really isn't. You're enhancing their drug high, but not really doing anything with it.

Taking drugs for the sake of how they feel is one of the first steps on the road to either addiction or self-medication. Neither is good.

MDMA is inherently a social drug - it makes you reach out and connect to others vis a vis "the hug drug" / "the love drug" / "the party drug". In my view, like many others, this drug can make a good time better; it can bring people closer together; it can enhance your appreciation of yourself and other around you.

Merely using it because you want to feel good is antisocial, and perhaps more importantly, portrays MDMA use in a fairly negative light. An outside observer of the first rave scene described above would see scores upon scores of people taking the drug to feel good, and then spending hours upon hours doing things to make the drug feel "even better". It's not particularly positive, and does nothing to lend credibility to the rave scene, nor MDMA use in general.

The second scene described is superlative, in that it furthers the ideals that humans ascribe to, and portrays a bunch of people using drugs not just to have fun, but to better themselves and those around them.

Even if you don't accept that people are trying to better themselves, a sociable, friendly, interacting drug population is preferable (in my eyes) to one who is merely trying to take hedonism one step further.

One is truly a group; the other mere individuals seeking a better high.

 

[PGTips]

I have to admit, the whole "blowing up" thing doesn't appear to be prevalent here in the UK either. Sure, there are plenty of people who use poppers, nitrous and other things, but only once in a while or to make them "come up". Light shows are non-existant, though glowsticks are used a lot (I use them all the time, if not poorly).
In the clubs and events I've been to, the chillout room and areas away from the dance floor are generally populated by people who are blatently high as hell but at the same time talking away to one another, spoiting codshit but being social.
There do exist the people who are too blown away by it all or have just taken too much and they tend to be lying in the corner on their own unable to stand or even talk.

Like you say Velocide, that doesn't seem to be social. If I wanted to listen to music I like and just be incapacitated by MDMA I could do that at home. If I want a "rush" (thats about as close as "blowing up" is here) then the DJ playing a favourite track of mine would do it 500 times more than someone waving glowsticks infront of me, plus I could be part of a whole, being one with the dancefloor/crowd as we all feel the music, rather than being off in my own little world while people think "Why is that guy waving glowsticks infront of that gurning messes face? Looks like a prat!"

I suppose the MDMA experience is different for all of us. Some want the social side and others want the high. I am not an enormously open person normally, and MDMA helps me over come that, and just let loose for a while. Being so "blown up" I can't do anything is great for the high itself but I find it leaves me with few memories of the night and a feeling I missed something.

Perhaps we are justed jaded somewhat Velocide?

 

[VelocideX]

Perhaps, but I think its more than just being jaded. I don't see lightshows here, nor (for the most part) do I see drugged-out wankers.

Sure theres always the fair share of people who've had a little too much fun, but at least they're doing something! Dancing, talking, etc... it doesn't matter what they're talking about (15 yr olds on pills have rather different conversation topics to 20 yr olds on pills, believe me!), but its the fact that they're talking!

Perhaps this is a little harsh, but in some ways the american rave scene has brought the law upon themselves. I'm not saying they deserve it, nor am I saying that the US Governments response is justifiable nor appropriate, but even I get somewhat angry to see a few people lying in the corner doing everything in their power to make their high better... they look like right twats.

I agree - if you want to do that, do it at home.... As I keep saying to people, I want to go up to them and stop ruining "my" rave scene.

 

[vancbc]

An alternate view

I have a bit of a problem with placing parameters on the MDMA experience with the assertion that if you don't use it for social growth that it is a pointless experience.

I have been a conscientous and educated user of MDMA for 1.5 years. In terms of harm reduction, I have fit the 'safe user' model from the first time I swalled the first pill. Because of things I'd read on this board that are mirrored in you guys' posts here, I went into this whole experience with the attitude that things like 'roll tricks' and 'blowing up' were for candy raver kids and were stupid. I deemed it below me to try any of those things.

A few weeks ago at a small rave, I decided to see what it was all about and found a girl who had four diffferent coloured glowsticks. I timidly approached her and said I had never had a 'light show' before and wondered if she could give me one. She came over to where my partner and I were sitting chatting (we're 29 and 38 years old) and began to wave those coloured glowsticks in intricate patterns around our faces. In a sudden rush I felt the warmth and love of an entire universe wash over me as those colours became so warm, vibrant and alive. Far from being antisocial, this little experiment was the catalyst for another healthy chat about the power of positive feelings and how they motivate you.

To say that people should take MDMA solely for 'therapeutic' effects and social interaction and not to feel good makes no sense. People interact socially and are active because they feel good about themselves. To say that people shouldn't take it because they feel good seems kind of strange considering the pharmacological action of MDMA in relation to the serotonin system and what serotonin does in the human body.

Although I am also of the school that less is more and that the best MDMA experience is at a moderate dosage where you 'ride the wave' while still being able to dance and interact with others, I and a host of others who are willing to admit it take MDMA in a club/drug setting principally because it makes you feel so good. Different people experience pleasure and react to it differently.

To me the biggest problem is that people are using MDMA who are too young to be using it. I didn't start until I was 28. I'm not at all suggesting that's a proper age to start, but I don't think people under 18 years of age have any business taking MDMA or any other drug. Then again, that puts me in the same category of placing parameters on an illegal activity in which I partcipate, so who am I to say anything?

In all fairness, I probably haven't experienced many of your frustrations in regard to the drug experience because of my age and the age cohort of the people with whom I 'party'. Our interactions tend to be about the music, conversation and total acceptance of self and of others during a night of wicked music and great dancing.

I think you do have a very valid point about some of the stereotypical 'monged out' behaviour being a catalyst for a negative public image of the rave scene as a whole and for the drug using community. Perhaps it's too harsh, but Bluelight helps contribute to that negative public image. Anyone wanting fuel for the anti drug machine need only come here and read what constitutes over 50% of the posts as to what people are doing, asking and bragging about doing.

 

[drexil_spivy]

Here in the states I noticed a lot of pressure on MDMA users to make the experience absolutely as good as possible. Maybe it's a greater paranoia about physical dangers and a feeling you have to make the best of it. I could be wrong, but things sound more casual and more mature in the overseas club scenes.

When people do ecstasy here, especially during their honeymoon with it, they're not just trying to enhance social interaction or their favorite music, they're trying to have the best night of their lives. They're spending hundreds of dollars and probably haven't rolled enough to call it a lifestyle. It's a Big Deal to them and there's an almost desparate fear that you won't "really roll". A whole slew of psychosomatic roll tricks are used to try and capture that feeling. There are a lot of people at parties here who don't even like dance music but are there strictly for the E experience and the rave scene acts as almost a drug resort for these people, complete with massages and lightshows. That's the culture in which I was introduced to E at least and I see completely how you could call that selfish.

It didn't seem so at the time tho. I figured it was all because MDMA was just that jaw dropping that people fall in love with the feeling and get selfish and neurotic about it for a while, until they finally calm down and realize it's just a drug heh. That explains a lot of "losing the magic" people get as well imo.

Honestly it took me quite a few rolls before I COULD handle anything but the feeling, and got to the point that I wanted to start working with the drug and see what I can do with it socially. I can see how having a more mature culture surrounding the drug in the first place would help people get to that point sooner.

 

[VelocideX]

Re: An alternate view

In all fairness, I probably haven't experienced many of your frustrations in regard to the drug experience because of my age and the age cohort of the people with whom I 'party'. Our interactions tend to be about the music, conversation and total acceptance of self and of others during a night of wicked music and great dancing.

Even in Sydney I see a rather disturbing number of fucked up people at parties, and thats without the roll tricks, blowing up stuff etc...

I'm not saying that "lightshows" can't be impressive (even though I've never actually seen one) -- my point is not in people who do it once, or twice, or for novelty value, its for people who seem to place this above the rest of the experience.

They spend their entire nights doing "roll tricks", or anything else within their power to make themselves feel better and better, and before you know it, they're coming down and doing the same things over and over to try and keep the experience going.

They spend their whole time trying to amplify the drug, and do nothing else. Does that not seem a little odd to you?

I am, of course, exaggerating -- this probably doesn't apply to everyone, but the endless talk I hear coming out of North America about the best ways to "blow up" makes me wonder what else people are actually doing whilst under the influence... anything else at all?

 

[dragonsflame]

Very interesting thread! I'm in the States, and yeah, most people I know do talk alot about blowing up and the tricks to do it. Yes, me too LOL but, at least with the group I'm with, its more than that too. However, we do not have the luxury of raves around here, so we have to rely on small social groups at someone's house. I've only been to one rave and was sober. I can't wait for a chance to hit one rollin'.
I can only speak about my own experience. Perhaps we're more into the tricks because we don't have a huge party scene with the music and lots of new friends to meet. For the most part, we spend alot time talking, massaging, playing with hot rocks, and listening to music as loud as we dare to turn it up. Occasionally, we get a friend who DJs to set up tables and spin for us, which is pretty cool having a personal DJ
I love a GOOD lightshow... emphasis here on good. Velocide, I wish you could see just one with the guys who do it here. It is amazing. (I've tried it, but whack myself too much in the head LOL). Even sober, it's a site to see. Two of my friends have spin-offs. They have to match each others glowsticks trick for trick. When they get really going, are spinning the sticks out on 6 feet of string in patterns, and then laying down on the floor and then getting back up without the sticks ever stopping in a mad whirl of patterns.... there are no words to describe it. I think there is a website with a download of a great lightshow... I'll see if I can find it and post it here.
Anyhoo... back to where I was going.... just for me and my crew personally, blow up tricks just give us that extra boost that you probably get from the rave, but its not all that for me. I prefer the talking and socializing with a good trick thrown in now and again. I just can't see needing all the tricks at a rave when you have so much other stuff going on around you... sigh... I just need a good rave to go to so I would have a better basis for comparison...
okay, nuff rambling for me...

 

[vancbc]

They spend their whole time trying to amplify the drug, and do nothing else. Does that not seem a little odd to you?

You do raise some very good points. Since I've never been in an environment where I've seen even one 'roll trick' outside of that isolated light show incident, I can't really comment further on this with any insight.

However, if what you are saying is indeed the case, then I can agree with you. Being so busy being 'high' that it becomes the focal point of the experience certainly is a waste of what the MDMA experience can be.

Your comments have caused me to do some personal reflection. My first few MDMA experiences were very life changing and very therapeutic and spiritual in nature. Whether it is due to a loss of magic or not, which I highly doubt, I have found the last few times to not be as special.

It seems to me now as I think about it that perhaps this has been because I've gone into the later MDMA experiences with more of a focus on the high itself and how good it makes me feel. It seems to me that the experience becomes so magical when you actually do something with the high.

 

[VelocideX]

^^ and there is it, the second half of the explanation for loss of magic that people don't seem to get.

Sure, the first few times are magical in themselves, but you quickly come to know what to expect, and suddenly "the magic is gone".... so find something else to do that makes it magical

 

[dr. greenthumb]

i disagree with the statement "we don't get anything like these phrases down here, nor the equivalent activity
(in Australia)"

we most definetly do. i get people coming up to me all the time wanting to give me light shows or whatever. it kinda pisses me off but i go along with it anyway...yey.....ye....ye..yey.

 

[galahan]

When I roll I mostly roll with close friends. We get all exited that we actually got some beans! We take one or 2 a piece and wait for the effects to kick in. We get all social and start talking about the experience to come, local gossip, or whatever. When the effects kick in the talking starts. Everyone wants to tell everyone everything. E virgins just can't shut up we usually be polite and let the person finish their statement and then respond.
Last time we talked about god, our girlfriends ( everyone but me had one ) how hard we were rolling etc.

Later we bust out the glowsticks, trip toys, and techno/rap. If we don't feel the music or the glowsticks don't look that appealing then we talk or go outside and walk.

Talking happens every time we roll. It is a very spiritual/life changing experience to talk to your best friends in the whole wide world and be completely open with them.

Last time we rolled I told my 3 friends, whom I have known for like 10 years, that they were my brothers and I meant it/mean it still.
When walking around or sitting around gets boring and the peak starts to come we bust out the glowsticks and start giving lightshows.
We have been playing with glowsticks to techno almost every time we roll, the people who have rolled the most are "most proficient" with the glowsticks. Everyone has their unique style. One or 2 people do a song, then you rotate. It gives everyone a chance to express themselves with their favorite songs/glowsticks. The most experienced members of our group can put you in a trance for like an hour.

To my group glowsticking is almost as important as the social/bonding aspect. We are all getting really good at glowsticking, and when you move glowsticks and MAKE the music turn into amazing colors... It's just amazing.
I would be pissed to be given a "lightshow" by an amature who knows nothing about the glowstick/techno experience, but when one of my friends does it I want to thank the person who does it, and I often do.

I guess our experiences are different than yours, My group lives in a rural area and we don't get xtc more than once or twice a month usually. None of us has ever been to a rave. I want to go to a rave but a rave might detract from me spending time with my friends.
What we do is magical and if you told anyone in my group that we were "wasting" our pills we would laugh at you. Everyone who takes pills around here does the same thing. Either they are "social" or they are social/lightshows.

My first rolls were weak pills and I thought that feeling good and being social was all that there was to ecstasy. Boy was I wrong. A year or 2 later and now I'm hooked on glowsticks, good techno and roll parties

plur!

 

[dragonsflame]

For anyone interested... I found a couple of spots (and my friend corrected me.. LOL what they do is glowstringing or poi- almost exactly like the fire spinners).
www.houseofrave.com has several great videos to check out. I believe the link to the downloads is towards the bottom of the page on the left under "videos". Glowstringing and Poi have their own section. If you got the patience, I highly recommend the biggest file to download.. it is well worth the wait. The guy is awesome.
www.glowsticking.com also has videos. They are free to download, but you do have to register at their site to get them.
I did have another thought... Us Americans do tend to be overindulgent... we want bigger, better, faster, intenser... Hopefully someday I will get to travel over to your side of the ocean and check out the scene. Maybe it also has to do with the fact that you guys have been raving longer than us too.
Galahan, I sympathize! We live in a not so rural area, but raves never happen here either. Good friends more than make up for it though.

 

[Dr. J]

What an interesting read!

This thread was sort of near the bottom, so I'll bump this back up with just a few thoughts.

To me, using drugs has always been an incredibly personal thing. My motivation for using and my hopes for what I get out of the experience are similarly intensely personal. I really don't think anyone can claim someone else is wasting his drugs simply because the way in which he enjoys them does not confrom to some prescribed ideal.

Consider other drugs besides MDMA. When I used to do coke I did it purely for the social aspect. My boyfriend and I would have conversations that would last all day, into the night. We made using cocaine an actual experience. Others simply use coke to feel more sure of themselves. Who am I to say they're missing out on anything?

I only ever use with my boyfriend. To use with anyone else or even on my own would be denying myself of what I see as my ultimate goal--to have a good time and reconnect, on some level, with him. Some here may say that I'm missing out by not using by myself. who cares?!

You raise interesting questions about the role of ecsasty. When I first used it I had no idea about rolling tricks or vicks or anything. I was the only one in our circle who took it and I just danced on the stage all night and then went home after the club closed.

I think that things like light shows and vicks can enhance the experience. I mean, all of one's senses are heightened while rolling--why not take advantage of it?

And, I'm surprised that no one has addressed this yet. You talk of the importance in having conversations and connecting with people. But, doesn't it strike you as odd that often these conversations are fake? By this I mean we all open up and experience feelings/say things that we wouldn't normally. I've had my fair share of nights where I spend it talking with someone and feeling as if we really connect only to find that connection absent once the drug has worn off.

Sometimes it is all about getting fucked up. I think anyone who denies that is fooling himself. Should it be the ultimate goal all the time? I guess it depends on your own personal preferences.

It's late and I've probably rambled more than I meant to...just wanted to offer up some more food for thought.

 

[VelocideX]

And, I'm surprised that no one has addressed this yet. You talk of the importance in having conversations and connecting with people. But, doesn't it strike you as odd that often these conversations are fake? By this I mean we all open up and experience feelings/say things that we wouldn't normally. I've had my fair share of nights where I spend it talking with someone and feeling as if we really connect only to find that connection absent once the drug has worn off.

I'd hardly say that this is fake though.... Just because you'd say something that you wouldn't say (due to lowered social inhibitions) does not necessarily negate its value... though some drug-formed connections will not last, it does have its value in my opinion.

To me, fake is when you're saying something blatantly not true, or perhaps something *different* to what you'd say. So long as what you say is truly representative of what you believe, it's hard to judge it as fake.

 

[some-bloke]

Maybe just my opinion, but I always thought that people will differ in how they react from e.
Some of my friends who drop love to dance while other I know will sit and talk the entire night away.
I think light shows and rolling tricks can be a good thing but there just not to every ones tastes.
I admit that I do get kind of annoying when some one keeps trying to give me a light show, but hay there only trying to make you feel better no harm done.

 

[sourlemone]

Sure theres always the fair share of people who've had a little too much fun, but at least they're doing something! Dancing, talking, etc... it doesn't matter what they're talking about (15 yr olds on pills have rather different conversation topics to 20 yr olds on pills, believe me!), but its the fact that they're talking!

haha, so true. I'm 17 and have had so many funny conversations with people older than me especially, but I met the funniest little tweaker of a kid once...he was 15, at this rave and I found him doing lines of speed in the toilet (on the toilet seat actually) just after he'd dropped a couple e, I stuck with him the rest of the night and we had a ball, he kept saying the dumbest shit about school, life etc. but at least he was talking. I met his friends later on and they were just sitting down staring at the laser shows. boring

edit: I didn't read the whole topic. having read it, on losing the magic when you roll expecting the good feeling (instead of doing things that feel good) I find that if you get into dancing and listening to trance at home (sometimes, well really most nights, if I feel like it, I'll pull out a couple glow sticks and start dancing to my favourite music) it's therapeutic in a way, and makes me feel good. If you can do that, when you do that when rolling you'll have a great time because you won't be worrying about the high. I'm a really talkative, easygoing person normally so this is also heightened when I'm really wired, it's just me but running twice as fast and feeling twice as good. Sitting down and taking it in is ok, but you're missing out if you're concentrating too hard on the drug itself

 

[monkyfunky]

What people want from mdma varies heavily from area to area. The people I know don't ever do shit like 'blowing up'.

 

[4theluvofE]

hmmm

I just want to add that its people like you make people like us (the so called candy ravers) feel unwelcome. And who wants to go to a party/rave where they don't feel welcome??? It sounds like you think your above us because you don't take part in "childs play" as you might call it like the lightshows and temporary cuddle puddles, or WHATEVER it is that annoys you.

Everyone is going to do something different and want something different while on ecstacy...so why do you criticize those who want something different than you? Does that make us bad people; the people soley responsible for giving ecstacy its bad rap? I don't think so.

I personally tend to do what I feel at the time when I'm rolling. Sometimes I DON'T feel like light shows or dancing, and then sometimes I don't feel like talking either and just want to chill in my own little world for a while as i get "blown" away. You know?? I don't think people will say they want the same exact thing EVERYTIME because yes then it does become too routine and the magic dissapears.

My point is this, don't ridicule people and then call yourself some social guru like "mdma should not be used as a drug but a social tool"...fuck that. FLATOUT, mdma it a drug! Okay? Not some miracle pill meant to cure peoples relationships...thats just a side effect of the drug. 8(

P.S. As many people have stated, the ones trying to "blow" you up are only looking out for you...they want you to have a good time. And another thing, I meet most of my friends right after I give them a light show; its an icebreaker and a "hey how are you, wanna be better?"...

 

[4theluvofE]

And by the way I already started a thread back on this days ago. Called , pacifiers, light shows and other childs items...so mnnm!

 

[VelocideX]

I agree that it is a drug, but do you really want to be taking drugs for the sake of taking drugs?

Sure, I've done it, and most pill-takers have... but what do you get out of the MDMA experience? extra energy? love for others? Ultimately the experience has to be utilitarian in some sense - you're trying to gain something that you could not have without the drug.

I'm not criticising people for wanting something different; I'm criticising them for, in part, perpetuating the idea that MDMA is some sort of introverted, utopian-seeking hedonistic crusade.

I don't make candy ravers feel unwelcome at a party -- indeed I think its cute and special that people put so much time into their appearance, even if they do get weird looks on the train on the way home. Hell, I'm a rave DJ, it really doesn't bother me how they dress. It's the way some people behave.

I've seen people in the corner so fucked up that they couldn't move properly. People who've thrown up all over the place cos they took a few too many drugs. Just the last weekend one of my friends (who was working on security for that party) said some girl who weighed 50kg or so had taken some 4.5 pills, threw up and then had to be carried to the St John's first aid.... Is this really childs play? Is this really sociable? Does this portray a good image of the scene?

I realise that adverse events sometimes just do happen, but its people who take increasing amounts of drugs to achieve the high they want that run into problems. Hell some guy in the Sydney rave scene died last year by staying up for 3 days, not eating, and taking shitloads of drugs. He took 5 pills straight up at 4 in the morning. He was found throwing up blood in the toilets, unconscious, and died on the way to hospital.

I realise this probably does not include you 4theluvofE, but it's merely the logical extension of what you see. Lightshows, inhaling vicks, and most other roll tricks are a less extreme reflection of people's desire to enhance their high. It's not the lightshows in themselves that bother me - its the mentality they represent

My point: So long as you haven't gotten weak pills, you're off your face. Why waste the high trying to make it better, when you can do something with it! Dance, give people massages, talk, frolic!

FLATOUT, mdma it a drug! Okay? Not some miracle pill meant to cure peoples relationships...thats just a side effect of the drug.

Many people, including those at MAPS, would probably argue that you're wrong. That MDMA's more legitimate use is probably as a psychotherapeutic tool, used under careful supervision. Of course, I may be presuming their motives without justification, but legitimate psychotherapy is a little more acceptable to most people (myself included) than dyonisian drug taking to fuel weekend long parties, with considerable potential health problems.