Yeah, I didn't include enough background info. For anyone who's curious/looking to ease their symptoms, this is what I've come up with to improve sleep. Some I've always done, some I just added and some don't help but I do them anyway for good sleep hygiene. Feel free to add to the list if you know of anything I missed:
Blackout shades/completely dark environment
Set sleep/wake time (loosely for me - progressive alarm on phone)
Limit caffeine, alcohol and stimulants to morning/afternoon
Drink less water as the night progresses
Avoid tossing and turning - get up if you can't fall asleep and read a book (no lights)
Minimum 20 min exercise (walking doesn't count)
Avoid watching the clock/worrying about sleep
Ritualizing the bedtime process (unfortunately I still incorporate a needle, which is almost a requirement for me to fall asleep)
No naps
Melatonin (my uncle swore by mega-doses when he was kicking, which I'm not ATM [suboxone])
Have you tried the XL version? Some people find it abit smoother then the SR's. Also you really shouldn't take both of the SR's together as it not only increases the seizure risk but it also increases the stimulant side effects. If it doesn't go away trying a less stimulating anti-depressant (Bupropion is a Norepinephrine Dopamine reuptake inhibitor after all) wouldn't be a bad idea. Wellbutrin is really for the type of depression where you sleep too much and have no energy. If insomnia is already a problem it could very well make it worse.
I have considered XL, but I've seen more anecdotal reports of sleeplessness in some way with the XL, which makes sense
in theory because the SR AUC should be lower throughout the time I plan to sleep, right? I know at about nine days you reach a steady state but I'm trying to squeeze every bit of advantageous planning I can out of it. I will try XL... pretty soon, I can't maintain this.
Also, I have had one seizure when I was younger, and it was a mug of wine (I probably weighed 60lb) mixed with I believe my 300mg daily dose of wellbutrin, so I will try spacing the dose out. That seems smart. My doctor should have thought of that. Thanks.
I would like to reduce the stimulant side effects, even though I take caffeine and amphetamines (prescribed, low dose, they don't keep me awake when I'm not on bupropion) during the day. I flush amphetamines out with a special drink solution I've made up, if I remember, an hour or two before bed.
I've tried most SSRI's unsuccessfully (ineffective + sexual sides) and one SNRI made me hallucinate when taken with amphetamines (which I won't entertain going without yet) ...Venlafaxine. There have been a few novel antidepressants but nothing strong enough, that lasts the test of time, and doesn't prevent me from orgasming.
Bupropion is pretty much all I've got. And I do have the lazy, unmotivated, hopeless type of depression, so bupropion is theoretically a good fit. I have all the clonazepam I want but I don't like taking more than 2mg/night and it seems stupid to raise my tolerance for them when they're not effective for sleep - Z-drugs don't even touch me.
There's plenty of natural means that help with sleep. You'd be surprised at how much daily exercise can help. Also being mindful of what you eat helps. Eating a big meal right before bed, and then masturbating, will certainly help. And try to stay away from electronics, they're stimulating and will make it harder for you to fall asleep (this message was written on a phone at 3 in the morning, lol do as I say not as I do
)
If none of that works, there are plenty of medications, both OTC and prescribed, that can help. I'd look into melatonin first, then benadryl if that doesn't work. If neither of those work, try Trazodone or Clonidine or something. If THAT doesn't work, then obvious solutions are benzos (Xanax, Valium) and z-drugs (Ambien, Lunesta.) There's also some new sleeping meds on the market that seem to be extremely effective, like Suvorexant.
If you choose to go the psych med route, I'd recommend doing it as only a temporary thing. A lot of the drugs I listed will ultimately lose their effectiveness after a while, and you'll be left with not just insomnia but also a nice pill addiction to go with it. So do please be careful
Hah! You say natural, I remember I have seroquel on hand. Benadryl makes me have nightmares and wakes me up at almost exactly 3hr after taking it. Also, super sweaty, which isn't normal for me... I don't know how an antihistamine does it. Probably related to stress response of nightmares. Eh.
I've tried everything you mention as far as behavioral changes go. Maybe I haven't made change enough. I mean, clearly, I haven't. A big meal before bed
is key for me. I've been masturbating quite a bit but I don't dedicate one to bedtime. Maybe I will.
I forget everything I knew about trazadone, I forget why I don't like it. I know it's relatively weak in the depression department. But I'll look into it for sleep (I won't take anything that compromises REM, as that's the key piece to what I'm missing.) Clonidine never helped me much when I was using, but now I'm stable on bupe' so maybe I should look into that. My friend swears by it for sleep (near mega dose w/ gabapentin, mega dosed even though it doesn't work like that). Suvorexant I will definitely check out.
I think if you implement some behavioral changes in your nightly routine, it may help.
For instance, maybe try reading before bed rather than watching a screen--the latter which tricks your brain into believing it's daytime. It would also serve to tire you out mentally a little. I'm a firm believer that the physical and the mental are at least connected.
Also, perhaps exercising an hour and a half before bed for a half an hour, then taking a nice, warm shower. Bathing about an hour before bed is known to help facilitate sleep.
Doing some breathing exercises/meditation right when you get to bed could help put you in the relaxed state required for sleep.
Sleep is extremely important. Not being able to sleep can cause a host of negative things, everything from over-eating to paranoia.
Not eating three or more hours before sleep assures that your body won't be physically preoccupied with something. When we eat, our organs generate a lot of activity, something which isn't good if one wants to sleep.
As I said before, sleep is so important. We need it to subconsciously work with, and solve, the challenges to our ego of the day before. If you implement behavioral tactics in the hope of getting sleep, and you still can't sleep, it may be time to talk to your doctor about options.
Does the medication work for your depression?
There are loads of antidepressants to try. Some are known for being quite sedating, others, such as bupropion, for being more activating.
I'm in a bit of a rush so I read all of what you wrote and I'm going to come back to take note of the things I think I can take away from your post, so thank you. Also my failure to give a baseline of where I'm at could have saved you some typing - sorry.
But yes, bupropion is about the only thing that helps my depression, which is why this is so unfortunate.
amitriptyline was probably the best sleep aid i have ever had and i also found it to be a great anti-depressant. Trimipramine which is a even more sedating TCA for most people was also a good sleep aid that helped my depression. Doxepin is another that's supposed to be really sedating but i haven't tried that one.
I honestly would not recommend Clonidine because of the hypotention it causes not to mention the rebound hypertension it can cause if you stop it to suddenly. It can also make depression worse in some people. I haven't heard much good about Trazadone and it get's a bad rep because of the migraine like headaches it can cause due to one of it's metabolites being MCPP.
I've always wondered why a doctor wouldn't try a TCA. I've only been told what I know about them, so I'm not sure, but I've heard they often come with a host of negative side effects no matter which, and thus, aren't in the lineup for traditional therapy.
I'm definitely going to research and bring what I find to my doctor if it seems it will help.
I have felt rebound hypertension from.. I believe it was 2mg clonidine.. so I think I'm sensitive. I do have that on hand too though. Depression, worse? Really? I suppose we're not at the point where we fullyy understand any drug's entire mechanism.
I'm too lazy and rushed to bold my important parts but thanks for all the responses!
