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We aren't responsible.

tommy34

tommy34

Bluelighter
Joined
Sep 13, 2010
Messages
313
Hey everyone, this is a thought i've been working on lately. I'm not saying that this is true to me but rather im saying it's something we should think about.

In psychology there is an answer to almost everything. Weather it is theory or fact does not matter because at the end of the day there is a fact that lies behind everything. So throughout every medical disipline there is a reason that you are the person you are and why I am the person I am. Whether it is an environmental factors, development factor, chemical or genetic we do not control it. Even free will is predetermined. So how can a man that sells crack to a man that held up the local 7 11 be responsible for his actions? How is it that we can justify locking them up in a prison with bare essentials? I do believe this though, prison is barbaric. We should not treat people in such a manner just because they act in a way that is not socially acceptable. I also understand justice but that is as far as my thought has progressed. Let me know what you think. Oh and no, I'm not high, just crazy :)
 
wat

the universe is inherently playful. it is a dance of energy, particles dancing as they lazily fall down their least energetic paths in a multidimensional space. everything is interconnected, and there are no true discrete lines, whether between two parts of an object or a part of an object and your own body (and hence soul). thus absolutely everything is natural, and we evolved in a "natural" probable path that unfortunately includes a lot of suffering and willful infliction of it. awareness is the answer to a collective awakening concerning our effects on the existential pain of ourselves and other creatures.

no action's blame can be fully traced to any particular individual or brain. everything under the sun is in tune. nobody has true "responsibility" for their actions; we have to accept that we became the way we are in rather weird and turbulent patterns of energy on earth, in a way where larger patterns feed on the smaller patterns, and somehow some patterns are able to feel existential pain and pleasure and the senses.

as acting agents in this fractal sandbox, we do have the capability to reach out our understanding, and employ more compassionate behavior. this sort of behavior often finds itself at odds with the prevailing authoritarian hierarchy our species has set up for itself, but our species socially evolves as we modify that hierarchy over time. but even this is part of the energetic particle dance, one meta dance among many.
 
if everything is predetermined, then so is the punishment of those unfortunate enough to be determined to get caught in an act that is punishable in the society they occupy. whether that means a slap on the wrist of being torn apart between two trucks, que sera .... i guess. :\

justice and responsibility, even if fundamentally false, keeps society from crumbling. we're talking damnation either way.


unless you're wrong
 
L2R said:
unless you're wrong
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Highly unlikely haha. I guess you're right. But is punishment making antisocial acts more prominent? How is the treatment of criminals justified? I was told as a child that 2 wrongs don't make a right and i won't be moved on the issue.
 
i agree with your sentiments. not all laws are just, not all sanctions are balanced. the way to go about sorting it out, is one by one.

get active = become powerful
:)
 
Help?!?! said:
We must fear that if we exist or do things for no reason it intrinsically has no meaning or value. Which is obviously quite silly.
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This is the idea of an act as a 'virtue in itself', Nietzsche had the idea but so did Jesus: "to achieve the kingdom of heaven, one must be willing to lose their soul" - reject contingencies and do things not for outcome, reward or punishment, but because it is intrinsically a value in & of itself to you. Never for what it may or may not yield, as that is not valuing the act but the object of what you attach to it.
 
I do not intend to offend, but what is with the posts in this section of the forum. You all sound like a friend I had once that smoked too much pot and spoke words. The words were just that, no meaning and eventually I grew tired of listening to him shit talking. I guess nobody wants to stand up and fight anymore because we are all too busy running a rat race. Its been drilled into our heads that if we place in this race we will get some sort of great reward at the end. We are too selfish to fight for justice and peace :(
 
tommy34 said:
I do not intend to offend, but what is with the posts in this section of the forum. You all sound like a friend I had once that smoked too much pot and spoke words. The words were just that, no meaning and eventually I grew tired of listening to him shit talking.
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You are on a drug related website, dude. If this isn't a proper place for people who enjoy getting off their chops and philofosizing, where is that place?
 
tommy34 said:
I do not intend to offend, but what is with the posts in this section of the forum. You all sound like a friend I had once that smoked too much pot and spoke words. The words were just that, no meaning and eventually I grew tired of listening to him shit talking. I guess nobody wants to stand up and fight anymore because we are all too busy running a rat race. Its been drilled into our heads that if we place in this race we will get some sort of great reward at the end. We are too selfish to fight for justice and peace :(
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Wtf u talking about? People fight for those two things all the time, just probably not your justice andor peace, so that's why it's a bitch and a half.
Well, you just gotta get people to help you fight for your justice and peace, if you're gonna be THAT way about it.
 
It is not true that a lack of free will translates to a lack of guilt, or an exemption from all blame, or punishment. Even in a world where people can't control their own actions, their instinct to avoid being imprisoned certainly will!

Punishing people is simply a means of threatening people into behaving a certain way. It's utilitarian. It's not a claim about the fundamental nature of reality.




You know, truly, each and every one of us are "responsible" for everything that has ever been and ever will be. Everything in this universe is interdependent, and any two things necessitate each other, like the flowers and the bees. So any motion you make, and any action you take, brings the entire world into existence. And vice versa.
 
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As far as two wrongs don't make a right, it isn't wrong to lock some people up, so you're argument doesn't hold. Jail is there, and that's all there is to it.
 
nice post, applecore!

B9 said:
That one rings a bell - maybe a whole series of bells - & it's largely untrue
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life of brian perhaps?
crowd: "yes we are all individuals."
individual: "i'm not!"
 
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