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Wars, Invasions, & Imperialism Thread v. Ukraine & Russia

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I'm kinda surprised that more people aren't denouncing the collective punishment of Russians who have nothing to do with the conflict.
 
JGrimez said:
By that logic then the current Ukrainian government should die.
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But see here's the thing - Yanukovych was a converted pro-moscow puppet who rejected the EU in favor of Moscow

he also killed civilians

where is he now? i'll give you 1 guess....
 
JGrimez said:
I'm kinda surprised that more people aren't denouncing the collective punishment of Russians who have nothing to do with the conflict.
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maybe those people in Russia need to let their government know that they're not happy with the mess they're in now
 
Maybe the regular Russian people that are going to be hit hard by all of the sanctions, for whom there seems to be zero regard, should speak up more?

They deserve it, huh?
 
mal3volent said:
If military options are ruled out and diplomacy isn't working, what would you suggest?

if Iraq and Afghanistan and all of the US's invasions were wrong, why is this ok?
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That's not at all what I'm saying. I'm very much against the Russian invasion, I can't believe this is what you're implying, I've been very consistent in this.
I'm just saying "they should speak out more" is a stupid argument. Russia seems to be completely unresponsive to what their citizens want. It's them that are gonna pay, whatever they'd say about the war or their government.
 
Buzz Lightbeer said:
Maybe the regular Russian people that are going to be hit hard by all of the sanctions, for whom there seems to be zero regard, should speak up more?

They deserve it, huh?
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i didn't say they deserve it

but yea speak up more

we don't look for sympathy from Russia when we have issues at home, do we?

and when did you decide to put the red coat on?
 
Buzz Lightbeer said:
That's not at all what I'm saying. I'm very much against the Russian invasion, I can't believe this is what you're implying, I've been very consistent in this.
I'm just saying "they should speak out more" is a stupid argument. Russia seems to be completely unresponsive to what their citizens want. It's them that are gonna pay, whatever they'd say about the war or their government.
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I wasn't implying anything about you personally. Just asking questions based on your comment that the Russian people don't deserve the economic effects of the sanctions.

I would say no, they don't deserve it. But if you ask whose to blame for their suffering I'd say not us.
 
Mr. Krinkle said:
but yea speak up more
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Many do (at least multiple public figures), what do you expect them to do?
Afaik Russia will also be punishing local journalists with prison sentences up to 15 years if they report "wrongly" on the war.

Mr. Krinkle said:
and when did you decide to put the red coat on?
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Never? =D
I don't understand, every one of my posts on this page are reasonable imo.
 
Buzz Lightbeer said:
Sure, Putin bears most of the responsibility.

spectatorworld.com

The Ukraine invasion is the first social media war

The invasion of Ukraine is not only the largest European land conflict since the 1940s — it’s also the first for the TikTok generation
spectatorworld.com spectatorworld.com

What I was mostly aiming at earlier
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Its funny how much he got mobbed on Twitter yesterday for writing that article. Tons of people who didn't read it were like "what about Syria"
 
mal3volent said:
Yeah, no one cared when the US invaded Iraq and Afghanistan. That's totally how I remember it.

"because they're brown" really Jgrimez? Stooping to the lib playbook?

I rate that video 0/10. Rumble lol.
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I'm a little bit Country - And I'm a little bit Rock'n'Roll!

You will always have people protesting the war in the US,
but never a single country daring to sanction you guys.

Like "no more German tanks if you don't stop the World Tour"
never happened, and that does have quite a ring to it.
Partially because us Germans are still occupied ofc, but still..

With the NATO growing closer and closer to Russia's border,
a lot of this is understandable. Imagine the shitshow that would be going on if Russia built military bases in Mexico.
(that's an argument from the Swiss media, and I love it tbh)
The US always gets this "free to do anything w/o any fucks given by the rest of the world" card,
sure the people protest, but it's not like the protests are stopping anything.

I mean anyone can tell me a story of the far right in Ukraine, sure it's there but it's a minority, relatively,
and Russia doesn't have any humanitarian interests here. They want to stop the NATO from being at their front door/back door,
and logically that is understandable. And Putin is ready to be tried as a war criminal in order to achieve this goal.

I imagine him as never having dropped the pretext of Cold War, and it's understandable.
The Cold War never really ended. It ended for the general population, but certainly not for Russia or the US,
taking a closer look at their deeds since it ended.

Yugoslavia, Serbia, Georgia, Ukraine, Poland, the NATO does have its fingers everywhere,
and if I would be Russia in this situation, I'd be fucking paranoid as well.
What's their goal? Why do they keep coming closer and closer if the Cold War is done,
and after promising they would not move any further East?

That was the pretense of ending the Cold War in the first place.
If the promise that was made to end the Cold War is worth shit,
the Cold War isn't over.
 
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so kill a bunch a Ukrainians, cause over a million refugees to flee west, over 2 million displaced, bomb them into oblivia, because you don't like a sovereign country having western leanings

this isn't 1950 - we really should be past this point and im sorry, but you're all really fucked up for believing Russia has a right to do what they're doing
 
Mr. Krinkle said:
so kill a bunch a Ukrainians, cause over a million refugees to flee west, over 2 million displaced, bomb them into oblivia, because you don't like a sovereign country having western leanings

this isn't 1950 - we really should be past this point and im sorry, but you're all really fucked up for believing Russia has a right to do what they're doing
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that is quite simplified, but technically true.

Yknow it's easy for you guys to talk about this so non-chalantly, you are not the people that are going to die if nuclear measures are being used to end the European conflict or Europe is taken by ground warfare. Bit krass, to say the least.

OK let's say he didn't attack: Ukraine joins NATO, wonderful peaceful NATO. EU is going to buy oil from NATO partner Ukraine, the plan was already in movement, Shell, etc. all bought a share of this. Where does Russia fit into this now? Russia relies on their oil, heavily. This is their #1 source of money.
Also, NATO installs military "defense systems", as always. Russia makes a wrong move after that, taking Moskau is only a matter of a few days, no need to go the way Germany did 2 times and walk through the plain to the Ural, which is an impossible fucking attack.

I'm a bit surprised you see this conflict from just this one side, kind of sad. You're very smart and you should use that to look at all the aspects of this conflict. It's way over 8 years old, might also say it started with Yugoslavia, where lovely peaceful NATO bombed the fucking shit out of a country in the 90s, let's not forget that. And that country is right next to us. Takes me 3-4 hours to ex-Yugoslavia.

This fucking war the US has provoked in Europe is a fucking shame, and you're not the people who are going to die from vehemently provoking and provoking and provoking Russia time and time again. Germany is so fucking crucial to Europe, once the Cold War heats up we're dead. But thank you, US for financing coup after coup in Europe to get us where we are now. It's not like the fight is happening any close to you. The Ukraine is about the distance to Berlin from here.

Yes it is absolutely fucked up that Russia is attacking, but this attack didn't just happen over night. Russia took it up the ass from the NATO for 30 years. Since the 90s state after state joined them and Russia said "stop, you promised", and it didn't stop. Now there's a fucking war, just as the US government planned. Don't.provoke.Russia.

Fuckfaces.
 
dalpat077 said:
just so that you know; i do appreciate your prodding me on the topic. but nope i haven't been I wasn't kidding the other day about my having had a stroke. it has fucked me sideways physically and mentally. hell even i'm surprised at the fallout. point being is if i wasn't a shadow of my former self i'd have made a plan to be there and 'with bells on'.

some advice for my fellow forum members yeah even those that find me annoying;

do not put of doing things until tomorrow i.e. do them while you can and are able to do them.
and more importantly; for fuck have your blood pressure checked often. and look into strokes and their causes. please believe me when i say they don't only happen to old and decrepid people. but when you're young and with it; it's the last thing anybody thinks about i..e only happens to other people. wrong. and can come on so suddenly it's just not funny. i didn't even have the 'classic' warning signs i.e. i simply dropped like a bag of potatoes one morning and even with warning signs and quick reaction by EMS there is such a small window of opportunity to halt further damage from occurring so make some time to go have regular checkups. couple of minutes to get checked out can save weeks if not months of physical and mental shit also worth bearing in mind that high blood pressure not the only cause. extremely low blood pressure (can starve the brain of oxygen and do some real and permanent damage and not something i'd wish on my worst enemies and given that I have a few that is saying something). so better ya'll check to see what your chosen narcotic does to your blood pressure. you may be surprised. a sudden and drastic drop in blood pressure can cause clots to break free when your blood pressure comes back to normal levels. the tolerances are so fine in our arteries and veins it's actually frightening and makes me wonder how human beings actually live to 'ripe old ages'. and i tell you this; once the damage is done there ain't no going back. not like a broken arm or limb that can be repaired and the road to recovery is a long one and there are no guarantees of success either physically or mentally and with physiotherapy: maybe you get lucky. mentally; maybe not.

if there is any piece of text or a post that anybody has taken seriously on mine please let it be the above. it is not me making excuses nor looking for sympathy. but no and under different circumstances; i'd not have hurried myself along to Russia for the express purposes of getting involved in this shit show and offing ukranians for the sake of it mind you i guess if your commander if chief is making the rules and calling the shots. it's not like a person would have a choice.

so unfortunately Moscow gonna have to wait and remain on the bucket list... but thanks @w01fg4ng, As i was attempting to say your prods on the topic helps me keep my eye on the ball.
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Damn buddy. I'm really sorry to hear about this. Wishing you a speedy recovery man.
 
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