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Wars, Invasions, & Imperialism Thread v. Ukraine & Russia

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Every war Putin has waged (Chechnya, Georgia, Crimea, Syria, etc) has been a massive success.
He only acts when Russia's immediate security is threatened, sets limited and realistic goals, and leaves things better than when he found them. Ukraine will be no different.
Compare that to the US.
American foreign policy is reckless, bloody, and the root of much of the world's instability, serving as a catalyst for everything from the rise of ISIS to history's worst refugee movement to Europe to now this perfectly avoidable conflict in Ukraine.
USA defied the UN security council when it went into Iraq. Where were the sanctions against America? Military and financial aid for the Iraqis? The theater of countries making furious moral condemnations?
The rank hypocrisy is what is most irritating of all. If international law was real and actually applied, the entire US leadership would be tried at the Hague.


-Belarus says constitutional referendum passes, revoking its non-nuclear status and paving the way for Russian nuclear weapons in the country.

-The Czech Republic introduces potential 1 to 3 year prison sentence for public support of Russia's actions, expressed online or in any other space
 
Electrum1 said:
Trying to blow up a TV broadcasting tower in Kiev


Click to expand...

The US and its NATO allies are currently desperate to find anything that can be portrayed as a Russian war crime, including a wayward Ukrainian missile that hit an apartment building.

Never forget that these same people intentionally bombed a broadcasting headquarters containing 120 civilians during their bombing of Serbia.
 
December Flower said:
Just look at Crimea.

The state severed from Ukraine, and Russia had soldiers there to protect them from Ukraine.
Western media spin: Russia annexed Crimea, practical.

Same the 2 states in the east, Donbask and Jesus I can't remember the name, Lugansk thanks brain,
they voted to become their own countries. Ukraine bombed them, killed Russians there for 8 years, yeah civilian Russians, those live there. Russia sent help. Hell the Russian language is forbidden in Ukraine, and like 30% of Ukrainians are Russians.
Western media spin: Russia annexed them.

Oh right just remembered. So the river blockade the Ukrainian's built so the Crimeans don't get water anymore (yeah the civilians)
Russia wants to reopen the blockade, Western media spin(at least in Germany): "Now they want to misuse the river to give Crimea water, that's the river the Ukraine gets water from", mhm.
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Crimea was gifted from Russia during the 1950s which in itself was questioned as a violation of the Soviet constitution for many years before the 2014 transfer....so i can see why Russia might of wanted it back and i don't think that was a big deal - more of a technicality if you ask me - but still, it was over 20 years later after the fall of the soviet union - so i think they shouldve taken it back then, not later....

i thought i remembered reading that they had an election in Crimea that may or may not have been rigged too - it was something ridiculous like almost 100% voted to become part of Russia lol we all know that's not how election results pan out - if they would've said 70% ok thats a little more believable
 
JGrimez said:
Every war Putin has waged (Chechnya, Georgia, Crimea, Syria, etc) has been a massive success.
He only acts when Russia's immediate security is threatened, sets limited and realistic goals, and leaves things better than when he found them. Ukraine will be no different.
Click to expand...
Just like when Putin bombed his own people via the FSB and set off the 2nd Chechen war in order to secure his own rise to power? He's a complete piece of shit. He doesn't act in the interest of the Russian people, he acts for his own kleptocratic pals that stole from the Russian people, his own power and his own self-preservation. There's a reason the Magnitsky Act was put into place, because they are thugs and thieves all. Russia is a de facto mafia state.
 
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Mr. Krinkle said:
Crimea was gifted from Russia during the 1950s which in itself was questioned as a violation of the Soviet constitution for many years before the 2014 transfer....so i can see why Russia might of wanted it back and i don't think that was a big deal - more of a technicality if you ask me - but still, it was over 20 years later after the fall of the soviet union - so i think they shouldve taken it back then, not later....

i thought i remembered reading that they had an election in Crimea that may or may not have been rigged too - it was something ridiculous like almost 100% voted to become part of Russia lol we all know that's not how election results pan out - if they would've said 70% ok thats a little more believable
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It's 90% or so, and that's because 88% of Crimeans are Russian
It's their fucking motherland, they really wanted it.
 
December Flower said:
In our media we had an interview of a Ukrainian woman sitting in Germany, filming herself crying hysterically about the situation.

That's the moment where I said "OK there's something wrong with this"

They showed explosions from 2014, and one from a Chinese war as "this is happening right now in Ukraine", it was pretty fucked up.
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Yes, I myself have come across FAR too many things like this. There's one video where a Ukrainian father is tearfully saying goodbye to his young daughter; he dramatically hugs her, his eyes awash in tears. It should've been obvious to any sentient person that the whole thing was STAGED. Like that pic of some J. Crew model smiling and holding an assault rifle; it was reported that she was a "Ukrainian freedom fighter." Uh, no. (She OBVIOUSLY wasn't)

Frankly, I don't like people trying to manipulate my emotions. We've already been through the SHAM which was Covid-19, and you'd think that people had learned to not trust the western media. But nooooo, they're painting Ukraine flags on their faces and protesting in the streets against Russia. Fucking morons.
 
December Flower said:
What changed is the USA funding Svoboda and the ultranationalists.

They're not bombing Russia, they were bombing the 2 now sovereign states that seperated from Ukraine.
All 3 states that seperated from Ukraine did so on their own accord, please don't forget that.
They voted to get out of Ukraine, for which Ukraine started a war against them. And Ukraine voted against anti-Nazism and a resolution https://english.almayadeen.net/news/politics/us-ukraine-vote-against-anti-nazism-unga-resolution

Not sure how voting works in Ukraine, but it at least means either the Presiden, or 51% of the population are far-right.

There's so many obvious facts lying around on the internet, and i'm sick of hearing "Russia is the bad guy"
srsly they're just not. it was a trap by the US. Russia is done without Ukraine.
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I took a look at this resolution, which apparently has been brought up for multiple years by Russia et al. Here's the resolution from 2015:

digitallibrary.un.org

Combating glorification of Nazism, neo-Nazism and other practices that contribute to fuelling contemporary forms of racism, racial discrimination, xenophobia and related intolerance :

digitallibrary.un.org

From the resolution:

"19. Expresses deep concern about the increased number of seats occupied by representatives of extremist political parties in a number of national and local parliaments, and emphasizes in this regard the need for all democratic political parties to base their programmes and activities on respect for human rights and freedoms, democracy and the rule of law and to condemn political messages that have the objective of fuelling contemporary forms of racism, racial discrimination, xenophobia and related intolerance;"

Because when I think of "respect for human rights and freedoms, democracy and the rule of law", I think of these countries:

Belarus, Bolivia (Plurinational State of), China, Cuba, Democratic People's Republic of Korea, Equatorial Guinea, Eritrea, India, Kyrgyzstan, Lao People's Democratic Republic, Morocco, Nicaragua, Nigeria, Pakistan, Russian Federation, Sri Lanka, Sudan, Syrian Arab Republic, Turkmenistan, Venezuela (Bolivarian Republic of) and Viet Nam

-----------------

In regards to Russia's respect for national self-determination, we saw how much respect for that they had in Chechnya; in regards to their respect for the indiscriminate targeting of civilian populations, we saw how much respect they had for that in Grozny or South Ossetia. The difference between the USA and Russia is that the USA will fly half-way around the world to bully countries, while Russia prefers to bully countries in their proverbial backyard.

I actually do understand Putin and Russia's desperation to some degree, with a NATO frontier expanding steadily eastward and very troubling geopolitical developments over the past decade in the border regions like Ukraine, Belarus, and the "stans" (Kazakhstan especially). But I also reject their rationalizations and propaganda regarding this war of aggression against their neighbor
 
Burnt Offerings said:
I took a look at this resolution, which apparently has been brought up for multiple years by Russia et al. Here's the resolution from 2015:

digitallibrary.un.org

Combating glorification of Nazism, neo-Nazism and other practices that contribute to fuelling contemporary forms of racism, racial discrimination, xenophobia and related intolerance :

digitallibrary.un.org

From the resolution:

"19. Expresses deep concern about the increased number of seats occupied by representatives of extremist political parties in a number of national and local parliaments, and emphasizes in this regard the need for all democratic political parties to base their programmes and activities on respect for human rights and freedoms, democracy and the rule of law and to condemn political messages that have the objective of fuelling contemporary forms of racism, racial discrimination, xenophobia and related intolerance;"

Because when I think of "respect for human rights and freedoms, democracy and the rule of law", I think of these countries:

Belarus, Bolivia (Plurinational State of), China, Cuba, Democratic People's Republic of Korea, Equatorial Guinea, Eritrea, India, Kyrgyzstan, Lao People's Democratic Republic, Morocco, Nicaragua, Nigeria, Pakistan, Russian Federation, Sri Lanka, Sudan, Syrian Arab Republic, Turkmenistan, Venezuela (Bolivarian Republic of) and Viet Nam

-----------------

In regards to Russia's respect for national self-determination, we saw how much respect for that they had in Chechnya; in regards to their respect for the indiscriminate targeting of civilian populations, we saw how much respect they had for that in Grozny or South Ossetia. The difference between the USA and Russia is that the USA will fly half-way around the world to bully countries, while Russia prefers to bully countries in their proverbial backyard.

I actually do understand Putin and Russia's desperation to some degree, with a NATO frontier expanding steadily eastward and very troubling geopolitical developments over the past decade in the border regions like Ukraine, Belarus, and the "stans" (Kazakhstan especially). But I also reject their rationalizations and propaganda regarding this war of aggression against their neighbor
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I'm just saying this entire situation is much more complicated than "He's the bad guy"
Any politician with power is essentially a bad guy, but that includes the entire NATO, too.

I mean Chechnya that's a conflict that started in the fucking 18th century,
and a completely different story.

The Ukraine and the NATO advance is just not that simple.
There have been deliberate actions from NATO and Russia against each other for decades.
We're not going to understand the chess board as easily.

There's so many difficult factors and it's his only fucking choice now.
 
Illyria99 said:
Yes, I myself have come across FAR too many things like this. There's one video where a Ukrainian father is tearfully saying goodbye to his young daughter; he dramatically hugs her, his eyes awash in tears. It should've been obvious to any sentient person that the whole thing was STAGED. Like that pic of some J. Crew model smiling and holding an assault rifle; it was reported that she was a "Ukrainian freedom fighter." Uh, no. (She OBVIOUSLY wasn't)

Frankly, I don't like people trying to manipulate my emotions. We've already been through the SHAM which was Covid-19, and you'd think that people had learned to not trust the western media. But nooooo, they're painting Ukraine flags on their faces and protesting in the streets against Russia. Fucking morons.
Click to expand...
That's another thing. I know it is emotional,
but why use the emotional so damned much to get their point across?

I don't like the way we make media here in the West, or how we use journalism in general,
especially in Germany it's so purely pro-USA, even though so many of our population hate the USA with a burning passion.
Like even when the US wars around the world, there's essentially 0 critique from us, when the Russians do it it's all over the fucking media.
First I thought it was only Merkel that was a puppet, but it's the same with the new leadership.

Oh we get legal weed now. Just as I prophesied over 10 years ago: "First the American weed markets have to stabilize, so they can establish their "brand" here", my country is a complete American puppet.
 
Illyria99 said:
Because most humans don't process information clearly when intense emotions are triggered, and generally react without thinking. It makes them much more vulnerable to propaganda.
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yup.

Anyone really wishing to understand Ukraine and why Putin is doing this should watch "Ukraine on Fire", it's even on Youtube.
wonderful documentary from 2016
 
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