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Wars, Invasions, & Imperialism Thread v. Ukraine & Russia

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Nas47 said:
Sick people!All this site going in wrong direction.Xorcoth,Robi,AutoTripper,Nznity and ofcource Darvo.You will miss me
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Having an argument in CEPS is no reason to leave the site mate. Just unfollow this thread, doesn't mean you gotta leave, there's plenty of other forums. People are always arguing in this forum.
 
BK38 said:
What tosh. Viktor Yanukovych was a puppet installed by Putin, aided by the corrupt Paul Manafort (who was convicted and jailed for it) so that Putin could continue to receive kickbacks from Ukraine's oil and gas industry.
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Yes Russia produces and sells gas. Are you getting confused with Joe Biden installing his son on the board of a gas company on a $50K/month salary while he withheld aid to the country on account of the leader firing a prosecutor who was investigating the Bidens for corruption? Why is it OK if western leaders are doing that in Ukraine? You can kind of even understand it with Russia since they are neighbours and geo-strategic trading partners, but what are Americans doing all the way over there pilfering the country?

BK38 said:
He was completely corrupt and he was tossed out by the people (rightly so) in 2014.
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That's an interesting (and deceitful) way to say that he was unlawfully deposed by a Western-backed coup. There is so much evidence for this already, failure to acknowledge shows deep insincerity.

BK38 said:
Also, you are definitely using whataboutism in terms of the West to try and justify Putin's actions; you do realize that both sides have blood on their hands in various theatres, but that doesn't make Putin/Russia right.
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Putin is right when he says that the West has no right to bully, antagonize and militarily contain Russia.

BK38 said:
Did I say anything about expulsion from countries? No.
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BK38 said:
why don't you move to Russia
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^

BK38 said:
But if you are going to support a bloodthirsty, repressive and corrupt kleptocracy like the Putin regime and fuck over the poor Russian people (who I have nothing but sympathy for), then you should feel the consequences. If you like his policies so much, I simply suggested moving there and seeing how nice it is for the common folk.
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What you fail to mention (or realize) is that a significant part of Russia's suffering is due to the West's lengthy and sustained agenda to keep Russia from becoming a successful state.

BK38 said:
Also, it's such an autocratic regime and Putin and his oligarchs/mafia state have so embedded themselves, that the only way to punish them is through economic sanctions. I do not support punishing the common people to punish the common people, but as a means to an end as the only way to possibly bring about regime change
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The irony here. Sanctions disproportionately affect the poorest and most vulnerable segments of society. But I guess their suffering doesn't matter, does it? Fuck em they shouldn't have been born in Russia....
Reminds me of when the US sanctioned Iraq to "attack Saddam" and it led to the starvation-related deaths of 500,000 Iraqi women and children. Sec of State Albright asked if all those deaths were worth it and she said yes.

BK38 said:
I'm not bigoted or psychopathic, but Putin's regime certainly is. You're also dangerously close to an ad hominem attack on me; we know how often you get banned for spreading falsehood and being abrasive... I wonder why? :unsure:
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BK38 said:
If you have such a hard-on for Putin, why don't you move to Russia and you can enjoy being his lap-dog and being sanctioned to the stone age like the rest of the poor Russian common folk?
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I don't get banned for spreading falsehoods. I get banned for saying censored words that would've been fine to say a few years ago.
 
Mr. Krinkle said:
Russia got themselves in a mess - the Ukrainians hate them and they have a reason to fight, they're being fed weapons, and they're dug in...the rooskies still haven't taken control of the skies...and then once the russians claim to capture areas, they're gonna have to deal with on-going resistance - probably forever



and just so ya all know, i don't care who says they're nazis or nationalists - if that helps them defend their country, so be it - being proud is exactly what they need to be right now

they're not gassing jews or anything like that so they're not the same brand of nationalists no matter who says what

they're all Ukrainians and former foes are now friends because they have a common enemy - just like Stalin and the west in ww2 - once that was over, back to being enemies - every country has it's own domestic issues with warring factions who don't agree - and that's there's to work on - but once they're attacked, they're all on the same team - which is what would happen here too and most everywhere else


it's like you guys are promoting division on this because you're not happy with the unity that you're seeing

like i said, you guys are weird sometimes
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lmao supporting Nazis to kill Russians. Classy.

You're also acting if "Ukrainians hate Russians". What about the significant portion of the country who support Russia?
 
I don't know if this has already been discussed because I can't be arsed to read all 56 pages.

But do you think this would help happened if Trump was still president? I'm no lover of Trump, but I do think he was a mad enough bastard to make Putin think twice about starting this shit.
 
JGrimez said:
Yes Russia produces and sells gas. Are you getting confused with Joe Biden installing his son on the board of a gas company on a $50K/month salary while he withheld aid to the country on account of the leader firing a prosecutor who was investigating the Bidens for corruption? Why is it OK if western leaders are doing that in Ukraine? You can kind of even understand it with Russia since they are neighbours and geo-strategic trading partners, but what are Americans doing all the way over there pilfering the country?


That's an interesting (and deceitful) way to say that he was unlawfully deposed by a Western-backed coup. There is so much evidence for this already, failure to acknowledge shows deep insincerity.


Putin is right when he says that the West has no right to bully, antagonize and militarily contain Russia.



^


What you fail to mention (or realize) is that a significant part of Russia's suffering is due to the West's lengthy and sustained agenda to keep Russia from becoming a successful state.


The irony here. Sanctions disproportionately affect the poorest and most vulnerable segments of society. But I guess their suffering doesn't matter, does it? Fuck em they shouldn't have been born in Russia....
Reminds me of when the US sanctioned Iraq to "attack Saddam" and it led to the starvation-related deaths of 500,000 Iraqi women and children. Sec of State Albright asked if all those deaths were worth it and she said yes.




I don't get banned for spreading falsehoods. I get banned for saying censored words that would've been fine to say a few years ago.
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Not a single source. You have no credibility. There's literally no point in trying to debate you with your baseless arguments.
 
F.U.B.A.R. said:
I don't know if this has already been discussed because I can't be arsed to read all 56 pages.

But do you think this would help happened if Trump was still president? I'm no lover of Trump, but I do think he was a mad enough bastard to make Putin think twice about starting this shit.
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I'm sure it still would've happened. Trump was tough on the "shit hole countries" aka third world countries that many are trying to leave, but he totally kowtowed to powerful leaders like Putin. Imo, the policy would be completely different and, likely against public desire, the US would be more supportive of Putin.

Or the military industrial complex that controls the US government would have whipped Trump into shape to follow what they truly desire, fucking massive world killing war for the sake of profit of a few.

I could see it having gone either way.
 
BK38 said:
Not a single source. You have no credibility. There's literally no point in trying to debate you with your baseless arguments.
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I'm not here to hold your hand. I'm here to dispel your lies. And I can't just collate years of research into a single source. All of my claims are easily verifiable through open-source research. If you asked for a source of a specific claim then I could present one.


"We are not Ukrainian. We are Black. So how can we fight for Ukraine?"
 
JGrimez said:
I don't get banned for spreading falsehoods. I get banned for saying censored words that would've been fine to say a few years ago.
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It's almost like most of the world is trying to evolve past pointlessly abusive and offensive language while some of you are committed to an antiquated policy of being as disrespectful and callous as possible.
 
JGrimez said:
I'm not here to hold your hand. I'm here to dispel your lies. And I can't just collate years of research into a single source. All of my claims are easily verifiable through open-source research. If you asked for a source of a specific claim then I could present one.


"We are not Ukrainian. We are Black. So how can we fight for Ukraine?"
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What a cop out. You are not arguing in good faith. I didn't ask for my hand to be held, I was asking for sources/evidence for your bold claims; I asked you for specific sources in my earlier post! I refuted every one of your "points" with evidence that can easily be cross-referenced. Nice job on essentially pointing out that racism exists in Eastern Europe... that's obvious and irrelevant. The rest of your statement is basically "Do yOuR rEsEaRcH"

I don't have the time to teach you how to argue properly.
 
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deficiT said:
It's almost like most of the world is trying to evolve past pointlessly abusive and offensive language while some of you are committed to an antiquated policy of being as disrespectful and callous as possible.
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Offensive to who? I'm offended by the censorship.
It's virtue-signalling.

BK38 said:
What a cop out. You are not arguing in good faith. I didn't ask for my hand to be held, I was asking for sources/evidence for your bold claims; I asked you for specific sources in my earlier post! I refuted every one of yours "points" with evidence that can easily be cross-referenced. Nice job on essentially pointing out that racism exists in Eastern Europe... that's obvious and irrelevant. The rest of your statement is basically "Do yOuR rEsEaRcH"

I don't have the time to teach you how to argue properly.
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I asked for clarification of one of your claims and instead you asked me for sources for a nonexistent claim. Be more specific.
 
JGrimez said:
I asked for clarification of one of your claims and instead you asked me for sources for a nonexistent claim. Be more specific.
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Well, I did ask you, you just either ignored it or didn't read it properly. We can start here:

oHDfnuD.png
 
I definitely think it would have happened with Trump in power. You can see the way his supporters quickly start to spew the pro Russia rhetoric after he did. Its not a stretch to believe he would have the same policy in office.

Its exactly like when he let Turkey attack our kurdish allies.

That was so painful to watch and such a dark day to be an US citizen.

The helplessness of seeing people we worked with and promised to keep safe if they took down the barriers they had built between themselves and Turkey.

The parallels between that and this situation are so similar.

We promise if countries make themselves less safe so that their aggressive neighbors don’t feel threatened (Turkey; take your walls down, ukraine get rid of your nuclear weapons) we will get their backs and then we fuck them over.

No one should trust the United States word it’s worthless.

It’s embarrassing.

I love that song perfect day “you’re going reap just what you sow”

All empires have a rise and fall.

It’s the USA‘s time; we are falling.

Afghanistan; they call it the graveyard of empires for a reason.
 
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