Info warnings and infractions

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TALLY 2.0

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Life aint nothin but bitches and money...and I don
Ive been looking through the rules and I have not been able to find anything on infractions and how many equals what. All I have been able to find is things on warnings.

nowhere does it talk about how many infractions equal ban or do you add the warnings and infractions up to get a ban or are they separate?

greenlighters guide said:
Warnings
Warnings are issued by staff when a member violates the site user agreement (BLUA) or forum specific guidelines (you should be aware of any forum guidelines before posting). Warnings are typically given a value of 1 pt and most will expire within 1 year. Stronger warnings can be issued if the situation requires.

Temporary Bans
Issued by Sr. Staff (senior mods and admins). Sr. Staff will issue a temporary ban if they feel a member is disrupting the site and not changing the behaviour that incurred a warning. There is no set number of warnings or points to earn a temporary ban, as we trust the judgment of the Sr. Staff to balance the number of warnings with they type of offenses in making this decision. The length of the temporary ban will be determined by sr. staff, typically 3 days to 2 weeks. At the end of a temporary ban, the account will become active again. If you continue to disrupt after your return, you will be permanently banned.

Bans will be automatically issued when the following amounts of active points are obtained on one's record:
2 points: 1 day
4 points: 3 days
5 points: 1 week
6 points: 2 weeks
7 points: 1 month
8 points: 3 months
9 points: 6 months
10 points: 1 year

See, no talk of infractions, only warnings. I dont think we should be given something like that unless it is in writing. If it is not in writing, then it is not a contract.
 
You do realize that bringing up the fact that infractions are not included in the rules will earn you 2 demerit points, a sad face, and a red exclamation point on your permanent record don't you?!?

That being said as someone who has had their fair share of warning and infractions...a warning as I've heard it used is just a type of infraction where no points are obtained. I agree it should be in writing though.
 
Ive been looking through the rules and I have not been able to find anything on infractions and how many equals what. All I have been able to find is things on warnings.

nowhere does it talk about how many infractions equal ban or do you add the warnings and infractions up to get a ban or are they separate?



See, no talk of infractions, only warnings. I dont think we should be given something like that unless it is in writing. If it is not in writing, then it is not a contract.
That is antiquated and needs to be fixed at some point. When it was written warnings were what are now called infractions.These days warnings carry no points and are just an on the record communication that a problem is being pointed out to a member and needs to stop or improve. Changes to our site disciplinary system is the most up to date explanation of the way things work, especiallly the first post.
We have been reviewing our site policy regarding our infractions, warnings, and banning policy and have reached a point of changing it. Going forward, we have the following Infractions selectable by staff in dealing with problem members:

Code:
[B]Title[/B]  		[B]Points[/B]  	[B]Expires[/B]
Abuse 				1 	12 Month(s)
Other BLUA Violation 		1 	12 Month(s)	
Drug Solicitation 		1 	12 Month(s)
Violation of forum guidelines	1	12 Month(s)
Repeated violation		1	12 Month(s)

Depending upon the number of active infraction points (all points expire in 12 months), the system will automatically suspend an offending member's account for X days upon earning Y warning points. This 'Temp Ban' length of time is outlined here:

Code:
2 pts = 1 day
4 pts = 3 days
5 pts = 7 days
6 pts = 2 weeks
7 pts = 1 month
8 pts = 3 months
9 pts = 6 months
10 pts = 12 months

Still under manual control will be:
  • Sr. Staff can add additional time to the suspension if the member continues violations during the Temp Ban.
  • Sr. Staff can ban accounts permanently in obvious situations (ie, SPAM).
  • Admin can reverse a warning, infraction, or ban if there was an error in issuing it.

This will put the ultimate power to 'Temp Ban' someone in the hands of the mods who issue infractions and warnings, but each one they issue is recorded and subject to review by sr. staff to ensure there is not an abuse of the system by anyone on staff (for example, a mod on drug binge hammering out warnings to a member just to ban them for fun). Such actions will be reviewed by sr. staff and appropriate action taken (up to and including reversal of infraction points and removal from staff).

We are still working out a way of making it known whom is on Temp Ban (at least, those of an extended period) so that members understand why someone has had their site access revoked and for how long. This is still somewhat under discussion, and we'll update this thread shortly. Up to now there has been a 'Ban on Sight' list of people who fucked up bad enough to NOT ever be allowed back, but we are reforming those bans to be more in alignment with our system outlined above. As of this week, the following persons are on extended ban status:



You'll note some of those have multiple usernames listed, part of our system will be that if another account is registered during that Temp Ban period, the ban on the original account is extended and that recent alias is banned. It is on the offender to abide by the ban or have it extended. Members are asked to help us identify those persons when you see them back on site during a temporary ban of their account (you can PM a staff member or use the REPORT function on their posts).

+++++++++++

The changes above have not gone into place as yet, though we'll be editing the site settings this week. Also, I will outline below some of the history of what got us to this point.

+++++++++++++++

It's been noted that when someone is under a suspension, registering additional accounts will lead to more infractions which creates longer bans....it creates the quandry of how to communicate questions or concerns to the site whilst in that suspended state. For those wondering, here are some sample questions, and their related answers:


  1. I have had numerous names over the years and I was wondering if you are going to reinstate one or am I going to make up a new one?
    Our policy is that if you've screwed up enough to be on this kind of list, those account names aren't coming back. You, the 'person' are able to return, but your old 'screenname' is dead. Please register a new account when you are eligible.


  2. 2. I've read that I come back Sept. 2010. Does that mean I come back on the 1st of Sept. or on a specific day?
    It wasn't specified, but technically September 1st is in September, so that would be the first date of eligibility for return.


  3. 3. So when Im back, does my warning level go back down to zero and how many more warnings until banishment again?
    We've debated this, and it isn't quite set in stone as yet. Some of us prefer that the old points be carried over, so future generations of staff are aware of the problems caused....please note, however, that given the time frames, most of those points would have expired and will not be counting towards any future bans, and nobody but staff can see the point count. Others prefer to let the new account come in with zero points, though we keep note of who this new person used to be and how many points they'd earned under that old account. Regardless of how we keep notes on people, the net effect to any banned person is the same - you are coming in clean again.


  4. 4. If I think of any more questions, is there an email address I can send them to? I dont think it is a good idea to post in this forum any more than this one time.
    You are correct, posting here or registering simply to ask these questions probably won't be smiled upon too much. However, there is a 'Contact Us' link at the bottom right corner of every page which will submit your questions to the admin group. If it is something specific to your case, we may respond via email (use one you can receive a response with). If the questions are beneficial for all to learn, such as the ones raised here, we'll post the response publicly for you and anyone else to learn. If it is simply more trolling, we won't respond at all - we reserve that right.


Edit 8 JUN 2010 - added the points/days_suspension listing for member education.
Edit 22 JUN 2010 - added four questions and answers
Edit 24 AUG 2010 - knocked "Repeat Offense" from 2 pts to 1 pt, eliminated 3 pt "Major Violation" since it was never clearly defined. All infractions are now 1 pt.
 
See, no talk of infractions, only warnings. I dont think we should be given something like that unless it is in writing. If it is not in writing, then it is not a contract.

An internet forum isn't a contract. I don't know why you would even compare it to one. :?

Read the BLUA...


Use of this site, and any other site owned and operated by Bluelight (www.bluelight.ru) implies your understanding and consent of the following clauses:
1) Bluelight reserves the right, in case of violation of any of these policies, to take action to restrict or terminate your access to Bluelight.
2) Bluelight will remove any content from its sites which Bluelight, in its sole discretion, determines to be harmful, offensive, or otherwise in violation of these policies.
 
I updated this recently in the GG that looks like a wiki page. I couldnt remember how to do it on the one in the FAQ. So it is written somewhere, just not in the one you were looking at. I'll figure out how to update that one once my life settles back down a little and I have some more time ;) In the mean time, heres the updated one.
GG said:
Warnings Warnings are issued by staff when a member violates the site user agreement (BLUA) or forum specific guidelines (you should be aware of any forum guidelines before posting). Warnings are worth 0 pts. They are typically only given after a first offense to let the member know that what they have done is against the rules.

Infractions Infractions are issued by staff when a more severe offense has taken place, or when warnings have not gotten the message across. Infractions are worth 1 pt and generally expire in 1 year. Infractions can be made to be worth more points, but this is rare and can only be done by sr staff, and only after some discussion has taken place on the matter. Multiple infractions will lead to temporary bans. The length of the ban depends on the number of infractions, and is as follows:

2 pts = 1 day; 4 pts = 3 days; 5 pts = 7 days; 6 pts = 2 weeks; 7 pts = 1 month; 8 pts = 3 months; 9 pts = 6 months; 10 pts = 12 months

As you can see, we give you plenty of opportunity to change your behavior before you start getting in to really long bans.

Temporary Bans These are now done automatically by the system depending on the number of infractions. Creating an alt (a new username) during a temp ban will result in the alt account being banned permanently, and an infraction being added to the original account.

Permanent bans These are intended to kill the account as the behaviour is not acceptable on our site. Senior staff may issue one regardless of the number of warnings, dependent upon the situation (for example, spammers are given no freedom - once identified, they are banned outright).

The idea of permanent bans raises a question - can the member just register a new account and start over? It is possible to start life anew under a different username, but in most cases these persons will not have changed the behaviour that got them banned in the first place and are easily spotted. This new account may survive if they remain unnoticed and non-disruptive, but if we identify them as a previously banned person we will treat them as carrying their past with them. There is no 'reset' of warnings with a fresh count.
http://wiki.bluelight.ru/index.php/Greenlighters_guide#Warnings_and_Bans
 
further to captain heroin's post, posting on bluelight is a priviledge not a right.

we try to make the discipline system as transparent as practically possible and the priviledge can be removed when and if the site administration feel it's appropriate.

alasdair
 
An internet forum isn't a contract. I don't know why you would even compare it to one. :?

Read the BLUA...


Use of this site, and any other site owned and operated by Bluelight (www.bluelight.ru) implies your understanding and consent of the following clauses:
1) Bluelight reserves the right, in case of violation of any of these policies, to take action to restrict or terminate your access to Bluelight.
2) Bluelight will remove any content from its sites which Bluelight, in its sole discretion, determines to be harmful, offensive, or otherwise in violation of these policies.

Actually when I agreed to the user agreement, it is contract. When I agreed to abide by your rules when I signed up, I agreed to what is called an "implied contract". An implied contact consists of certain obligations that arise from a mutual agreement and intention of promise. You make the rules and I agree to go by them. Unless you write a clause inside the contract stating that you have the right to change the rules whenever you want, which you did not. Changing the original contract makes it void. You must make us resign the contract or give us the bluelighter a prewarned notice of change.

If you were to ban me for something that I did not originally agree to in the contract that I originally signed, I could take you to court for breach of contract.

So, it is basically my legal advice that Bluelight puts a clause in their User Agreement saying that they have the right to do what they no matter what or someone one day will sue you. Not me, because Im poor, but it could happen.
 
Thats actually a very good point. I sort of doubt we'd ever get sued for it, if someone tried they'd probably be laughed out of the court (also because we arent really in a single jurisdiction) but it is certainly an easy enough thing to fix to avoid the issue all together.
 
Actually when I agreed to the user agreement, it is contract. When I agreed to abide by your rules when I signed up, I agreed to what is called an "implied contract". An implied contact consists of certain obligations that arise from a mutual agreement and intention of promise. You make the rules and I agree to go by them. Unless you write a clause inside the contract stating that you have the right to change the rules whenever you want, which you did not. Changing the original contract makes it void. You must make us resign the contract or give us the bluelighter a prewarned notice of change.

If you were to ban me for something that I did not originally agree to in the contract that I originally signed, I could take you to court for breach of contract.

So, it is basically my legal advice that Bluelight puts a clause in their User Agreement saying that they have the right to do what they no matter what or someone one day will sue you. Not me, because Im poor, but it could happen.

there is this part to the BLUA:

[You may not] post or upload to a forum any content that violates specific rules of that forum;

Those forum guidelines are subject to change at any time we find them inadequate. That would be the loophole you describe, and how we have closed it. That is, of course, assuming you violate forum guidelines. There are other things that can get you banned, but those are in fact spelled out in the BLUA (solicitation, acting on behalf of the site, trying to access the server data, etc).

I'm sure you wouldn't sue us...you're one of us (mindless chanting in background of "One of us! One of us!"). But before someone takes us to court for such a suit, they'll be considering if they want to legally go into court with the fact that they've been on a :gasp: druggie site, and if the reasons we've banned someone are really material to have presented in court where they would have to acknowledge having created that material (kiddie porn spam? Hate speech? You know, the usual stuff that we ban people for?). Anyone who's been here long enough knows we don't ban on a whim - it takes a lot of offenses to get banned. That said, we'll have plenty of material to take to court should someone really feel that being 'banned from a (drug-related) website' is worth going to court over. =D

Oh, and in which country would this suit be taking place? ;)
 
Ahh. I didnt think about the country. I just assumed the United States, but since bluelight is based out of Russia, it would harder.

I was just bringing this up because you know how lawsuit crazy people are today. Someone with enough money and enough free time on their hands could try something stupid one day.
 
tally, this is essentially a private "business". we are entirely subject to the whims of those with the banhammers.

further to captain heroin's post, posting on bluelight is a priviledge not a right.

we try to make the discipline system as transparent as practically possible and the priviledge can be removed when and if the site administration feel it's appropriate.

alasdair

bwahahahaahaaha, yeah right. so rich coming from you, ali.

also, i avoid sl&r cuz i still have no idea what supposed rules i was breaking when my posted were ua'd. the saddest part is the complete lack of care on the part of some of the admin. seriously lol @ "transparent".

oh well. tally, remember it's just a forum. it don't mean shit at the end of the day.
 
I think Tally's questions have been pretty well answered for now so I'm going to close. If anyone needs this reopened PM fizzle or myself.
 
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