Wanting to start my first cycle...

Newbies. Voxide doesn't like it when people come in here with low stats, asking silly questions and want to get on gear. I agree 80% of the time with him, but some people aren't going to take, "You're not ready for steroids." as an answer.

But honestly I just reread through the thread and OP did not seem too be to bad, but some of the answers were.

Reason I asked is b/c when I first read the post I thought he was boitching about the members giving advice. I started making a post criticizing him for that. Then decided I souldn't make posts that will turn into biotch fests or feeding the trolls so wound up reporting his post thinking he was just starting shit and a 'newbie' unhappy not getting feedback about using gear when he was not ready...
 
It's everything. The thread starters, the advice that some people have the audacity to give, the topics, the questions.

I mean, Jesus Christ, there's people on this forum that actually believe white rice is equal in nutritional value to brown rice. There's people here who feel the need to run 2 grams of test for their second "cycle". It's only got worse since I left. I know the knowledgeable people in here mean well, but it's like 3 functional people trying to lead around 5 busloads of people who are blind. It's crazy. The people asking stupid questions like "What is a good age to run a first cycle" are the same people who've abused opiates, alcohol, and a slew of other drugs. The damage has already been done to your body. If you feel you're ready and are going to do it anyway, then what the fuck does it matter to you what an experienced bodybuilder has to say? I wish these people would just do their cycle and save the people who actually want to learn some trouble.

brb, eating "clean" for 4 years and being 16% BF
brb, taking 1g of Sus for a 1st run, and then doing 3 grams of total androgens 2 weeks later
brb, working out while high on heroin in the midst of an Anadrol cycle
brb, fucking up my HPTA for life by doing a cycle at 18 and then never posting in here again to avoid saying I made a mistake and being laughed at
brb, asking how many milligrams of Test are in a 10ml 250mg/ml bottle
brb, taking a sedative club drug and honestly thinking it does anything whatsoever other than make you more retarded and braindead with every capful.

Honestly, the things I've read in here are astounding. This subforum needs to be nuked. I'm dead serious. There's impressionable kids that post on bluelight. They'll read some bullshit from a retard who suggests 100mg of dbol per day, and they will destroy their body for life.

Bro, I need you around to give advice and spread the good word.
 
But honestly I just reread through the thread and OP did not seem too be to bad, but some of the answers were.

This pisses me off the most. Steroids aren't like dropping E at a rave every so often and taking some 5-HTP to make everything better. Also, people think they are ready and know everything already.

And to everyone reading this that is running their first cycle or thinking about running a cycle you need to LISTEN. You need to take advice from the more experienced because we have been there and done that in regards to mistakes; Be it that we made them ourselves or watched them unfold in front of us at the gym.
 
Oh well cycles all end up becoming personalized as the body builder goes up in rank
 
@guido my bf is currently 13%. i take my training and nutrition seriously. i came on here for advice/broscience from more experienced aas users, most of what i got was a bunch of people debating about white rice and the lack of its nutrient break down and others bashing the forum. ok even ill admit the levels of test that i was pondering on using are high for a beginner, like i said i only want to do one cycle and get the most out of it. in my post i tried to give as much information as i could because i was see people asking questions with the lack of stats to better answer these questions. in my post i also forgot to state that i was only planning on running the prop for 4 weeks instead of a oral. i want to learn hence the reason I'm asking questions but please refrain from giving me information about training and nutrition that part i understand already. in the 3 years that i trained naturally i was 105 kg and was always around the 10% bf mark give or take. i would clean bulk for ten months then diet for 8 weeks the most i ever got to at the end of the bulk was 14 percent bf. i know plenty of friends and others that couldn't even come to the physique i had whilst on the gear so please spare me the chit chat. at my current state at 13% bf i pretty much look the way i use to just a little bit more fat when i say little i mean little it would be hard for the average person to tell the difference my abs were just more defined bedford and a tad more vascular. i want advice about the gear not the above so would running 750 of test a week really be too much?????? lets say for the first four weeks instead of running 750 of test e i run 500mg 1ml mon 1 ml fri and eod of prop then after four weeks stop the prop and go to 750mg test e 1.5 ml mon 1.5ml fri would this seriously be too much. a lot of people say for a starter cycle to run 500mg of test a week and 50mg d bol a day from weeks 1 to 5 I'm just replacing the d bol with the prop because i really don't like how everyone i see on d bols gets a lot of water sure your gonna get some from test as well but d bol is worse imo. then after stopping my prop at week four i want to up it to 750 mg whats everyones thoughts on this. thx again for all the advice and broscience bros!!!!
 
Brown sprouted or germinated rice is superior to white rice.

Not to be rude but if you ate clean for 3 years you wouldn't be 16% bodyfat.

especially with all the cardio, he says he does a week...
 
Really is no difference between over eating and eating dirty, you end up at the same destination. So what is your body fat? You said you measured it. Lettuce be cereal for a moment, brah.

Thats also what o meant by learning how to eat clean... if food is not measures, how do you know if you over eat?well i guess you know because you gain fat....
 
@guido my bf is currently 13%. i take my training and nutrition seriously. i came on here for advice/broscience from more experienced aas users, most of what i got was a bunch of people debating about white rice and the lack of its nutrient break down and others bashing the forum. ok even ill admit the levels of test that i was pondering on using are high for a beginner, like i said i only want to do one cycle and get the most out of it. in my post i tried to give as much information as i could because i was see people asking questions with the lack of stats to better answer these questions. in my post i also forgot to state that i was only planning on running the prop for 4 weeks instead of a oral. i want to learn hence the reason I'm asking questions but please refrain from giving me information about training and nutrition that part i understand already. in the 3 years that i trained naturally i was 105 kg and was always around the 10% bf mark give or take. i would clean bulk for ten months then diet for 8 weeks the most i ever got to at the end of the bulk was 14 percent bf. i know plenty of friends and others that couldn't even come to the physique i had whilst on the gear so please spare me the chit chat. at my current state at 13% bf i pretty much look the way i use to just a little bit more fat when i say little i mean little it would be hard for the average person to tell the difference my abs were just more defined bedford and a tad more vascular. i want advice about the gear not the above so would running 750 of test a week really be too much?????? lets say for the first four weeks instead of running 750 of test e i run 500mg 1ml mon 1 ml fri and eod of prop then after four weeks stop the prop and go to 750mg test e 1.5 ml mon 1.5ml fri would this seriously be too much. a lot of people say for a starter cycle to run 500mg of test a week and 50mg d bol a day from weeks 1 to 5 I'm just replacing the d bol with the prop because i really don't like how everyone i see on d bols gets a lot of water sure your gonna get some from test as well but d bol is worse imo. then after stopping my prop at week four i want to up it to 750 mg whats everyones thoughts on this. thx again for all the advice and broscience bros!!!!

O.K, bro , i will give you my opinion, just, on the gear you want to run, since you dont want to talk about any thing else...
the way you are doing it is fine... how long you plan to run the cycle? also IF you are worried about the bloat from the dbol, then you could have changed it with the oral turinabol.... but since you choosing to do test E and test P, why not just buy sustanon and run it the entire cycle? 750mg of test is fine especially if running UG gear .... i find that 500mg of test e human grade gives me better results then running 1000mg of UG gear (get the point)
 
@guido my bf is currently 13%.

Cool. Get it down to 10% and then come back and we will tell you how to run a proper cycle. If you took you diet and nutrition seriously you would know brown sprouted rice is nutritional superior to white rice.

Also broscience is not tolerated here. Anything stated has to be backed up by research or facts.

And start being honest, you said 16% body fat your first post, then 14%, and now 13%? Sheesh.
 
@titus to me broscience means advice from real world experience. as in asking people who have ran gear before advice about it because i haven't any experience myself. asking others what their experiences have been with certain aspects.

@guido i got my bf tested about two weeks prior to my original post it was 16% and when i replied to the comments i knew it was down since then because at 16% my abs were not really visible and i was guessing that i was about14 percent when i said said i was 14% percent because my abs had become visible at that time. i got tested again bout four days ago and i was down to 13% like i said before the way I'm eating clean other than the white rice in the morning but it isn't more than 50 grams at tops. have a look at my sample daily eating in my original post. also i know the difference between brown and white rice dude i just said white rice is what works for me in the morning time personal preference. i just get a better anergy kick from the white rice thats why i eat it in the morning thats all. also i will be 10 % in probably two to three weeks tops so advice is needed asap.

@toned i understand what your saying in regards to underground lab gear and human grade. when i do decide to hit my cycle only human grade gear will be administered. in regards to not measure i know I'm leaning up because I weigh myself on a weekly basis and have consistently dropped from half to three quarters of a kg every week. i do cardio as well like i stated in one of my later posts.

i think everyone needs to read all my posts over properly to understand what I want out of this thx again guys for all input...
 
Steroids are not miracle drugs:

Steroids have the ability to speed up protein synthesis, and allow you to get great muscle gains, however they are not, by any stretch of the imagination, miracle drugs. You still have to have a very good diet and training program to see results, as well as have a very good, well-planned cycle.

It's very important that you have a good grasp of proper diet, proper training, and have been training without steroids for at least a year. You shouldn't ever think of steroids as a quick way to get into shape, but more as a tool among many that you can use to help you achieve your physique goals.

Steroids are not for children or teenagers:

Steroids have very peculiar and most of the time dangerous effects on adolescents. Through aromatizing into estrogen, they cause the epiphysis (growth plates) to calcify (close) which will leave a person unable to grow any taller.

They also interrupt the hormonal balance of the body, and during puberty these hormones are very critical to proper body development, so please, if you are a teenager, especially one who is not yet done growing, please don't use steroids. Your natural testosterone production should be enough as to where you don't need it anyways to make good gains.

You have to inject:

Though not all steroids are injectable, in order to run a proper steroid cycle you need to prepare to inject. There are multiple reasons for this.

The number one reason is that oral steroids are extremely hepatoxic, they are not kind at all to the liver, since they have to alkylated in order to avoid the first pass through the liver so that they are effective. Using only orals is a great way to destroy your liver for not very much gains.

Another reason is that you must include injectable testosterone as the base of your cycle. If you were to use only dht derivative steroids they would shut down your HPTA (Hypothalamus-Pituitary-Testes Axis) extremely hard, and you would not produce any natural test so you would need to use synthetic injectable test either in the form of propionate, cypionate, enthanate, or suspension in order to have testosterone in your system.

Oral-only cycles are just too dangerous in comparison to the gains that they elicit, not to mention the gains are hard to maintain in some cases or happen to be water. That is why oral-only cycles are discouraged.

You need to have a good diet:

Yes, food should be your main anabolic; not steroids, not supplements, just food. You need a great deal of calories from carbohydrates, fats, and protien. Diet can be adjusted based on you goals; Be it bulking, cutting or a recomposition.

You need to have a good training program:

It's probably obvious that you need to train in order for your muscles to grow, but you never know, it's always good to reiterate it. Remember that a training program that works for someone else might not work for you. Find or create a program that will help you reach your goal and that is suited specifically for you.

You must be as lean as possible:

Being at 10% body fat or less is needed for running a cycle. Not only does it prevent blood pressure but it ensures you body will respond better to steroids.
You will see greater definition, greater mass gain, and overall greater changes to the physique at a low body fat including further reduction of body fat.

You need to use ancillaries and PCT compounds:

Ancillaries are compounds that are used to prevent the side effects of steroid use mainly by preventing aromatase or preventing estrogen from binding to it's receptors.

You should always use an anti-aromatase such as Letrazole (Femara), or Anastrazole (Arimidex), or Exemestane (Aromasin) to prevent test from aromatizing into estrogen, even when using a SERM because estrogen has non-receptor mediated effects that can be undesirable.

You should always have Tamoxifen (Nolvadex) on hand in case you start to encounter itchy nipples which is a sign of the early stages of gynecomastia ("bitch tits").

PCT is the abbreviation for "Post Cycle Therapy", which must be done in order to properly recover and keep the gains that you made while on cycle. Usually Clomiphene (Clomid) is used as the staple of PCT, but it can also include Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (Pregnyl) which mimics leutenizing hormone in the male body and causes the testes to produce testosterone again. It's important to always use clomiphene or tamoxifen also though because HCG can be somewhat suppressive of natural testosterone itself.

Steroids will not work if you are abusing drugs.

Being addicted to opiates or other drugs and trying to run a cycle will result in miniscule gains. It's a waste of time and money. You will spend more time being high than lifting, and you will either end up not eating enough or eating to much junk food. If you are taking pain meds or anxiety meds as directed you are able to run a cycle and if you are taking methadone or suboxone for maintenance you are able to run a cycle. it's only when you abuse drugs does it become an issue and a problem.

You need to have a well planned cycle:

15 week starter cycle

Weeks 1-15: 500mg Testosterone Enathate per week

Weeks 1-5: 50mg of Dianabol a day

Weeks 1-15: 0.25mg - 0.50mg of Anastrozole a day

Weeks 16-21: 20mg of Tamoxifen every day

Weeks 16-21: 50mg of Clomiphene every day


This cycle is perfect for some jumping into AAS for the first time after doing their research, getting their diet and lifting routine hammered out, and being over 21. It gets you familiar with injectables and orals as well. All the compounds are typically free of extreme side effect and are at reasonable dosages which will provide gains while minimizing complications. This cycle is pretty versatile, the orals can be substituted with others or taken out all together. Other injectables can be added as well but remember that every cycle should have Testosterone in it, even if it's a low dose.

As one becomes more experienced the dosages, types of compounds, numbers of compounds, and cycle length can be adjusted.

It is imperative that Testosterone be included in any cycle and orals should not be run more than 4 -5 weeks with a maximum of two oral types being run at once. However, there are some oral steroids that absolutely have to be run alone and can't be used longer than 2 weeks. Always do your research and always ask questions.
 
There is your first cycle. There is your advice. If you are going to do it, do it right but don't be surprised if your results are average at best considering your diet. You need anywhere from 3,000+ clean calories a day. Additionally, you respond better to steroids and get better results the leaner you are when you get on.
 
@guido thx for the post have read it before. i don't think my bf being 13% is all that high and I'm gonna eat like this for another two weeks and hit the 10% mark first. i eat clean

this is what i ate today
meal one: was in a rush for work so i had 50 grams wpi two whole grain rice cakes
snack: handful almonds low fat low carb natural yoghurt and a apple
meal two: chicken breast broccoli and sweet potato
pre training: 50 grams wpi one hour before training
post workout: 20 gram dextrose five min later 5 gram creatine blend followed ten min later 50grams wpi
meal three: one and half hours after training piece of salmon and handful of veggies my veggies are usually green beans broccoli collie flower asparagus
meal four: chicken breast
meal five: ten egg whites one yellow omelette also containing spring onions mushrooms and capsicum

this is what i ate today I'm def eating over 3000 calories and dropping bf so no one tell me i don't eat clean and my training is not right i know what I'm doing when it comes to nutrition and work ethics in the gym. yes i eat a little bit of white rice for breakfast usually but hey like i said its what gives me more energy i have tried other things like oats and brown rice but this is what works for me energy wise. i know the difference between the two and which yields a higher nutritional value. my other daily intake sample is in my original post this is how i been eating day in day out for four months i have roughly 200 carbs a day and 310 grams of protein a day all my food is cooked using extra virgin olive oil. on sundays i have a cheat meal and up my carbs to about 350 and it works best for me it gives me a nice glycogen load up for the week of hard training i do.

@guido i really don't want to use any orals, that sample cycle you showed could i replace the d bols with the prop from weeks 1 to 4 every second day 100mg
I'm down to 105.6 kg at 13 percent bf which means i would be roughly 102. something kg once at 10 percent bf. i train really hard mind to muscle is always present during my workouts i lift heavy try and keep form on point to the best of my ability. I'm also gonna be upping my calories whilst on the cycle I'm at this time eating more than 3000 calories and dropping fat which means my energy in vs energy out is not at maintenance I'm currently at a calorie minus to be dropping bf. my maintenance i believe would be roughly at about 4000 calories a day. these are just rough numbers but once on the cycle I'm planning on eating exactly the way i do now but adding in two extra meals of just protein no carbs so the carbs will stay the same as they are now and a extra shake and going for about 5000 calories. i don't do anything half assed i go hard in everything ai do i make sure I'm always getting in my 8 hours sleep. plus i train 6 days usually but i listen to my body and take a day off occasionally when my body wants it. to me its not all about the training i believe ties a combination of training/nutrtion/rest each one have a equal percentage and role to get big all done to the nest of my ability but all equal in importance.. also another question i have is how much can i expect to put on from this cycle roughly and with solid nutrition/rest/training/pct how much can i expect to maintain? this is my first cycle never ever ventured beyond supplements never had pro hormones believe me when i say i have beyond average genetics i recover very quick Ill be 102kg at 10 so its not small to say the lest. can i hit 115kg or is that too much to ask for that where i wanna be 115kg @ 10% bf
 
Well either go with Test Prop as your entire cycle or Test Prop on top of Test E.
 
I think I've said this before in this thread but some ppl find test prop injecitons very painful and the pain can last days. Meaning if you inject in your ass you may find walking and sitting and just being alive very painful in your ass and make lower body lifting exercizes next to impossilbe for a few days. Same for delts. And since you need to inject test prop every day or every other day at least (guido, pleae correct me if I am wrong) this can make effectively working out next to impossible on test prop. That is why it's mostly used by experienced bodybuidlers. I know a dued who weights 190lbs lean and buff as a mo fo now, who used to be close to 300lbs on steroids, who thought he was poisoned after injecting test prop as the fisrt drug he tried. He freaked and was makig calls to get help b/c of the pain and how he could barely walk. And this is a tough as shit dude. He ran a cell block at a max security prison, the gang unit. And when a prisoner had a prob with him he would invite them in a room wiht no cams, take off all his gear and say "you got a problem wiht me? We cna handle it right now if you want to go." I thik 1-2 ppl tried and after they all realized he was an expert fighter no one tried again. all the baddest inmates wound up requesting transfers to his block though b/c of the respect he got handling shit htis way.

So consider yourelf warned about the degree of lasting pain (or potential for, doesnt happen to everyone) test p injections can cause.
 
@titus thx for the heads up many friends have said the same thing to a degree some worse than others...
 
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