Walter Cronkite: Telling the Truth About the War on Drugs

davesoviet said:
So maybe Jan Warren thinks her sentence is unfair. But maybe it was unfair she was taking money, that in part, came from pathetic drug addicts who had lost all self-control. Maybe it was unfair that she was enabling people to destroy themselves.
Click to expand...

SHE DIDNT SELL SHIT.

All she did was drive it somewhere.

read carefully before you assume what someone did.

Police don't selectively enforce drug laws based on race, sorry.
Click to expand...

BWAHAHAHAHHAHAHAH!!!

OHHHH SHIT!!!!
AHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHA!!!!!!

Thats the best one ive heard all day!!

*wipes tears of laughter from eyes*

rofl.gif
rofl.gif
rofl.gif
 
5-HT2 reincarnated said:
Good article, despite the misrepresentations that davesoviet (SovietContin?) pointed out.
Click to expand...

Yes, I'm the BLer formerly known as SovietContin.

And don't get me wrong, I thought the article was decent, and it was definitely nice to hear the other side.

But I cannot stress enough how frustrated I am with all the b.s. coming from both sides of the drug issue.
 
Care to provide me credible evidence that she knew that was what the call was about? Or address the fact that she was given DOUBLE the sentence of the dealer?
Click to expand...

If you're like me, you will question media, especially when the "facts" seem too outrageous or defy common sense.

I found several accounts of the Nicole Richardson story from various sources on the internet. Walter Cronkite abbreviated the story and left out a few things to make his point.

As for her sentence being double that of her boyfriends... what is there to say? It's wrong.

There *are* morally responsible drug dealers.
Click to expand...

I know.

I know several, among them my former self. When I used to sell, I NEVER sold to addicts, and I never sold to people that I felt were doing themselves a disservice by doing drugs.
Click to expand...

I was absolutely the same way when I used to sell drugs. I like money, but I never liked it enough to contribute to someone messing up their lives.

But in the specific case of this lady in Cronkite's article... she was transporting 8 ounces of cocaine. No, I do not know for an absolute fact that at least a portion of that was going to make it to shady dealers who sold to anyone regardless of the circumstances. But my better judgement tells me that's what was going to happen.

Period. And besides, your point about dealers is worthless, because you're only helping Cronkite's case - if the drug war were gone, there would be no shady dealers left.
Click to expand...

That's not neccessarily true.

Say cocaine was legal to purchase in stores. You know damned well that there would be clerks selling it to customers who were obviously on 3-day-long benders just like they sell alcohol to people like that now at 24-hour marts.

Although, that is why I would personally like to see drugs legalized. Even though there wouldn't undoubtedly be people that did not follow all the regulations, drugs could be better regulated and stores that carried cocaine would likely enforce the regulations so as not to lose their licenses and risk incuring a large penalty.

Then again, think of all the pharmacies that don't carry OxyContin due to the threat of being robbed. There probably wouldn't be a lot of outlets to get things like cocaine or heroin.

(Quote:
Originally Posted by davesoviet)
So maybe Jan Warren thinks her sentence is unfair. But maybe it was unfair she was taking money, that in part, came from pathetic drug addicts who had lost all self-control. Maybe it was unfair that she was enabling people to destroy themselves.

Not to mention that she was about to bring a life into the world AND had a young daughter she was supposed to be caring for. She was knowingly commiting a felony. How unfair is that? (unquote davesoviet)

Not any more unfair than the fact that she somehow couldn't find other ways to provide for herself and her daughter....
Click to expand...

Unfair that she couldn't find ways to provide for herself and her daughter? She lives in the United States, not an impoverished 3rd world nation.

There would have been plenty of opportunities for her to at least get by without having to sell drugs. No, she wouldn't have been living the high life - but the world doesn't owe it to you to live that way - you have to do that for yourself. She was irresponsible. Which was already obvious being that she was divorced twice and pregnant with a second child by a boyfriend that had no intention of marrying her or being a father by the time she was arrested. She was trying to earn $2000 to move back to California and get a job. And instead of doing it the responsible way, she decided to sell drugs.

I'm not saying I agree with a 15 years to life sentence in prison by any means. Personally, I believe there should be reform facilities that teach people like her life skills followed by half-way houses that aren't corrupt to ease them back in the real world.

But the point is, it wasn't life being unfair that got her into her situation. Unfair would have been me, as a tax payer, supporting her through social programs while she continued to be irresponsible, squander opportunities and keep making needless mistakes and bad decisions. She was 37 when she was arrested. Why should society be holding her hand at that point?

...you are ABSOLUTELY wrong here. I know minorities and whites that have been caught with similar amounts of drugs. The whites all got probation with the exception of one instance which was a multiple offense, and the minorities got fines and jail time.
Click to expand...

First of all, the sentences are determined by judges, not the law. So again, the laws are not selectively enforced.

Second of all, there is more to sentencing than simply the crime.

Appearance and presentation says a lot about the penalties a person will face in court. I've been to court in Baltimore. There were a lot of black people wearing white tees and flashy sports shirts, baggy designer pants with Afros and corn rows. When the spoke, they spoke in "ebonics". Obviously, I had an easier time being that I came dressed in a suit, I had gotten my hair cut, I put on glasses, I spoke like I had an education, I had a real lawyer instead of a public defendent. There were a couple grungy/hippy type white kids, as well.

The judge was much more lenient on myself and the black folks who came off being respectable, as opposed to the ghetto folks and the dirty white kids.

Not to mention that I was being charged with a DUI that I wasn't guilty of. AND the cops presented paper work claiming I confessed to being high on heroin and OxyContin (when I had actually only confessed to taking Sudafed and Lamictal that morning and admitted to using heroin and OxyContin in the past when pressed). Now, if I was black, I'm sure everyone would have been yelling that the cops were racist and just trying to frame another black man.

Now, I'm not going to deny that there aren't racist cops and judges out there. I just don't believe that racial disparities are anywhere near as bad as they're made out to be. And again, the law is the law... if you're caught with drugs you're going to be arrested regardless of who you are or what race you are - which means the laws themselves aren't racist.
 
once when i was really young and still a new pot smoker i wrote some weird shit about how walter cronkite said "i can move mountain." coincidince? no such thing.

that is all.
 
davesoviet said:
But in the specific case of this lady in Cronkite's article... she was transporting 8 ounces of cocaine. No, I do not know for an absolute fact that at least a portion of that was going to make it to shady dealers who sold to anyone regardless of the circumstances. But my better judgement tells me that's what was going to happen.
Click to expand...
So you're saying that she might saved someone from becoming an addict if she hadn't done it? Or would the addict just buy his drugs another place...?

Then again, think of all the pharmacies that don't carry OxyContin due to the threat of being robbed. There probably wouldn't be a lot of outlets to get things like cocaine or heroin.
Click to expand...
Heroin and cocaine wouldn't be anyway near as expensive as it is now if it were legalized. Though, I would argue that not just any convenience store should have the right to sell cocaine or heroin.

She was irresponsible. Which was already obvious being that she was divorced twice and pregnant with a second child by a boyfriend that had no intention of marrying her or being a father by the time she was arrested.
Click to expand...
So being divorced makes you irresponsible? As well as having a boyfriend leave you makes you irresponsible?

She was trying to earn $2000 to move back to California and get a job. And instead of doing it the responsible way, she decided to sell drugs.
Click to expand...
I agree. But only because she risked being arrested was it irresponsible IMO.

But the point is, it wasn't life being unfair that got her into her situation.
Click to expand...
I'm glad you know her life story so you can tell us this... but how do you really know how fair life has been to her?

Appearance and presentation says a lot about the penalties a person will face in court.
Click to expand...
And this seems fair to you?
 
davesoviet said:
I
First of all, the sentences are determined by judges, not the law. So again, the laws are not selectively enforced.
Click to expand...

If I may say you have no idea what your talking about!

Can you say Mandatory Minimums?????
Mandatory minimum precludes judges from sentencing at a lower guideline range minimum or from granting a downward departure that might otherwise be available.

more nfo:
http://tinyurl.com/jbvpq


Racialprofiling:


Statistics provided by the federal government show that only 12 percent of the nation’s drug abusers are black, roughly the same percentage as exists in the general population. The majority are white-
http://www.cutv.com/Robbery.htm

The Orlando Sentinel found Sheriff Bob Vogel's squad arrested
only one of every four people they took money from, and more than
90 percent of those who lost money but were not charged with a
crime were black or Hispanic.
http://tinyurl.com/mxm3h

MORE NFO:
http://www.racialprofilinganalysis.neu.edu/legislation/litigation.php?state=11
 
themindlessone said:
Where the hell did he get 9 GRAMS of LSD?!?!?!
Click to expand...

lol exactly what I was thinking...

But in regards to the original post, the article is well written, and I agree completely. I hope this reaches enough people that it makes an impact, for instance maybe other journalists following Cronkite's footsteps, and telling the facts.
 
lacey k said:
SHE DIDNT SELL SHIT.

All she did was drive it somewhere.

read carefully before you assume what someone did.
Click to expand...

She got paid to transport the cocaine. Where do you think the money came from? Why did she think these people where going to pay her to transport the cocaine?
 
i guess i was the only "responsible" dealer, that or i just wasnt very good at it. way back in highschool, if i thought someone was spending too much, doing too much, or just being a retard, i'd stop selling to them. but i actually kinda care about people a little bit, and i really wasnt aking very much money at all, enough to buy my lunch and that cool new video game.

not that it matters now, i stopped once i got out of school.
 
redeemer said:
So you're saying that she might saved someone from becoming an addict if she hadn't done it? Or would the addict just buy his drugs another place...?
Click to expand...

I'm saying she wouldn't have enabled bad things to happen herself had she not done it.

Heroin and cocaine wouldn't be anyway near as expensive as it is now if it were legalized.
Click to expand...

I know? But what does that have to do with pharmacies or stores that sold cocaine and heroin being robbed?

So being divorced makes you irresponsible? As well as having a boyfriend leave you makes you irresponsible?
Click to expand...

When she got arrested, she was 37 years old and had been divorced twice.

She obviously knows what a bad relationship is at this point. She already had a kid, she obviously knows how people become pregnant and how to avoid becoming pregnant.

But she engaged in the same exact behavior and ended up with an unwanted pregnancy to a guy who had no intention of sticking around. It's not like she didn't know better.

She didn't deserve all the bad things that had happened to her. Nobody does. But she isn't retarded. At some point she should have been able to see a pattern of behaviors in her life that made these types of things a regular occurance, and she should have been able to do something about it. At the very least, she should have sought help if she couldn't do it on her own.

And it's like I said... I don't think she deserved a prison sentence for it. When I read her story, I felt bad for her. I think it's stupid the system is designed to punish people instead of offer help to people that clearly need help.

davesoviet: Appearance and presentation says a lot about the penalties a person will face in court.

And this seems fair to you?
Click to expand...

Yes.

If I was a judge, why would I be lenient on someone who didn't look or act like they took the whole thing seriously? Why would I be lenient on someone who didn't look or act like they knew what they did was wrong or would be willing to change their behavior?

There are two points of punishment. The first is to pay back a wrong doing. The second is to deter someone from doing something wrong again.

Someone who is willing to conform and change their behavior obviously doesn't need to be punished as severely.
 
You would be lenient cuz they would plea insanity if they didnt understand their crime ;p
 
I heard that if the government legalized and sold marijuana in the state of California alone, that they would raise enough money to eliminate the national debt in 1 year.
 
Well, let's say that it costs six dollars for a pack of marijuana cigarettes, three dollars of which is federal tax. This is a pretty reasonable estimate given that a pack of cigarettes goes for around four dollars in a lot of places with state tax included, and wholesale price of cigarettes is less than two dollars.

Cigarette consumption is about 485 billion cigarettes per year, that's about 24,250,000,000 packs. We'll assume that one quarter of this is the rate at which marijuana cigarettes will be smoked - i'd say that's a reasonable estimate. That's 6,062,500,000 packs. At 3 dollars in tax, that's $18,187,500,000, or about 18 billion dollars in tax revenue from the entire country.

Seeing as our national debt is $8,272,145,821,601.15, no, the state of CA's pot use would not come even close to paying off our national debt if marijuana was taxed in any reasonable fashion. It would take 454 years of national marijuana cigarette taxes to pay it off.

That being said, it would still certainly help.
 
^^ Yup, but add all other illegal drugs, if legalized and heavily taxed and we'd be getting much much closer to that figure.

;)

To all the posters: some excellent points raised thruout this thread, rarely do we get a news item provoking such extensive discussion!
 
^And you also have to consider the fact that rehabilitation is much cheaper for the state than jailing, so the government would be saving additional money on that.

Overall, legalization and taxation is undeniably the best possible route of action.
 
Personally I think it underlines a great point - Whether you think drugs and/or their use is right or wrong, you can't deny that no matter how much money you spend, or how many people you lock up - You're never going to "win". Instead of wasting money, and wasting people's lives - Regulate it, tax it, use it for the better.

Do you know why Marijuana is a "gateway" drug? Because you have to go to a drug dealer to get it. That drug dealer is probably selling other things as well. It takes you into the whole "world" of drugs. Make it legal, take away the "Gateway". (Besides, I laugh when they show the percentage of people who smoke marijuana before they do other drugs trying to show that it's a gateway drug. How many people do you think have tried drinking before they tried marijuana? I'm guessing the vast majority. Doesn't that make Alcohol a gateway drug?)

Great article.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top