Vyvanse + Nootropics + Supplements

[beansforbeans]

Hi,

I'm looking for any valuable input about a couple of nootropics I'm considering adding to my current stack.

Here's some background information...

I am prescribed 60mg of Vyvanse for ADD. Recently, I've been dealing with tolerance issues. Typically, I take a 3-day break every two weeks. This seems to help but not significantly. Sometimes I find that the Vyvanse slows me down at work even more than if I were not to take it. The only problem is when I don't take Vyvanse I find myself drinking loads of caffeine to stay alerted, focused, and motivated. In fact, my most recent break was spent watching Netflix and cooking. This is a huge problem for me because I find it almost impossible to focus on work things when I'm not on the Vyvanse, which is stressful and unpleasant. I would like to take at least a month long tolerance break, but I cannot afford to do this if I can't figure out a way to maintain my performance at work.

Specifically, I would like to bring your attention to two areas on which I'm trying to find further research:

1. Can certain nootropics counteract the fatigue, inability to focus, and lack of motivation one may experience during a Vyvanse tolerance break without also rendering a tolerance break pointless (such as with caffeine on tolerance breaks)?

1. Can some nootropics (listed below) reduce the effectiveness of Vyvanse when taken together? / Would it be pointless to stack these nootropics with Vyvanse? This question is aimed at my interest in stacking nootropics with Vyvanse to improve my memory and creativity (the latter I feel is reduced by the Vyvanse).

Here's what I take on a daily basis...

AM:

- Ultra Proteo-Zimes (Systemic Enzyme Blend: Pancreatin, Papain, Bromelain, Trypsin, Chymotrypsin, Rutin)
- Ultimate Flora Probiotic
- Vyvanse 60 mg
- B12 500 mcg (as Methylcobalamin)

PM:

- Fish Oil 1000mg
- Bacopa Monnieri

- Organic Bacopa standardized extract (whole plant) 250 mg (24% Bacopa saponins, 60 mg)
- Organic Bacopa powder (whole plant) 500 mg (2% Bacopa saponins, 10 mg)​

- Magnesium Oxide 250mg
- Food-based multivitamin.

On my Vyvanse holidays, I have been taking Rhodiola Rosea 120mg (6 mg rosavins) 3x/day. I have taken the Rhodiola with Vyvanse on a few occasions. The Rhodiola seems to provide a nice boost of energy during the Vyvanse comedown.

Nootropics:

- Noopept

Specifically, I am curious as to whether there is any existing research on the relationships between Noopept and Vyvanse. From the limited amount of user reviews and information I've found online, Noopept seems appealing as a nootropic I could take with Vyvanse to improve my overall memory and concentration, thus enabling me to reduce Vyvanse doses.

- Sunifiram

I can't find much research on this nootropic, but it does seem interesting based on the positive user reviews I've come across. It's appealing to me for its potential as an energy + motivation enhancer.

- Adrafinil (Olmifon; precursor to Modafinil)

Adrafinil may be a potential solution to the fatigue and lack of motivation I am experiencing on my tolerance breaks. I am also aware of the danger this nootropic may pose to the liver if taken over a long period of time; another reason why I am looking at it for strict use during tolerance breaks.

Hopefully I haven't forgotten any crucial details. Feel free to share your own experiences with certain nootropics and ADD medications, research you've come across, etc.

*I apologize in advance if I have either posted this in the wrong section or if this information already exists on another thread.

 

[Seppi]

Try supplementing 50 mg of zinc every day when you take Vyvanse. Zinc amplifies some of the pharmacodynamic effects of amphetamine in dopamine neurons in vitro and supplementing it with amphetamine has been shown to reduce the dose of amphetamine needed to effectively treat adhd in clinical trials involving ADHD children. If you want to read the research supporting this statement, see the refs in the sentence and note about zinc in the interactions section of this article.
FWIW, I personally find that taking zinc with an IR amphetamine formulation makes a noticeable difference in its effect relative to days that I don't take zinc, but I'm not sure how noticeable the difference is relative to amphetamine's baseline effects w/o zinc use when an XR formulation is used. Since zinc appears to interact with amphetamine primarily by amplifying DA efflux, the effect of supplemental zinc on amphetamine's treatment effect theoretically should be - and for me it is - most noticeable within the first hour or two after an immediate release formulation of amphetamine is taken.

If that doesn't really make a difference for you, try switching from lisdexamfetamine (Vyvanse) to an immediate release dextroamphetamine and/or amphetamine formulation (e.g., generic Adderall tablets) that are taken 3 times a day - then just take them as needed at work. The duration of action for extended release amphetamine formulations is roughly 12 hours, while the duration of action for IR amphetamine formulation is generally only about 3-4 hours (supposedly can be up to 7); however, IR formulations have the advantage of providing a slightly more pronounced, albeit shorter, treatment effect (relative to XR formulations) whenever it's needed.

If what you're primarily looking for is a compound to give you motivation to get things done (in other words, mildly increase your incentive salience for various tasks) and energy to perform tasks, you'd want a dopaminergic drug as opposed to a noradrenergic drug or generic "nootropic"; based upon all the substances you listed, amphetamine has the largest effect on DA neurotransmission. So, if neither of the two options that I suggested above actually work for you (i.e., supplement zinc and/or switch to an IR formulation), then you probably just need a slightly higher dose. It would probably be best if that dose increase were prescribed as a small IR dose (e.g., 10 mg) that you'd take later in the day along with an XR formulation early in the morning.

On an unrelated note, I'd suggest that you not take plant-based supplements (e.g., Bacopa) with other psychoactive drugs; most plants contain a large number of bioactive substances which can and often do produce several nontrivial pharmacodynamic and/or pharmacokinetic interactions with pharmaceuticals. Since the pharmacodynamics of most bioactive phytochemicals haven't been elucidated, these interactions usually aren't known (extensively researched plant supplements like S.t. Johns wort are the exceptions).