VISIONS, Visuals and the space between the lines

[thoughtsUnThought]

How do you all feel of the difference of these...?
there is a certain nomenclature wall possibly, but i myself have a varied definition of each.

Visions usually tend towards revelatory understanding which are received through a certain 'journeying' of the consciousness. where a Visual, is a mere distortion or a heightened observation of the wave nature of the world around us.

for me it's not totally dose-dependent either, which is what interests me. and also, a Vision for me, isn't always pure insight formed into a journey. sometimes something of a vision can be perplexing to my understanding upon recollection. And again, on higher doses (where 'Vision'ary experience are more common) i do not always have 'visions', sometimes the intensity of the dosage is represented in more mental effects or extremely intense 'visuals'.

lol, tricky word play here, semantics aside...what do you guys have to say?
experiences with the two, a line to draw between the two...roots of either, implications of either, mystical speculations, scientific disregards...lol, anything! throw words at me

 

[shady4091]

The difference between "Visions" and "Visuals"?

They're pretty different in my opinion. Visions don't always contain visuals and vice-versa. A "Vision", I believe is a sort of stimulation of senses and perception in your brain. You can have a vision without ever really seeing anything. Its something you feel, something you're so very sure of at the time but it sort of fades away with the trip. It's really hard to explain, and I'm sort of failing here...

A "Visual" is a lot more black and white. It's simply what you see and I find them to be a lot more dose dependent than visions. The more you do, the more you see. They differ depending on what sort of psychedelic you take. I always found mushroom visuals to be a lot more linear than say, LSD visuals. Mushroom visuals usually seem to consist of the same sort of "aztec" pattern overlayed on top of everything where as LSD seems more boundless and open. Lots of fractals and such.

That's really all I got lol.

 

[thoughtsUnThought]

How do you guys feel about the variation of drugs that tend towards Visual-istic experiences vs. Vision-ary experiences....??

Mescaline comes to mind for me as a vision inducing experience. While i also get intense 'visual' distortions on medium-high doses it seems the trance effect of mescaline is conducive to visioning even while the doses are low.

Salvia and Mushrooms are moreso Visionary for myself as well. Mushroom though tend to have visual distortion present as well.

It seems to myself that certain plants/chems seem to set the stage for the 'flight of consciousness' which is the opening of a Vision state. any ideas..??

i was hopin this would get a little discussion...lol, maybe its not such a cool thought afterall.

 

[Solipsis]

What I call a vision is something I see with my mind's eye. I guess CEVs might seem similar but I tend to get patterning with eyes closed more often than whole scenes happening. If I do have scenes happening with eyes closed then the line with visions becomes a fine one and I would have to say that a vision seems more deep, spiritual and meaningful and involve much more dissociation which makes the whole thing more dream-like. With visions I may almost temporarily forget where I am and become enveloped in the hallucinated vista.

 

[fridgebuzz]

I have no idea what you're talking about. Does a vision have to be specifically restricted to sight? There have been times that I've felt a pressure between my senses like they were really crossing over and I could see how I felt textures and have sounds play little tricks on my eyesight so that I can actually see the sound. Others than that, visions are just imagination, and like the guy above me said, is just the mind's eye's interpretation.

Are you talking about closing your eyes and feeling something with your hand, and then imagining what it feels like?

 

[thoughtsUnThought]

I'm just asking for help in defining the line between the two, and in defining the specifics of the two.

i understand what you're saying fridgebuzz regarding the synesthesia, though i feel that the experience of blending senses is not a full definition of what a 'visionary' state is. perhaps they are one in the same in certain instances, though personally i've had many times where the blending of my thoughts and my perception, or the blending of two sensory experiences was not correlative to the experience of visions. in my experience synesthesia though engulfing, is definitely on the side of the spectrum of 'sensory distortions', which is what i am loosely defining 'visuals' as.

regarding if a vision is limited to sight, i would say no. though thats a likely form to encounter the vision state as i feel. i can picture a state of 'visioning' which is particularly disassociated and not represented as imagery.

i definitely agree with you solipsis. there is always that sense of disassociation or other-worldy transcendence when experiencing what i consider a visioning state.

one main difference for me in the definitions, is that a vision is inscribed with specific meaning which is either understood consciously during the experience, or is very vividly sensed (in the least) as an undeniable feeling of meaning or purpose to the experience. always though, for me, what i consider a vision teaches me something. often the lesson is obviously connected to the imagery and understood during the experience itself. sometimes, there is a feeling of power and mystery in the experience, or the image and through time i draw specific insights from it.

Whereas, 'visuals' i feel are unfamiliar and abstract ways of interpreting sensory stimuli, often seemingly 'distorted' in reference to the calm and rationalized view we're used to. Sometimes this is the experience of sensory overload or the lessening of the 'turbulence filters' which our minds usually use to buffer out the chaos of all the moving particles and constantly flowing waves. usually there is a condensing procedure wherein the information being taken in by our sensory receptors is cleaned up and organized into a clean little perceptual image the likes of which can easily be put into your briefcase and used coherently in the social constructs present in our world. This 'raw sensory experience' without this filter is capable of sending me into intense trances and is certainly an 'other-worldly' feeling consciousness, though effects along these lines are markedly different from what i consider experiencing something of a vision.

more input please... :D

 

[fridgebuzz]

So visions are epiphanies and visuals are exaggerations/distortions?

 

[thoughtsUnThought]

i think visions are ingrained with epiphany, but i've certainly had epiphanies without accompanied visions.

don't think its quite so black and white...lol the gray area is a big part of what i'm trying to define.

ultimately i don't know the difference, hence this postings purpose. i was just pondering the meanings of the words, and applying that to my variety of experiences of intense-consciousness though my meditative and psychedelic experiences. the analysis of this gave me the loose definition of the difference which i've stated through my previous posts.

perhaps the difference is purely semantical, that is surely open to speculation. i'm just seeking input...seeking to philosophically engage the topic.

 

[fridgebuzz]

I think what you're saying is a vision provides a glimpse of insight into something beyond self based on the context of your environment. Perhaps looking at a tree growing in a field that is always mowed, and then realizing that tree is already dead because any copies it seeds are fated to be cut down? All I can really say for certain is Alexander Shulgin does indeed describe the mystical god encounter as being completely dose independent.

 

[eLeSaH]

Well Visuals are distortions of things you see with your eyes. Patterns are also visuals imho.

Visions are more states were there is no sensory input but somehow there is still an input. The experience of time can also change. Like you feel like you have experienced way more in way shorter time. It's dreaming or hallucinating. With some psychedelics it can be pretty intense like 4-subt tryptamines or 2c-e.