Vendors, suppliers and Bluelight

[agram]

Considering how many vendors seem to find 'ideas' for new products, perhaps it is time to close off a portion of the ADD forums to substances already known?

It seems to me that dodgy folk get their information almost fed to them in threads here, to test out on the public.

I'm sure that a subforum with more trusted folk could be created.

It's a shame that I see things this way, but I cannot say that this helps in harm reduction right now. Things used to be different, but certainly not now.

I'm really wondering if the ADD is, without intent, killing people, or damaging them.

Any opinions? I'm curious for a good debate over this. I'm certainly no moderator, but we're simply feeding the idiots what they feed the rats.

 

[fryingsquirrel]

As I see it the problem with limiting it to known substances is it would quickly become the same old subjects over and over. How many "how do I CWE percacets?" threads can you take before you scream?

 

[kken]

I dont know of a single substance that was synthed due to the fact it was discussed here. i guess its possible but do you know any?

 

[fryingsquirrel]

Some pretty obvious scammers seem to have gotten a few ideas here.

 

[kken]

Well obscure substances are easier to find on wikipedia
and so far all of the substances have been sold by vendors before thread was created here on BL

 

[giantsquid]

I think its good that vendors create things mentioned. Means people can get a chance to try new things

 

[fryingsquirrel]

^^Agreed. I've had the pleasure of trying an assortment of drugs that ten years ago would have been beyond my wildest dreams. As far as these things being potentially dangerous, the damage every drug discussed here combined will be a tiny fraction of the harm alcohol does. And few would think prohibition worked very well.

 

[agram]

It is one of the more popular websites though. Vendors don't go searching through Wiki pages trying to find new or more info, they come here. Which is one of the few places that, synth discussion not allowed, is very easy to see.

Mr. Squid, your comment makes no sense. This is a website for harm reduction, not giving new vendors the ability to make profit and possibly kill a few human rats in the process.

Is there some sort of way to get rid of this shams and arseholes who take anything read in ADD as the next possible way to make the 'new mephedrone'?

Some sort of sub-forums for folk perhaps who are not going to get shit synthed in China with possible impurities or the wrong chemical because of a new idea started here?

I love the ADD forums... But especially lately, there seems to be a lot in common with these forums and vendors.

I'm certainly not preaching for prohibition as it is something I despise. I just think that the past year or so the ADD forums are being used as a bit of a mine for dodgy vendors.

I remember good times, when RCs actually had some sort of research behind them. Tihkal, Pihkal, and such.

There is no more research that isn't just on the streets. I fucking hate head shops that sell wonderfully packaged chems with no research and potential danger.

Bluelight is for harm reduction, as I see it. Banging on about possible new chems with potential to emulate the effects of X drug just makes those pricks get an erection about profit.

And then we eventually find out that they have severe damaging effects.

 

[kken]

vendors will create it regardless so its good to have BL here to reduce the risks. my best friend would be dead thanks to RC's but he isnt. thanks to BL harm reduction

its a double edge sword.....

 

[agram]

Well obscure substances are easier to find on wikipedia
and so far all of the substances have been sold by vendors before thread was created here on BL

They must spend an awful amount of time on Wikipedia then... With almost no info to go by. They get a lot of info here, at least from my observations over the past year or so.

Any citations for that comment?

I'm just sick of the shills, scammers and potential additions to the Dark Side forums.

 

[MurphyClox]

Considering how many vendors seem to find 'ideas' for new products, perhaps it is time to close off a portion of the ADD forums to substances already known?

It seems to me that dodgy folk get their information almost fed to them in threads here, to test out on the public.

I'm sure that a subforum with more trusted folk could be created.

Ah yeah...

Then please tell me by which process do you want to select the members that will get access to the restricted forums? Do the vendors have some kinda secret label that identifies them? And how are the substances selected that will go to these restricted forums?

The idea contains some good intention but is completely futile. If you want to keep a compound hidden then simply shut up and don't talk about it! This is a public forum. Literally everyone can register, everyone can read, everyone can get ideas for his next order in China.

Every next bullshit thread a lá "there's some place offering bullshitrone-23 soon. discuss!" shall go immediately to the trash. It's all just inciting fake-interest without a tiny glimpse of some own research. I'm so sick of it!

And WTF?!

I think its good that vendors create things mentioned. Means people can get a chance to try new things

That's such a gross nonsense! 'People' behave irresponsible, overdose, wake up in ER rooms (if they wake up at all) and by this selfish behaviour they spoil the hard work of the few persons, who made up their mind about it. Whoever these 'people' may be, they deserve a fuck! Not a single one of them lifted a finger to make one of these compounds possible, but there are myriads of them who just act like retards and facilitate prohibition of said compounds.

I'm a member here for not such a long time, but simple observation showed me within few months that this forum - like many others, too - is only the playground for RC-drug dealers.


- Murphy

 

[kken]

They must spend an awful amount of time on Wikipedia then... With almost no info to go by. They get a lot of info here, at least from my observations over the past year or so.

Any citations for that comment?

I'm just sick of the shills, scammers and potential additions to the Dark Side forums.

im sure this is true to a point but with this thinking soon you have a RC scene with no harm reduction and only branded bullshit products with who knows what toxins that might create euphoria. lets start counting the body bags. BL saves lives and unneeded suffering

no sources for it, just my observations. hence i asked if someone knows of a substance that was created purely because of BL.

 

[atara]

Considering how many vendors seem to find 'ideas' for new products, perhaps it is time to close off a portion of the ADD forums to substances already known?

It seems to me that dodgy folk get their information almost fed to them in threads here, to test out on the public.

I think most of the stuff we come up with here could be found just as easily by browsing through Dr. Nichols' work. The standout offender was the whole 5-IAI mishap, and somehow not a single bit of real 5-IAI ever shipped to anyone. We're also at fault for throwing around a lot of crap about 5-methyl-MDA, but let's face it, some of the comments were to the effect of "some vendor please stock this". Somehow the vastly-easier-to-synthesize MMDA-2 never showed up, though.

Nobody here ever suggested naphyrone, I don't think. I think the vendors got that idea by reading that it was an SNDRI on Wikipedia. Somehow SNDRI = cocaine to these people. Even still, very little real naphyrone ever showed up anywhere. Same story for 6-APB, which was an accidental compound ffs and how anyone ever got real 6-APB is a mystery.

I actually think that the 5-IAI thing was a result of the fact that vendors thought bluelight readers would buy anything labeled 5-IAI. They obviously didn't care that it was active, since it was never actually 5-IAI to begin with!

 

[seep]

OP (or anyone), what determines whether a chemical is known or not? On Wikipedia, a CAS number is sufficient, and for their pharmacology articles, a history of biological literature is necessary.

 

[hamhurricane]

Freedom of information is the only way. It's naive to think that silence from the chemical cognoscenti will halt the evolution of the RC market, there is too much money at stake and the large vendors employ PhD chemists and pharmacologists as consultants anyway. As long as drugs make people feel good, and politicians feel good making drugs illegal, then new legal drugs will be manufactured come hell or high water -- or silent treatment from ADD. I think if we have some say in what drugs are circulated that is ultimately an opportunity to reduce harm though the dissemination of information regarding speculative toxicology and pharmacology.

EDIT: And I have no objection to the "a vendor may be stocking xyz" threads. It may hype the drug but the opportunity to warn people about potential dangers is the purpose of BL - are you suggesting that discussion of new RCs be prohibited simply because it indicates the drug can be purchased? That's like outlawing sex education because it might make people horny.

 

[Stafos]

The whole idea of blocking access to ADD is ludicrous. Scammy vendors are gonna exist even without ADD access. There's so many other forums where these topics can be discussed, so people will just go elsewhere.

The fact that there's a greater number of scammy vendors recently is probably more attributable to legislation in certain countries which has heightened interest in these compounds, not lessened it. So as the market demand grows, so do the number of crooks willing to take people's money. That's always the case in any situation.

But, yeah, times HAVE changed. There are serious threats to consumers that didn't exist even one or two years ago. Bluelight, I feel, has failed to appreciate that. But it's so easy to rectify! Why not use ADD, or Bluelight in general, to more proactively increase awareness to potential consumers? I mean way moreso than now. For a start, use sticky topics to educate people of the extreme dangers of consuming "branded" compounds. Use sticky topics to warn people if a compound such as NRG-1 or 5-IAI or 6-APB are found to be fakes or dangerous. No doubt some lives were saved by the sticky lethal 'fly' topic last year... do we have to wait for people to die before making a topic sticky? If something's pretty obviously dangerous, warn people first! I think such issues can be addressed without stomping on the 'no vendor discussion / no sourcing' rules.

There seems to be so much hatred for vendors here, but let's not forget, without the vendors what would 99% of us be talking about here? Probably complaining about the lack of vendors... Don't forget that not all vendors are greedy scammy bastards, some of them honestly want to do a good service for our community. A rare few of them are even in a position to commission novel compounds, occasionally even compounds never previously discussed before on ADD, and that's not a bad thing at all!

 

[MurphyClox]

Don't forget that not all vendors are greedy scammy bastards, some of them honestly want to do a good service for our community. A rare few of them are even in a position to commission novel compounds, occasionally even compounds never previously discussed before on ADD, and that's not a bad thing at all!

There may indeed be some of those, but their number is dwindling and they are definitely not the ones who are recognized by governments and the rainbow press. It's the mass of unethical bastards that ruin the whole scene in shortest time, including the business of their ethical competitors.

For this reason I think that the following argument (which is frequently cited in discussions like this one), is wrong:

There seems to be so much hatred for vendors here, but let's not forget, without the vendors what would 99% of us be talking about here?

Yes, without RC-vendors most of you wouldn't have access to any drug except for what is available on the street in your place. But what is constantly ignored is that the free availability only lasts for a few years (if at all) and usually ends in substantial extensions of anti-drug laws. USA, UK, Australia, NZ already have them.
Take as (counter)example MDMA: Shulgin started to experiment with it mid of the 1960s (Erowid), it became available on the underground-market around 1977, but it didn't join Schedule I before 1985 (resp. 1988 )! There are ca. 20 years between start and end of this story. How many years passed between the first appearance of the AAI-cannabinoids on the free market and their general ban?


The RC-market definitely destroys:

- ... the research of serious scientists who have a hard time getting licenses to work with these substances, as soon as they get prohibited. This directly equals hampering important research, which could have led to new pharmaceuticals or therapies. Example: Look at the advance that LSD-based psychotherapy has done since its prohibition; almost nil!

- ... the business of pharma-companies that have to drop whole classes of compounds because they were spoiled by ignorant folks beforehand. Example: The AAIs, or better known to the ignorant crowd as JWH-018 & Co. Do you have any idea how much money went down the drain due to this???

- ... the intellectual and practical expenditures of the underground-chemists, who even made these compounds available by finding new and better routes of synthesis etc.

- ... the reputation of the whole drug-scene in general. There are legalisation-movements in almost every industrial country, but they have a damn hard time argueing when some stupid chavs drop dead after another overdose from the most recent RC.​

And ALL THIS only because some people want to have free access to psychoactives? I say Fuck 'em! These people have done nothing to bring these drugs into existence but they are doing literally everything to make them illegal within shortest time.


In the industry there are patents. The only possible solution for the underground-market can be confidentiality.


- Murphy

 

[MagickalKat777]

I don't think more censorship is going to help things any... let people do what they're going to do... It doesn't affect us. If they don't get ideas here, they will get even more dangerous ideas in their own heads...

 

[fryingsquirrel]

I actually think that the 5-IAI thing was a result of the fact that vendors thought bluelight readers would buy anything labeled 5-IAI. They obviously didn't care that it was active, since it was never actually 5-IAI to begin with!

And of course quite a few did, but shit if people aren't gonna do a little checking into the place they order from they might as well be buying wax from the local fake crack dealer.

 

[pofacedhoe]

VIP nonsense goes aginst the whole ethos of bluelight which is that it is for everybody, anyway if you want to avoid bullshit just dont look at the 6apb thread-which seems to have neatly contained the crap that it generated

the problem with legalisation is political fear and rupert murdoch types- together nothing will be free