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Vegetarianism vs meat eating

>>If it wasn't for the fact that many fish test for the highest carcinogen content (due to water pollution) among other commonly eaten animals.>>

Yeah...being vegan myself, I don't really pay attention to these issues.
:)

ebola
 
Gary Gnu

^ I wasn't so much pulling the anthro card to defend a position as I was pointing out someone else's anti-vegetarian position and arguments were extremely poor (my motivation being that I see his position a lot and it annoys me). I *know* I can't show anything about how our physiology evolved nor do I need to to make my point. UnfortunateSquid in response to a thread about vegetarianism's health benefits says:

"The human body was never meant to live exclusively on vegetables."

To back up the claim he states, "Man has been eating animals since the dawn of time."

So, man has been eating animals since the dawn of time (1), therefore, the human body was never meant to live exclusively on vegetables (2).

It just doesn't make any fucking sense. 2 doesn't follow from 1. 1 isn't obviously true (the fact that you'd have to narrow it down to more specific time periods and cite various theories and research to support it shows that its not an obviously, or uncontroversibly true statement).

You're comitting me to things I never committed to. I was never trying to prove that vegetarianism played a significant role in evolution. I don't have to to make my point! Saying, "there are people who have survived off of vegetables for a long time and still do" is all I'm committed to.

You say I never gave evidence that vegetarianism is long established. I guess you missed my example of Plato in the republic? 2400 years is plenty established for me to consider vegetarianism a safe diet and to refute that we "were never meant" to eat this way.

You don't like the earlier societies example (context of 'earlier' being earlier than Plato which was left out of your quotation) because I don't have sources, fine (though its not like i need them - its a BL post not a formal essay). Plato (the Republic) and myself will do. Why are you expecting me to back up extravagant claims about human physiology and evolution that I never made?

As for your other quibble: I know you were talking about small intestines. I referenced large intestines to show that we can point to different aspects of human biology to support either position. I wasn't trying to refute what you said about small intestines. Notice I said, "as for our intestines" not "as for our large intestines" I do have the source for that somewhere on my bookshelf but I don't have time to waste digging it up. :)

edited for clarification and to say: I get the imprssion that you hastily read a part of one of my posts, made assumptions without the context of my other posts and posts they were in response to and started arguing against things I never said.
 
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never ending feud
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it seems odd to me that this topic causes so much "feuding" and conflict. it's just a dietary and consumer choice, not a call to arms. ;)

Whether our ancestors ate a vegetarian diet or a omnivorous one really is of no consequence, as our bodies can obviously handle it either.

The modern meat packing industry is pretty frightening however. Rendering plants process 100s of animals an hour, and even a small amount of feces intestine can contaminate large amounts of meat. This is one reason why the meat packing industry irradiates meat and recently plan on spraying meat with bacteria killing viruses. Of course it the vegetable industry is also not safe from disease, as this recent out break of spinach e. coli has shown 8o
 
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I just do what I feel is right for me. I don't care what we were, or what we will be. I could be following a "natural" course of evolution, or I could be a speck in an abnormal spike in roughage consumption.

It doesn't matter!! People can eat what they do, and be lab rats for each other. It's important to consider, though, that aside from food, we swim in 10 million other variables that affect health, such as lifestyle, environment, etc.

Of course I do wish that one day no animals would not be eaten anymore, but I don't judge people who do it! My most loved-est ones do, on a regular basis, in copious amounts. Vegetarians have no monopoly on greatness, neither do meat eaters, neither does anyone else.
 
^ agreed.


it's gotten to the point where i go out of my way not to tell people i'm vegetarian sometimes just because it's such a ridiculous argument-starting topic.
right off the bat people ask some stupid question like, "do you cry if you step on ants?" or "think of the pain of the poor vegetables" 8)

jesus fucking christ people, not all herbivores are snooty, altruistic elitists that condemningly impose their morals on everyone else.







some of us are even nice sometimes.
 
When I was a vegan, I was one of those altruistic condescending asshole types. :\
 
When I was a vegan, I was one of those altruistic condescending asshole types
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When I went veg, I was too... but I am pretty sure I still am!

The way I figure it, if you don't like the moral issues of eating meat.. OK. If you don't like the chemicals in meat OK. If you think that it is inheriantly bad for you, I disagree.

In moderation meat is not unhealthy. I get REALLY pissed when people make claimes about what "man" did in the ancient past, and don't know their shit.
 
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StagnantReaction said:
>>In moderation meat is not unhealthy.

It's extremely hard to prove this right or wrong.
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Maybe you could look at the eating habits of long-lived people. Take a sample of people who are >100 yrs old and, all other factors being equal, find out what proportion are vegies.
Anybody have access to PubMed where you could look this up?
 
Funny thing is, when you look at a lot of people who live to be 100 years old, they seem to always say that they ate what they want, drank what they want, smoked what they want, and balanced it all with some exercise and crossword puzzles. Hardly scientific method, but probably means something.
 
Church said:
Funny thing is, when you look at a lot of people who live to be 100 years old, they seem to always say that they ate what they want, drank what they want, smoked what they want, and balanced it all with some exercise and crossword puzzles. Hardly scientific method, but probably means something.
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Yeah, that life expectancy isn't a formula, and there is much element of randomness and genetics.

We will live longer than our great grandparents did because of better health care, and hopefully more educated health (eating) choices. That proves that life expectancy isn't a random deal, and can be changed by changing lifestyle/eating habits.
 
^ exactly, that's what I was trying to say, only you did a better job of it. Basically, life expectancy isn't formulaic.
 
Dtergent said:
I just do what I feel is right for me. I don't care what we were, or what we will be. I could be following a "natural" course of evolution, or I could be a speck in an abnormal spike in roughage consumption.

It doesn't matter!! People can eat what they do, and be lab rats for each other. It's important to consider, though, that aside from food, we swim in 10 million other variables that affect health, such as lifestyle, environment, etc.

Vegetarians have no monopoly on greatness, neither do meat eaters, neither does anyone else.
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my sentiments exactly. And I'm one of your meat loving friends ;)
 
Church said:
Funny thing is, when you look at a lot of people who live to be 100 years old, they seem to always say that they ate what they want, drank what they want, smoked what they want, and balanced it all with some exercise and crossword puzzles. Hardly scientific method, but probably means something.
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Longevity isn't exactly an indication of good health.
 
No, but the ones I was referring to were people who were also in good health. My great-grandmother, for instance, was 100 when she died, and she went dancing on her last night alive (and twice a week for the 60 or so years leading up to that night). She always ate what she wanted, she drank wine with all her meals, and she was basically healthy, except for her declining eyesight.

I'm just saying, there is no formula for staying alive and well. Or rather, there are millions, if not billions, of formulas.
 
I haven't read through this thread but all I really have to say is

MEAT EATING = CANNIBALISM

Would you eat your pet dog or your pet cat? So why would you eat a fish, or a cow, or a deer, or chicken or whatever? Animals have life and taking that life for your own pleasure (eating meat is no longer a survival issue) is morally wrong. I know someone will say "well isn't it wrong to kill plants too?" and yes I agree, it is wrong to destroy any living creature on purpose for your own pleasure. I don't eat root vegetables and I don't eat any vegetable that it would destroy the whole plant to harvest.

I've been vegetarian (no dairy, eggs, etc) for 12 years and my health hasn't been affected by that whatsoever.
 
itsjustme said:
I know someone will say "well isn't it wrong to kill plants too?" and yes I agree, it is wrong to destroy any living creature on purpose for your own pleasure. I don't eat root vegetables and I don't eat any vegetable that it would destroy the whole plant to harvest.

I've been vegetarian (no dairy, eggs, etc) for 12 years and my health hasn't been affected by that whatsoever.
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With that mentality suicide would be the only justice.

How do you expect to sustain yourself without hurting anyone. Impossibility. Life is a conflict of interest face it.
 
Meh, this thread is supposed to be about health concerns in comparison between meat eating and not. Must you force your strong beliefs on how you feel about different living organisms in here?

On a subjective note, my vegetarian colon seems a lot healthier since I've been veggie.
 
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