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Vegas Mandalay Bay mass shooting / Gun Control 2017 Thread

My point exactly. This is still a gun control thread, whatever you call it and at the first opportunity people will attempt to continue it.

So please please please don't make a school shooting megathread because it would be a lie. A lie supported by a horrible tragedy at that.

For what it's worth, I probably don't care any more than anyone else myself. But at least I'm honest about it.
 
Those are a lot of words for someone who doesn't really care.

I think you make a good point about the mock outrage and pretend caring.
 
Guns are nuts! I am a Canadian and own 5 handguns, wife owns 3 and we have a shitload of rifles and shotguns. I look at the whole thing as a sport, although if shit hits the fan I am glad I have them. Theres no answers though.
Here is one city - Chicago, take a look

https://heyjackass.com/
 
JessFR said:
So please, don't make a school shooting megathread. That's a lie. That's not what it'll be. It'll be a gun control thread. So call it what it is.
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Pretty much this. If we're to make some kind of mega thread for all the news items about a certain topic, then the thread isnt really about that topic, but what should be done about it, with the individual news stories as supporting evidence. A thread on the problem of escalating gun violence and what should be done about it wouldn't be a bad idea tho; thats pretty much what this thread has turned into at this point.
 
At this point? Like all mass shooting threads it became that barely half way into the first page. It always does.

I'm all for the gun control megathread idea. Seems a bit pointless to keep having the same thread on the same subject over and over, we could at least keep it all convinced to the same place.
 
11 mass shootings occuring within the U.S. in less than a month. Even though the U.S. is a large country, that is an alarming number, especially when we compare this to other "first world" countries. The cycle of:
... -> mass shooting -> "can't discuss gun control, people just died!" -> mass shooting -> "can't discuss gun control, people just died!" -> ...
is so fucking idiotic. Yes. It is appropriate to debate gun control immediately after a mass murderer kills a bunch of innocent people. It is appropriate to discuss rehabilitation after someone OD's, right? It is appropriate to discuss improving security after a terrorist attack, right? It is appropriate to discuss going to war with another nation if said nation pre-emptively attacked your nation, right?

Politicians will always take advantage of people's suffering to obtain political capital. It is the nature of the game. We may as well allow some of them to do so if it prevents some people from being murdered.
 
Is it really so disruptive to wait maybe a couple of weeks to discuss what to do?

Regardless of how moral it is or isn't to start discussing it however long after the event. There's little point to it. You think it doesn't get fixed because people say the day if the tragedy might be too soon to discuss it? No. Because nobody pays any attention to it and it gets discussed anyway. And discussed, and discussed.

The discussion is this countries alternative to change. We have the same debate again and again, strengthen our resolve to be uncompromising, and that uncompromising resolve prevents change. So no change happens. And around and around we go.

Nothings gonna happen. Some day some president when the conditions are right might have a gun control victory, then some day later the other side will have a victory and undo a lot of it.

It's a joke.

Most of the gun control changes being suggested won't even work even if we put them into practice. That's how big a joke it is. We argue nonstop over changes that even if we put in practice STILL wouldn't fix anything. We aren't even at the point of discussing anything that might work.


Yeah let's put in another assault weapons ban. Didn't do anything last time, but its a nice feel good policy created by idiots to feel like and get others to feel like something has been done.

It's a joke. A pathetic unfunny joke.
 
Personally, I think the old adage "strike while the iron is hot" is appropriate here. If discussing gun control is not appropriate immediately after a shooting, I suspect we won't ever resolve it.

I suspect we won't resolve it anyway. :\
 
Well I certainly agree with the second part. Which is one of the big reasons I don't agree much with the first part.

I guess if I thought there might be some actual good to come out of it I'd be less averse to this kind of thing. It doesn't seem right to me for everyone to seize on a mass shooting for political gains irrespective of the victims beliefs. But it's made all the worse that nothing good comes of it.

I mean, its one thing to make it political if it might save others in future, but there being nothing to gain from it. Or worse that it likely contributes to nothing getting changed.

It's several things that bother me about it. Not just that it uses people's deaths for political gain, or that it does it on the same day it happens, or that it's for no point. But also that the argument increases people's stubborn extremes and prolongs the problem. But add all of it together and then I really start getting down on it.

I honestly think these "discussions" make things worse rather than better. To improve things requires change, and change requires compromise. but all these gun control arguments to is strengthen people's positions and radicalized them. And compromise gets less likely.
 
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One big issue is that if we wait 2 weeks after a mass shooting occurs, there will almost always be another mass shooting before the 2 weeks has elapsed.
 
Apostacious said:
One big issue is that if we wait 2 weeks after a mass shooting occurs, there will almost always be another mass shooting before the 2 weeks has elapsed.
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So talk about the first one then wait 2 weeks to talk about the second one.

Really the time to talk about societies problems isn't the day people die OR a short time later. It's before anyone's died at all.
 
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JessFR said:
So talk about the first one then wait 2 weeks to talk about the second one.

Really the time to talk about societies problems isn't the day people die OR a short time later. It's before anyone's died at all.
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So, only talk about the tragedies? What about discussing a very easy solution to the problem, which is independent of any specific tragedy?
 
Apostacious said:
So, only talk about the tragedies? What about discussing a very easy solution to the problem, which is independent of any specific tragedy?
Click to expand...

Sorry I'm not sure I understand what you're suggesting. Or perhaps it's the other way around and you don't understand what I'm suggesting.

I think it would be better if people were discussing gun control in general. My whole problem here is people pouncing on specific mass shootings to use them for political mileage. Of they were talking about solutions independent of any specific tragedy I'd see no ethical problem. My ethical concern is because the debate circles around specific tragedys.

Im saying if you must use specific events you could at least wait until the victims are buried, or even just a week or two. But having the discussion entirely separately is even better.

All I dislike about this is that people are using people's deaths to further a political cause, one the victims might not even have agreed with, starting on the same day they died.

I can imagine say if I were the victim in a mass shooting, I find it infuriating to think my death could be used to further a political agenda I disagree with. All the while suggesting that it's because the person doing it cares about my death.

They don't care about the victims, they care about the politics. The victims are just ammunition. That's my problem here.

But as I said. I might be misunderstanding what you're saying. But I'm assuming you're asking of I'm opposed to discussing the issue as a whole separate to any specific event. In which case the answer is no, quite the opposite.

But there is no easy solution to this problem. Unless you're the type of person who thinks the easy solution to violence is for everyone to stop being violent. In which case we have a different idea of what the word easy means.
 
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