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valproic acid / valproate and 2c-c combination

emkee_reinvented

emkee_reinvented

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Is their anybody who knows why the combo of valproic acid / valproate with phenethylamines or tryptamines are dangerous or potentially unsafe. Just read thru the dangerous combo faq a few days ago and posted my question their, but didn't get any responses "yet", so I decided to repost here.

The indication I am on depakine is bipolar II dosage is 1000/ 1500 mg once a day. In the near future I was thinking experimenting with 2c-c starting low when I read the warning. It strikes me as odd as mdma, uppers/ downers/ painkillers and even dissociatives, which drive even healthy people MANIC from time to time, are ok. But phenethylamines and tryptamines are generalized as no go area.

See http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/threads/648356-List-of-Dangerous-amp-Potentially-Unsafe-Combinations and http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/threads/645957-Dangerous-Combination-Discussion-Thread?p=11426959&viewfull=1#post11426959


Only info I found was that for people who are on valproic acid / valproate trips could get more confusing, this was not scientific info but anecdotal. But in general bipolar's seem to be able to benefit from psychedelic experiences.
 
2002Tii said:
I think it is because those medications lower your seizure threshold.
Click to expand...

like Anon wrote Tii if the seizure treshold was the problem mdma and stimulants would be of far greater concern.

For now I am just guessing psychedelic activity plays a role but why? Someone on a other forum wrote about bipolar 's having diffecult trips. But again ain't got nothing to do with Valproic acid (VPA) would count for un medicated bipolar's too.

Edit: Then i looked for things phens and trypts have in common and found they both effect the 5-HT2A receptor. When looking for the influence of VPA on that receptor it seems to be by upregulation of the 5-HT2A receptor number.
see http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/?term=Effect+of+valproic+acid+on+serotonin-2A+receptor+signaling+in+C6+glioma+cells.

2c-c seems like such a mild phenethylamine unlike 2c-t7 so why the broad covering of all phenethylamines, again odd?


Maybe when its answered, or stays unanswered, a mod can merge this in the discussion on bad combinations thread
 
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emkee_reinvented said:
Edit: Then i looked for things phens and trypts have in common and found they both effect the 5-HT2A receptor. When looking for the influence of VPA on that receptor it seems to be by upregulation of the 5-HT2A receptor number.
see http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/?term=Effect+of+valproic+acid+on+serotonin-2A+receptor+signaling+in+C6+glioma+cells.
Click to expand...

Any idea what kinda effect is to be expected from upregulation of the number of 5-HT2A receptors, on psychedelics?
 
2002Tii said:
I stand corrected, must be thinking of something else. I'll try again and say that it may cause extreme undesirable potentiation and increased side effects.
Click to expand...

Seems possible altogether but can be helped by adjusting dosage. I find it weird LSD is not contraindicated too as it is a potent 5-HT2A psychedelic. It is clearly put in a different category as phens & tryps in the bad combo faq. So was this a mistake a inconsistency or is there an other reason for the danger/ bad effects mentioned?
 
I take depakote(sodium valproate:valporic acid) to help me sleep, and I just so happen to have some 2C-C coming to me. Should I stop taking I indefinitely, or just take a day off when I plan to trip?

Just so you guys know, I can stop taking it at any time. I'm not bi-polar and already use clonazep for my movement disorder/tremors so that wouldn't be a problem. I'd like to see some studies that would back up the contraindication we are discussing.
 
How offlabel can you go with a med entheo, not that it matters. Personally I notice no effect on sleep like benzo's or melatonin and seeing all the precautions like bloodtests to monitor the liverfunction a bit overkill? Does it help though for you.

And before we are sure about the interaction bluelight is the only place I see it mentioned. Not backed up by anything scientific I would like some more info or views myself.
 
entheo said:
I take depakote(sodium valproate:valporic acid) to help me sleep, and I just so happen to have some 2C-C coming to me. Should I stop taking I indefinitely, or just take a day off when I plan to trip?
Click to expand...

One could use the half live to take a safe ammount of time to let the body metabolize it out, the half-life ranges from 8 to 16 hours according to http://professionals.epilepsy.com/medications/p_valproicacid_pharma.html

Also found that a lot of the Valproate is highly bound (90 procent) to proteins in the blood. Thus, only 10 procent is free or unbound and able to enter the brain. From the same link as above, anyone know what effects that will have on phens & tryps and vica versa.
 
protein binding of Valproic acid

emkee_reinvented said:
Also found that a lot of the Valproate is highly bound (90 procent) to proteins in the blood. Thus, only 10 procent is free or unbound and able to enter the brain. From the same link as above, anyone know what effects that will have on phens & tryps and vica versa.
Click to expand...

According to, but not limited, Wikipedia protein binding influences the unbound (read effective part) of other drugs/ medications.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plasma_protein_binding

Like mentioned in Tii's reply this will at least increase effects of the 2c-c or any other phen or tryp. I having a hard time finding protein binding charts for the both. Although it would probably only generate another realm of questions. Learned enough pharmacology for a day, interesting field of research me likes. Can someone confirm/ or dismiss the protein binding factor for us. Would be appreciated.
 
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