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"Valium Gas" in film... possible in reality?

Jamshyd

Jamshyd

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I don't know if anyone else here is into international film. But recently, I watched the Korean film "Oldboy." In the beginning of the film, the narrator talks about his captives using "Valium Gas" whenever they wanted to knock him out. ("Valium Gas" was also suspect in the russian theatre seige before it was identified as a fentanyl derivative - in the latter case, it is conceivable since many fent. analogues are very potent).

With the recent discussion about Aerosol-based dexedrine, how possible is it in reality for the above scenario portrayed? The author seems aware of different drugs - later in the film he mentions the use of Sodium Barbiturate in liquid form (I believe).
 
Perhaps, but it would make much more sense to use a ultra-potent mu agonist (opiate), preferably one that it a partial agonist so the effect "tops out" so if they start hyperventilating they won't die :P .

These are the fentanyl derivatives you speak of, but from what I can see it's possible some would die from overexposure/overdose unless they're partial agonists...
 
Oh I don't think it would be too useful in a medical setting, especially with something as slow as diazepam. I'd understand if thet used, say, Lorazepam for the cases you mentioned above but, as you said again, N2O is easier and safer.

However, in the case of the film cited, it was used by the antagonist to control the protagonist's consciousness while he had him imprisoned. I would not be the least bit surprised if some fucker thought of doing the same thing in the form of a weapon.

When the russian raids happened, people jumped the gun and assumed it was actually BZ. Then others thought it was "valium gas" - but then the russians themselves announced that it was a fentanyl analogue. In any case, it is all just as disgusting as tear-gas or spiking someone's drink and raping them.

I am simply wondering what is the possibility of making diazepam airbourne and effective at the same time?

Just in case anyone wonders.. I am just asking out of curiousity (as to the film's accuracy) - I am perfectly happy with my diazepam sublingually.

But I would actually be terrified of such weapons being used as a form of social control...
 
The author seems aware of different drugs - later in the film he mentions the use of Sodium Barbiturate in liquid form (I believe).
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Not really as the sodium salt of barbituric acid is inactive. To be an active drug it has to be a 5,5-disubstituted derivative.

As fir the valium gas, it's not inconceivable that there's a benzo that never made it to clinical use that is highly potent and short acting (like the benzo withdrawn in the UK because of accidental repeat administration while in that state - cant remember name, but was marketed under name Halcyion. It was active at 125ug) and could be administered as a finr aerosol

When the russian raids happened, people jumped the gun and assumed it was actually BZ. Then others thought it was "valium gas" - but then the russians themselves announced that it was a fentanyl analogue. In any case, it is all just as disgusting as tear-gas or spiking someone's drink and raping them.
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The disgusting part wasn't that the 'knockout gas' was used, as it was intended to save lives in a situation involving suicide bombers, but that people brought out of the theartre we're left on their backs to choke on vomit, or that the people going in to bring the hostages out weren't given doses of naloxone to administer to the people immediately. Had that been done, it's possible that all of the hostages would have been brought out alive
 
What about LSD aerosol? I've often wonder about this... It seems perhaps it might break down to easy to be exposed to the air... What say yee?
 
Inhaled anaesthetics for surgery, such as halothane or sevoflurane, are halogenated gases that are very effective, but require that the concentration of the gas be carefully controlled to maintain a safe and effective dosage. An inhaled benzo would also have to be carefully administered to have the desired effect without too much respiratory depression (in fact, it might actually be even harder to use properly). The fentanyl-based gas the Russians used was chosen because it has the widest theraputic index (ratio of lethal dose to minumum effective dose) of anything available, and even then they managed to kill a few dozen people with ODs.
 
aerosol valium and scopolamine are the ingredients of the notoriuos bogota cocktails...scopolamine to cause transient amnesia and dreamlike state diazepam to prevent manic behaviour.
 
What's a bogota cocktail? Is it a type of drink served in Columbia?

vecktor said:
aerosol valium and scopolamine are the ingredients of the notoriuos bogota cocktails...scopolamine to cause transient amnesia and dreamlike state diazepam to prevent manic behaviour.
Click to expand...
 
hussness said:
What's a bogota cocktail? Is it a type of drink served in Columbia?
Click to expand...

its a spray that is used to rob people, I think it is also called burandanga or soemthing similar. people have been sprayed then talked into emptying bank accounts or similar and then have no memory of it.
 
Heh.. and to think, I'm prescribed Halcion ;)

Yes, I've heard of scopolamine being used as a weapon before... Vecktor: Maybe you're thinking of Brugmansia?
 
for an overview of psychotropic warfare check out
http://www.sunshine-project.org/incapacitants/jnlwdpdf/psucalm.pdf
this is 7 years old and the USMC and others have spent a lot of money and time researching new agents, all classified. interestingly few patents have appeared, the military researchers traditionally patent things and write articles in scientific journals which don't explicity identify the agents as warfare agents but give an idea of what they are looking at, for example the Russians published work on compounds related to Novichok nerve agents which enables an informed guess as to what novichok is.

Apparently aerosolised valium is very effective as a calmative/incapacitant
Midazolam is apparently more effective due its rapid onset and high potency.
 
Any solid compound can be aerosolised regardless of molecular weight, the particle size just has to be small enough.

Don't have access to my uni notes at the moment but from memory if you can get your drug particles smaller than 20 microns or so then the settling time becomes so long that once they are suspended in air they will effectively behave just like a gas.

Media reports at the time of that theatre seige said that the "Kolokol-1" gas was a suspension of aerosolised 3-methylfentanyl in halothane which would be a rather incapacitating mixture i imagine...but i guess it was originally developed as a military weapon so they wouldn't have had very good plans for resuscitating people afterwards...plus halothane causes nausea just by itself, and most of the deaths were from aspiration of vomit rather than opioid overdose per se.

Also as the nature of the gas was a military secret they didn't even tell the attending doctors that it even contained an opioid at first, and when you hear the cause of unconciousness as "incapacitating gas" a fentanyl derivative would not be an obvious choice, so many of the victims didn't recieve naloxone at all.

That said, i thought it was an innovative and effective approach for storming the building, given that the terrorists had wired it with explosives and planned to detonate them when the special forces team moved in. As F&B says, if the hospital staff had been properly informed at the time and the victims had been laid on their sides so they didn't drown then most of them probably would have survived.
 
yeah Oldboy was one of the sickest movies i've ever seen.1 guy fucks his sister & gets revenge on the guy who teased him by brainwashing him into fucking his own daughter. IMO one of the best foreign horror films. I'm surprised you meantioned the valium-gas thing too, that actually raised my eyebrows as well when i saw it. with the volume of gas used in the movie considered, it would've had to be a really low concentration. it was my understanding they used it to induce sleep, not so much to control his emotions. i remember thinking if i were ever in prison, that would be the one id chose as id have the option of huffing the gas if i wanted to get really high or commit suicide.
as far as it being possible in reality, id have to say yes. but not in america. i dont think it'd be practical, however. there would be too high of a risk of death from inhaling too much. real institutions probably do not use valium gas to sedate their captives.
brilliant idea for the movie though. everyone go out and watch 'Oldboy' if you haven't already!! its fucking SICK!!!=D
 
I read the gas was a fent derivitive, and that it was etropine. No way to tell. One thing we are sure off, it was an opiate.
 
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