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Opioids Using kratom after hydromorphone

Deadbeathophead

Greenlighter
Joined
Jul 12, 2013
Messages
14
Just ran out of dilaudid and I expect I'll be feeling rather sick sooner than later, was wondering if I'de be in the clear to use kratom 8-9 hours after after having used 6 mg of hydromorphone? While this is a small dose and kratom is a rather weak substance, and i certainly wouldn't expect to over sedate or anything I just wanted to know if I should expect any unusual side effects. Any help is appreciated. Cheers.
 
Yes, as far as I know kratom doesn't produce precipitated withdrawals like suboxone does. Treat it like taking some hydrocodones or something.
 
Hope it's ok to revive an old'ish thread as I have a similar question. My quick story is 5+ year chronic pain patient who ended at about 50+mg hydromorphone (Dilaudid) a day. Went through an in-patient detox 1 month ago but my pain all came back about a week ago. Got a small script from my doc, just 15 tabs (I usually got 240). Took about 3 a day for 5 days to help control the pain and tappered down to 1 tablet over the last 24 hours (broke it into quarters). I just took my last 1mg (halfed the quarter) and as I bought some kratom today I'm wondering how best to dose it with the goal of preventing any WD symptoms as I started a new job today and can't be sick this week.

It's probable I'm going to have to go back on the hydromorphone as my pain is back, I see my specialist tomorrow. I took my last 1mg at 4 pm and see here almost exactly 24 hours later. Assuming she fills my script I'll be able to take a small dose tomorrow night. So I picked up some kratom from a local head shop with a good reputation for kratom. Got some concentrated powered (says 60x) and some capsules - guy said he takes 5-6 of them for sedation (but isn't an opiate user) so I took 10. He said he takes 1/4 of the powder so I took 1/3. Again just looking to stave off any WD for tomorrow.

Thoughts on how much more, or how often to take it? I also took some Tagament (cimetidine) and have plenty of Immodium (loperamide) as I've heard good things about both. Any thoughts there too?
 
Hope it's ok to revive an old'ish thread as I have a similar question. My quick story is 5+ year chronic pain patient who ended at about 50+mg hydromorphone (Dilaudid) a day. Went through an in-patient detox 1 month ago but my pain all came back about a week ago. Got a small script from my doc, just 15 tabs (I usually got 240). Took about 3 a day for 5 days to help control the pain and tappered down to 1 tablet over the last 24 hours (broke it into quarters). I just took my last 1mg (halfed the quarter) and as I bought some kratom today I'm wondering how best to dose it with the goal of preventing any WD symptoms as I started a new job today and can't be sick this week.

It's probable I'm going to have to go back on the hydromorphone as my pain is back, I see my specialist tomorrow. I took my last 1mg at 4 pm and see here almost exactly 24 hours later. Assuming she fills my script I'll be able to take a small dose tomorrow night. So I picked up some kratom from a local head shop with a good reputation for kratom. Got some concentrated powered (says 60x) and some capsules - guy said he takes 5-6 of them for sedation (but isn't an opiate user) so I took 10. He said he takes 1/4 of the powder so I took 1/3. Again just looking to stave off any WD for tomorrow.

Thoughts on how much more, or how often to take it? I also took some Tagament (cimetidine) and have plenty of Immodium (loperamide) as I've heard good things about both. Any thoughts there too?

In my experience, kratom can be hard to pre-dose. Potency seems to be all over the place when it comes to getting it in the US. Also, everyone varies a bit in their withdrawals. I would pick a number, start there, and increase if you need to. You'll find out quickly what you need. However, it does help a lot.

Loperamide is great and I think diazepam is not a bad idea, if you don't take it for more than a week (no point in coming out of this with a new addiction).
 
Thanks guys - my goal right now is to simply avoid any WD tomorrow although I'm hopeful I won't have any anyway as I have been good and tapering lately. Unfortunately I'm going to have to go back to the dilaudid until I figure out the root cause of my pain, which I thought I had done but clearly haven't.

As for diazepam you're probably right but I'm never again going to take a benzo - don't really like them anyway and as you said don't need another dependence. It took about 6 days to break the hydromorphone dependence and while that sucked I lived through it and will be able to once again.

As for the kratom I hear you guys on dosing - from what I started with so far I feel pretty - well - great honestly. I almost started nodding a bit (it seemed) which would surprise me as I rarely feel the dilaudid when I take it (again for pain not fun). I started with 10 every 4 hours so we'll see how that goes. I think I'll be fine tomorrow, just doing all I can to ensure that.
 
Some tips:

Don't buy kratom from headshops or legal-high websites
Don't buy kratom in capsule form
Check for certified vendors on kratom focus forums - don't rely on the reviews on a vendors websites as they are filtered and/or shills

Kratom has completely removed withdrawal from a heavy heroin habit, so yes, it will occupy your receptors enough to get you by with little discomfort.
 
Some tips:

Don't buy kratom from headshops or legal-high websites
Don't buy kratom in capsule form
Check for certified vendors on kratom focus forums - don't rely on the reviews on a vendors websites as they are filtered and/or shills

Kratom has completely removed withdrawal from a heavy heroin habit, so yes, it will occupy your receptors enough to get you by with little discomfort.


Thanks for the advice, while the stuff from my local shop does seem pretty good if I had a better online source I would use it (can people PM me with details?)
 
I don't know if this is available where you are but suboxone is amazing for this... and easier to quit!
 
^The problem with Buprenorphine are the already mentioned precipitated withdrawals that set in if the person is already physically addicted to opioids. So it is not much of an option for OP.
Also Kratom is legal (not everywhere) and even easier to quit from and a great tool to taper yourself off higher potent opioids.
I used it to come off Buprenorphine myself and it pretty much saved my ass.
 
I don't know if this is available where you are but suboxone is amazing for this... and easier to quit!

I take issue with the bolded part of your statement. As someone who has gone through both withdrawals at different times I can tell you without a doubt that Kratom withdrawals are a walk in the park compared to Suboxone.
 
Kratom..what a life saver..just a tip stay away from the extracts and so-called enhanced kratom..stick with the plain leaf probably maeng da is a good place to start..good to hear u are clean from hydromorphone..great job man %)
 
Thanks for the input everyone - quick update, I did go back to the hydromorphone for a bit again but have finally decided pain or not I'm done. My last dose of it was 6 days ago and while the withdrawal has been hard I have been able to work this week. My main two issues are nausea and exhaustion both of which seem to be getting better.

I am having a hard time figuring out the dosage of the kratom though. I found what I believe to be a very well respected online vendor (did lots of research there) but so far it doesn't seem to be doing much. I'm taking as much of it as I can stand - mixing it with various fruit juices to try to get it down. I'm not really sure if it's helping or not, it's not like after 30 minutes after taking it I really feel any better/different. I can't decide if my tolerance is just so high that it won't affect me, it's placebo or it really is helping. So any continued thoughts on how much I'd take? It's a premium Bali extracted powder.
 
Well, kratom is the only opioid I have much experience with, so I'm not too sure about cross-tolerance issues. How much have you taken? In my experience, kratom's therapeutic index (the difference between an effective dose and over dose) narrows considerably once tolerance reaches a point where you need more than about 10g at a time (and around 20-30g per day.) Once I reached that level of usage, kratom would only prevent me from getting sick; no "high" and not much in the way of pain relief. However, even though kratom ceased to have any noticeable affect, even just 3g/day was enough to considerably improve withdrawal when I eventually decided to get clean for a while. So I'd say if you've taken more than 10g in one go and withdrawal hasn't improved, you either need to find another strain/vendor or your tolerance is simply too high to benefit from kratom (though I think that's unlikely - I wouldn't really expect you to get any sort of buzz off it, but it should at least ease withdrawal symptoms somewhat).

If you're having trouble physically taking enough kratom, I'd recommend the "toss-n-wash" method instead of mixing with juice or making tea. Just funnel like .5-2g in your mouth at a time (aim for the tip of your tongue - it's seriously nasty if you accidentally get the stuff in the back of your throat), take a swig of water, swish it around your mouth for a few secs and swallow. So long as you don't leave the kratom and water in your mouth for too long, all the bitter stuff in the leaves doesn't seem to have a chance to dissolve into the water, so I find it less bitter and nasty tasting than mixing into a drink.
 
Kratom..what a life saver..just a tip stay away from the extracts and so-called enhanced kratom..stick with the plain leaf probably maeng da is a good place to start..good to hear u are clean from hydromorphone..great job man %)

This is a good idea, especially if you are trying to come off opiates. However I would like to add that if you are coming off a large habit, heroin for example, then I definitely recommend ordering some of the more potent kratom extracts to start you off, maybe the first 3 days. Then switch to plain leaf and taper from there. You see the wonderful thing about kratom is that tolerance doesn't work the same way as it does with regular opiates. You dont need to keep increasing the dose to get the same effects. On the contrary, I have found that I can actually lower my kratom dose and still experience the same pleasurable effects, whereas with regular opiates when you lower your dose you usually experience withdrawals, let alone the same amount of pleasure.

I have used kratom to detox many times and it is amazingly effective. I once detoxed from a serious heroin habit with plain leaf only and I was actually well enough to take the dog for a walk my first day detoxing and after 3 days I pretty much felt normal with just the kratom. Now if you have kratom extracts, its even better. the only thing you'll want to avoid is weak kratom. One time I got stuck with a weak batch of kratom and it didn't work to detox me, I would feel a little relief for a couple of hours when the kratom first hit and then I would be back in wd. But top quality kratom can be surprisingly strong. I am still amazed I was able to detox from the amount of heroin I was doing just using kratom.
 
I take issue with the bolded part of your statement. As someone who has gone through both withdrawals at different times I can tell you without a doubt that Kratom withdrawals are a walk in the park compared to Suboxone.

Yes, I completely agree. Suboxone is the worst withdrawal I have ever experienced. When used for less than two weeks in a taper form, it can be a miracle for quitting opiates, but as a maintenance tool, it is a nightmare to get off of. I am aware kratom, when used for long periods of time, will produce withdrawals that we might as well call opiate withdrawals. But suboxone is no joke. Not easy to quit.
 
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