SA
Bluelight Crew
The UK is considering nationalising some banks and some services and utilities, if all else fails. Hayek is no doubt rolling in his grave.
***US financial crisis/bail-out master thread***
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Infinite Jest
Bluelight Crew
^
They basically have.
Government now has 43% share of Lloyds TSB/HBOS, and a majority stake in Royal Bank of Scotland. Barclays turned down their offer, opting to raise money on the private markets - which is hopefully a sign that they're in good financial shape (and also that they don't want the limits on their pay and stuff...).
As I type the head of RBS has resigned.
BBC is tipping the FTSE to rocket. It opens in a minute.
This is basically the last throw...
They basically have.
Government now has 43% share of Lloyds TSB/HBOS, and a majority stake in Royal Bank of Scotland. Barclays turned down their offer, opting to raise money on the private markets - which is hopefully a sign that they're in good financial shape (and also that they don't want the limits on their pay and stuff...).
As I type the head of RBS has resigned.
BBC is tipping the FTSE to rocket. It opens in a minute.
This is basically the last throw...
SA
Bluelight Crew
I was going to add this audio to the CEP video thread, but it's better suited here. An hour long, fact based, grim synopsis of how we got here, who is to blame and what our options and possible probable outcomes are, going forward.
Bud Burrell
Topic: What's Wrong with This Picture?
Bud Burrell
Topic: What's Wrong with This Picture?
Infinite Jest
Bluelight Crew
FTSE up 8%, Dow up to over 9000 
again. Hopefully things can hold steady.
again. Hopefully things can hold steady.
Ernestrome
Bluelighter
SA said:
Did i find this here or from somewhere else? Either way, it's long but very interesting.
Ernestrome
Bluelighter
Because he's not a fucking shill 
Ernestrome
Bluelighter
BBC's File on four on the financial crisis.
http://downloads.bbc.co.uk/podcasts/radio4/fileon4/fileon4_20081014-1621b.mp3
http://downloads.bbc.co.uk/podcasts/radio4/fileon4/fileon4_20081014-1621b.mp3
B9
Bluelight Crew
Well it seems that there may well be opportunities out there in the future - hopefully for the re-engineering ( did I say re-engineering ? I really meant destruction ) of the systems & values held by our Lords & Masters. Now this is easy for me - I have very little to loose, financially anyway, but what about those of you with a small amount invested in this nonsensical dream - will you keep dreaming that the dream can be rescued, that it can become a concrete reality - again 8) .
I've no doubts that the well educated will be along presently & they will be saying that all that needs done is that greater controls are exercised & systems put in place to "ensure something like this can never happen again" yeah right.
In so long as the value of capital is the bottom line then it can & will happen again.
I'd say invest what you have in something sustainable, your society & real standard of living, not some paper calculation you choose to believe because it tells you what you want to hear, that being that it will be alright.
I've no doubts that the well educated will be along presently & they will be saying that all that needs done is that greater controls are exercised & systems put in place to "ensure something like this can never happen again" yeah right.
In so long as the value of capital is the bottom line then it can & will happen again.
I'd say invest what you have in something sustainable, your society & real standard of living, not some paper calculation you choose to believe because it tells you what you want to hear, that being that it will be alright.
~*geNeRaTiOn E*~
Bluelight Crew
m885
Bluelighter
- Joined
- May 27, 2003
- Messages
- 8,586
neonads said:
JP Morgan is well capitalized. In an environment where a lot of companies made a lot of poor decisions, they made fewer than than others. JP Morgan did extremely well in the fallout of the Long Term Capital Management collapse ten years ago as well. It's a good company.
Infinite Jest
Bluelight Crew
The UK stockmarket is going down as well, and short-selling is still banned here. Bottom line: we are all heading for a recession, so of course the market is going down. Especially as it was at historically very high levels (I saw an argument that it never really came down as far as it should have after the dot com boom/bust). A falling stockmarket and a recession is about the best outcome we could expect, given all the things that could go wrong.
Ernestrome
Bluelighter
Mehm said:
Unfortunately events conspire against you. As vw shares fall because short seller need to cover their positions. Stability is way off.
SA
Bluelight Crew
The N.American market is so corrupt, beyond repair, that it will be a wonder if we ever recover out of this. Well, we will, but we would have already done so a long time ago if the system was straight. People really have no idea how morally bankrupt the system is. The subprime "problem" is really only the surface of the real problem here. The system is corrupt at the core, through and through. Exponentially more money has been allowed to be made off systemic failures, during the past decade, than off systemic successes, to the point where the entire global market system has failed and is really having an impossibly great difficulty trying to get going again. People really have no idea. Billions are still being made daily off keeping the system down. Keeping individual companies down, that is, and, in turn, keeping the system down as a whole as a result.
If the N.American markets do not start enforcing the ban on naked shorting - immediately and severely to the extent of being punishable by life imprisonment, with no exceptions like extradition, because they are in effect destroying countless lives daily - then you can kiss your capitalistic dream life as you know it good bye.
When people start dissecting the event of the current "financial crisis" in earnest, they will likely be shocked to discover how many of the Mega institution failures were caused by the "crisis" and how many were driven into non-existence by fierce, swift, blatant, unpunishable electronic manipulation.
If the N.American markets do not start enforcing the ban on naked shorting - immediately and severely to the extent of being punishable by life imprisonment, with no exceptions like extradition, because they are in effect destroying countless lives daily - then you can kiss your capitalistic dream life as you know it good bye.
When people start dissecting the event of the current "financial crisis" in earnest, they will likely be shocked to discover how many of the Mega institution failures were caused by the "crisis" and how many were driven into non-existence by fierce, swift, blatant, unpunishable electronic manipulation.
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Belisarius
Bluelighter
If one good thing has come out of this financial crisis, it's that I now know to automatically shut out people who start railing about the evils of government intervention and the primacy of laissez-faire capitalism.
Ernestrome
Bluelighter
I think we need to ban trading by people who don't own the property (ie the share etc). No shorting, no options etc. That would go a good way towards encouraging transparency in the system and avoid the problems with naked shorting etc.
Belisarius
Bluelighter
Looks like Congress has nixed the Big Three bailout...all we can do is wait, now.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081120/ap_on_go_co/auto_bailout_what_s_next
And now, for a counterpoint to the pervasive doom and gloom:
Excerpt:
No Auto Bailout? Investors May Just Say 'No Problem'
Cox | 19 Nov 2008 | 04:21 PM ET Text Size If Congress turns its back on the Big Three auto makers—as many expect—investors probably won't drive the stock market off a cliff.
Instead, some market experts see at most a brief selloff once news hits that Ford [F 1.26 -0.42 (-25%) ], General Motors [GM 2.79 -0.30 (-9.71%) ] and Chrysler won't be getting a bailout.
Click here to watch House auto hearing live
Market reaction otherwise could be muted, despite the big scare headlines such a development would generate—and worries among average investors (see poll below).
"The market believes the importance of General Motors and the Big Three to the country at this stage is significantly smaller than what the auto makers are trying to make out," says Jordan Kimmel, a fund manager at Magnet Investing in Randolph, N.J.
"This (bailout) would be throwing good money after bad," Kimmel adds. "And you're looking at a couple of organizations that for years have missed every kind of business clue, and I think that the country is OK with letting somebody fail at this point."
Kimmel says the auto industry would recover as foreign producers like Toyota [TM 59.76 -3.49 (-5.52%) ] and Honda [HMC 19.89 -1.48 (-6.93%) ] open new plants in the US and consumers buy their cars instead. That, in turn, would prop up ancillary businesses, such as suppliers and maintenance shops, that count on the automakers for their survival.
link:
http://www.cnbc.com/id/27803683
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081120/ap_on_go_co/auto_bailout_what_s_next
And now, for a counterpoint to the pervasive doom and gloom:
Excerpt:
No Auto Bailout? Investors May Just Say 'No Problem'
Cox | 19 Nov 2008 | 04:21 PM ET Text Size If Congress turns its back on the Big Three auto makers—as many expect—investors probably won't drive the stock market off a cliff.
Instead, some market experts see at most a brief selloff once news hits that Ford [F 1.26 -0.42 (-25%) ], General Motors [GM 2.79 -0.30 (-9.71%) ] and Chrysler won't be getting a bailout.
Click here to watch House auto hearing live
Market reaction otherwise could be muted, despite the big scare headlines such a development would generate—and worries among average investors (see poll below).
"The market believes the importance of General Motors and the Big Three to the country at this stage is significantly smaller than what the auto makers are trying to make out," says Jordan Kimmel, a fund manager at Magnet Investing in Randolph, N.J.
"This (bailout) would be throwing good money after bad," Kimmel adds. "And you're looking at a couple of organizations that for years have missed every kind of business clue, and I think that the country is OK with letting somebody fail at this point."
Kimmel says the auto industry would recover as foreign producers like Toyota [TM 59.76 -3.49 (-5.52%) ] and Honda [HMC 19.89 -1.48 (-6.93%) ] open new plants in the US and consumers buy their cars instead. That, in turn, would prop up ancillary businesses, such as suppliers and maintenance shops, that count on the automakers for their survival.
link:
http://www.cnbc.com/id/27803683