Harm Reduction Urine tests

[drmichaelimperioli]

My friend went to jail a couple months ago, got bailed out to go to rehab (he couldn't stand the rehab, didn't seem to do anything for him), just finished 30 days, and his trial is still on the way. He's at a sober living house now and likes it a lot more, but he has no intention of staying sober and so he keeps doing whip-its which are so bad for your brain, I can't stand it. Plus they're expensive for a pretty short lasting high, so he's spending a lot. He's a severe alcoholic and usually would only dabble in other things at normal times, but he's doing a LOT of whip its now (he did about 120-150 today, just hanging out with me and meeting with a friend, even in an uber) so anyways since we can't risk anyone else finding out because of his trial and he cannot fail a urine test, is there ANYTHING else he can use that won't show up on urine tests? (Besides kratom, he's tried many times and it hasn't worked). Obviously I want him to get better, but he's facing 5 years if this doesn't work out, so at least for the next 2 weeks before we know his sentence, I want him to cool it on the whip its and REALLY don't want him to get in trouble. We've looked up whether or not ketamine shows up, but we can't get a clear answer. I know that our friend gets tested at her methadone clinic and another friend has been tested at a psych hospital and neither of them check for ketamine, but don't know if his sober living house has better drug tests. Really wish he could just smoke weed, I think he could be content with that, but yeah I'm so afraid he's gonna do something dumb and ruin his life, he's young. So just looking for anything in the meantime. Preferably kind of mild, I'm hoping he'll get more comfortable with sobriety, but, if "mild" isn't possible, then anything honestly.

 

[drmichaelimperioli]

Sorry this is so long lol, no one has to read this part, but I wanna add more in case anyone has other advice for the emotional part of this, I just kinda need to vent. He’s my best friend, we’ve lived together for 3 yrs, even got a dog together, spend every day together, he makes everything more fun, we know each other so well it’s always so comfortable, I’d do anything for him. And the past 2 months have been horrible for both of us, he’s a sweet person, even drunk he’s never violent or angry, and always so creative and fun (drunk or not). He’s like my brother, he’s just too impulsive, sometimes a little selfish and immature (the immaturity is both one of my favorite and least favorite parts of him, same with the impulsiveness), and did something very dumb, so this has been awful for me and for his family and for him. Also he’s gay and jails/prisons around here are rough. Jail was hell for him, it was really hard to hear about that and not be able to do anything to help, he can’t go through that again and neither can I and neither can his family. I’m failing a class now and can’t save my grade because I couldn’t function for awhile and being powerless was hard to accept and my drug use/drinking has gotten even worse than it was before (I’m also an alcoholic and trying to work on it, but this has been a horrible time). So I just need him to be able to get through this mess safely, even if it’s not a legitimate way to go about it. I worry that I’m being an enabler by trying to help him cheat the treatment, I just know that 5 yrs in a rough prison would ruin his life, he’s capable of so much and he’s young and I just want him to come out of this okay. Obviously he was able to get high in jail too, plus was physically assaulted several times in pretty awful ways (even when I was on the phone with him once), so not like it’s a safe place for him to “learn a lesson” or get his sh*t together. So honestly even besides the urine test, ANY advice on how to deal with this or anyone who can relate a little would be helpful, I’ve kinda been losing it over this and have had some relief with rehab and even more with the sober living but still it’s been awful and I’m just praying this trial doesn’t land him in prison. I couldn’t handle that.

 

[Snafu in the Void]

Unfortunately we can't answer drug test related questions, but we can answer the other facets here. I can say, though, that drug court/POs probably do test for PCP/ketamine metabolites.

I'm sorry about your friend. I know you want to help them, but as you understand they have no intentions of staying sober, you need to create some emotional boundaries and expect the worst outcome here.

I'm assuming you are from the US. If kratom doesn't do anything for your friend, I honestly cannot think of anything else that will, which won't also show up on a drug test. There are a few options I can think of, but judging by their level of use and dislike of kratom, it would probably end up doing even more damage or being ineffective.

Whippets aren't really that damaging to the brain at... at least when used responsibly. 100+ per day is quite extreme, though. That much is definitely going to damage the lungs and may damage the brain through hypoxia, aka he's using so much he's not getting enough oxygen.

I assume your friend gets breathalyzed at his sober living?

It's a terrible situation but there might be little you can do for him.

 

[Snafu in the Void]

Sorry this is so long lol, no one has to read this part, but I wanna add more in case anyone has other advice for the emotional part of this, I just kinda need to vent. He’s my best friend, we’ve lived together for 3 yrs, even got a dog together, spend every day together, he makes everything more fun, we know each other so well it’s always so comfortable, I’d do anything for him. And the past 2 months have been horrible for both of us, he’s a sweet person, even drunk he’s never violent or angry, and always so creative and fun (drunk or not). He’s like my brother, he’s just too impulsive, sometimes a little selfish and immature (the immaturity is both one of my favorite and least favorite parts of him, same with the impulsiveness), and did something very dumb, so this has been awful for me and for his family and for him. Also he’s gay and jails/prisons around here are rough. Jail was hell for him, it was really hard to hear about that and not be able to do anything to help, he can’t go through that again and neither can I and neither can his family. I’m failing a class now and can’t save my grade because I couldn’t function for awhile and being powerless was hard to accept and my drug use/drinking has gotten even worse than it was before (I’m also an alcoholic and trying to work on it, but this has been a horrible time). So I just need him to be able to get through this mess safely, even if it’s not a legitimate way to go about it. I worry that I’m being an enabler by trying to help him cheat the treatment, I just know that 5 yrs in a rough prison would ruin his life, he’s capable of so much and he’s young and I just want him to come out of this okay. Obviously he was able to get high in jail too, plus was physically assaulted several times in pretty awful ways (even when I was on the phone with him once), so not like it’s a safe place for him to “learn a lesson” or get his sh*t together. So honestly even besides the urine test, ANY advice on how to deal with this or anyone who can relate a little would be helpful, I’ve kinda been losing it over this and have had some relief with rehab and even more with the sober living but still it’s been awful and I’m just praying this trial doesn’t land him in prison. I couldn’t handle that.

I am really sorry you have to go through this. Addiction/alcoholism is a horrific disease.

If he is not in a place where he wants to be sober, he may have to learn things the hard way.

You need to create some emotional boundaries and prepare yourself for the worst scenario I'm afraid. That's the ugly blunt truth here.

 

[drmichaelimperioli]

I am really sorry you have to go through this. Addiction/alcoholism is a horrific disease.

If he is not in a place where he wants to be sober, he may have to learn things the hard way.

You need to create some emotional blundaries and prepare yourself for the worst scenario I'm afraid. That's the ugly blunt truth here.

Thanks, I know you’re probably right, it’s just been weird and we haven’t had many boundaries (even shared a bed during almost all of the 2020 quarantine and now have bedrooms that share a wall and still have rarely gotten sick of each other). Not romantic in the slightest, just very close friends. So boundaries kinda went out the window awhile ago. I’m already setting some financial boundaries because I definitely wasn’t helping by giving him extra money when he’d run out, but other boundaries are really tough for me in general, especially with someone I know and trust this much (hard to be upset with someone when they’re at least honest about their mistakes), so I’m having a very hard time gauging where some other boundaries may be necessary.

 

[Nurse Ratched]

Yeah, there isn't much that he can really do that's not gonna show up and obviously if he fails his court ordered UA's he goes right back to jail I imagine. Some people just aren't ready to get clean and will push the envelope and eventually end up doing time. Being young and not afraid of the consequences is a big drawback. I mean he's probably afraid of going back to jail if he fails a UA, just not afraid enough to comply with a program. Most young people aren't and never fully realize the consequences until they get much older.

All you can do is support your friend and hope for the best.

As long as the thread doesn't delve anymore into urine tests it can stay open so you can get support for yourself and your friend. But actually UA's ( whether how to pass....or how not to fail ) are prohibited on BL. So if people just want to comment on what your friend can take that won't be detected that's okay but in reality there isn't much ( that's any fun anyway ) that won't show up.

 

[plumbus-nine]

I dunno about the legal situation, let alone that one in the US, but I think you or your friend might want to investigate about legal research chemicals. If he just can't take anything illegal then you have a lot of stuff to choose from, I also think some which won't show up but as many RCs are analogues of controlled substances many will fail a drug test. Where I lived, you could request a GC/MS lab analysis to confirm a positive quick test and the labs should be able to discriminate between analogues. There is also always DXM. Not that I'd recommend doing any drugs in this situation but before he fails due to a relapse out of strong cravings (to what I can certainly relate) it's better to stay legal.

 

[Nurse Ratched]

^ yeah, he might be able to get away with an RC but since we don't know where he lives and we don't know what kind of Judicial restrictions hes under we really can't suggest he take anything really. I mean other than kratom, I can't think of anything that isn't gonna pop on a mass spec UA. I'm sure the tests they are using for a Court order to remain out of jail might be a bit more inclusive than a 6 panel for employment.

I guess nothing we can suggest ( other than stuff like OTC diphenhydramine and dextromethorphan and lame stuff like that ) is really going to be of much value to him. When the law says you have to pass UA's to stay free there just really isn't much you can do. It sucks to have to quit using substances for awhile but the alternative is to go back to jail if you aren't super careful. Whippets may not show up on a UA but if you don't have your own pad and doing it in the privacy of your own home someone in the sober house will get jealous and probably just rat ya out.

It just isn't worth it.

 

[plumbus-nine]

Forgot to add, when he's using such amounts of whippets, he definitely should take a B Vitamine supplement. There is a case of somebody losing the ability to walk from over-use of whippets.

 

[Dreamflyer]

DXM can give a false reading for PCP, so I definitely wouldn't do that one.

 

[falsifiedhypothesi]

I feel for you, sounds like your friend is going to fuck himself over and go back to jail either way. I'd agree with Snafu, you gotta set up boundaries. It might be polarizing but just be straight with him, not a pompous dick but not just standing by while he either wrecks his health, his life, or both by doing massive amounts of nitrous.

Unfortunately if kratom doesn't work then there is no incognito substance that can efficiently skirt the law. I'd suggest maybe he could try kratom extracts like opms, but those are insanely expensive, even more so than smoke shop whip it's.

Also tell him to take some B vitamins like others have said

 

[Keif' Richards]

I know I'm gonna sound like a huge dick here, but finding a drug for this person to use, as all of the others can't, is not going to help them in any way, shape or form. I understand we do things for the people we love that might seem a little crazy or over the top to outsiders. I'm not judging. I'm not a fan of how addicts are treated in this country, especially by the bail/parole industry i.e. I think it's ludicrous that any free American gets returned to physical confinement for using Cannabis. This is especially so considering they could probably show up to their bail hearing totally shit-faced with no consequences.

If the law is on him as you describe, he needs to make a decision. He's either going to have to stop using or face the consequences. Finding him another drug to use will only make things worse for him.

 

[Nurse Ratched]

I know I'm gonna sound like a huge dick here, but finding a drug for this person to use, as all of the others can't, is not going to help them in any way, shape or form. I understand we do things for the people we love that might seem a little crazy or over the top to outsiders. I'm not judging. I'm not a fan of how addicts are treated in this country, especially by the bail/parole industry i.e. I think it's ludicrous that any free American gets returned to physical confinement for using Cannabis. This is especially so considering they could probably show up to their bail hearing totally shit-faced with no consequences.

If the law is on him as you describe, he needs to make a decision. He's either going to have to stop using or face the consequences. Finding him another drug to use will only make things worse for him.

And with that excellent post and advice I am going to close this thread.