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Opioids Ultram and PEA: Any Ideas????

P

pharmhack

Greenlighter
Joined
Mar 20, 2013
Messages
6
Hopefully I'm posting in the right area:

Any Ideas?


I had two weird situations that maybe someone can shed a light on. Here they are:

SITUATION ONE:

Some time ago I had a really bad Ultram addiction. For years I was on the cycle of getting addicted, and then suffering through withdrawals while working my forty hour a week job. It was hell. Anyway, I usually avoided energy drinks because for some reason they made the withdrawals worse.

I took a gamble one day, and bought an energy drink with PEA and beta alanine in it. On a scale of 1 to 10, my withdrawals always being a 9 or 10, I was at a 3 all day. The next time I withdrew from Ultram and used that energy drink for the entire time I hardly noticed the withdrawals. Could it be because the PEA was releasing norephenephrine and dopamine which was what the Ultram was doing in a roundabout way by inhibiting NE uptake, and stimulating dopamine release via the opiate receptors?

SITUATION TWO:

My wife has been on Adderall for a few months at 40mg or more a day. She ran out of her Addy with a week more until she could refill her script. I gave her some Ultrams to keep her from being depressed. She didn't have any depression, but she still having restlessness, and still wouldn't stop moving around. I told her to try some pure PEA that I had bought. She tried it and 20 minutes later her restlessness was gone. Could this be due to PEA acting similar to an amphetamine? Or do you think that and the Ultram played into it?
 
could this be due to PEA acting similar to an amphetamine
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unless you took literally 500mg+, no, it's likely other stuff in your energy drink. pea is destroyed really effectively in the gut and blood and that small portion that is absorbed is totally eliminated within about 20 minutes.
 
That's what I was thinking. The PEA in the drink was very small. Small enough that I didn't even feel the effects that I would had I taken it separately. Maybe it was the beta alanine in the drink? As far as my wife goes could her body be "fooled" into thinking that the PEA was amphetamine?
 
It's likely placebo.

As far as my wife goes could her body be "fooled" into thinking that the PEA was amphetamine?
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Only psychologically. You can't change the chemical nature of PEA, otherwise it isn't PEA anymore!
 
I doubt it's placebo since PEA is similar in its actions to amphetamine. It is rapidly metabolized by MAO-B, but that doesn't mean it does so before you feel its effects.
 
pharmhack said:
That's what I was thinking. The PEA in the drink was very small. Small enough that I didn't even feel the effects that I would had I taken it separately. Maybe it was the beta alanine in the drink? As far as my wife goes could her body be "fooled" into thinking that the PEA was amphetamine?
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I think the beta-alanine could have an effect, I know someone who takes carnosine (for which beta-alanine is a precursor) and it makes him noticeably more stimulated/energetic and in a better mood. What else was in the energy drink?

pharmhack said:
I doubt it's placebo since PEA is similar in its actions to amphetamine. It is rapidly metabolized by MAO-B, but that doesn't mean it does so before you feel its effects.
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PEA is a stimulant-like substance naturally produced in the body, and it has stimulant effects when, say, injected in large doses in rats, but the key issue is whether taking PEA orally actually increases PEA levels in the brain and triggers such effects. PEA is very quickly broken down by MAO. A low oral dose should not have a perceptible psychoactive effect without taking a MAOI concurrently. Theoretically if a person took enough PEA that there was not enough MAO to convert it all, then you should be able to get effects from it. I have heard of many people saying they experienced amphetamine-like effects from high oral doses. How much did your wife take?
 
I don't remember the exact dose she took, but I took the same amount. It came from a 100 gram bottle, and we took about half a teaspoon. For me the reaction was intense. I felt a rush of euphoria, and my heart rate went up to around 180 beats. My skin was red and I started to get a little scared. I had some Clonodine so I took that in case my blood pressure was really high.

After 20 minutes the effect wouldn't stop so I took a Risperdone because I suspected that once I lowered my DA levels that NE would drop as well. After 20 minutes the Risperdone kicked in, and my heart went back to normal. I had done that amount once without the Risperdone, and it was 45 minutes into it and my heart rate still wouldn't go down. The Risperdone was a guess on my part, and was something that my wife had left over when she had seen the PDoc half a year before. (interestingly enough if I take too much Adderall in the day Riseprdone seems to counteract it, and allows me to sleep. One time I just took 8 Benadryls and still couldn't sleep! So there's another reason to keep the Risperdone around)

I never throw out any meds because you never know when you'll need them again.

Now the energy drink was mine, and was taken when I was withdrawing from Ultram. PEA was in that but in a very small quantity. It also had beta alanine in it, acetyl-l-tyrosine, and yohimbine. This isn't a plug for the drink, but it was one of those Redlines you can find at the gas station.

One time I was withdrawing and I drank either a Redbull or a Monster to boost my energy up. I think it was a Monster. I don't know if it was the glucoronolactone in the drink or what, but it made the withdrawls worse! I had to work that day, and it was so bad that I told my wife if I had another day like that one I would kill myself. I really meant it. I can't describe to you how bad I felt. It was as if all my energy was gone, but my anxiety was through the roof. I had withdrawn with huge amounts of caffeine before, and never had that result.
 
I've found that PEA isn't very forgiving. You can take quite a bit of it, and not feel a thing. Then there's a dose that if you go over just a little you get the rush, but you get an elevated heart rate as well. It's difficult to find the sweet spot with it. If you take Deprenyl before then the dose you need to get the rush is lower, and lasts longer. But if you go too far above that dose with the Deprenyl you're in a world of trouble. Whenever I need a boost of energy I take some in my water. It boosts me up a little so I can get motivated to work.

For me though there's nothing like Ultram. I've take Percoset, Vicodin, Darvoset, Morphine, and other opiates, but Ultram is the best for me.
 
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