Tussionex and citric acid

[cheddar]

Well, cool! It appears we've had a productive thread.
Thanks guys. Look forward to working with you again

 

[dokomo]

As I said before the LD50 is approx 306 mg/kg from what I've read.
79mg spread throughout a normal human body is a far cry from that

You really shouldn't be throwing around an LD50 as if its God's honest medical truth. The fact is, LD50 represents the amount of a substance that it takes to kill 50% of the tested population (which are animals, NOT humans.) It should only be used as a rough guide when trying to compare that to human doses.

For example - using the LD50 for acetaminophen and applying that to humans says that it would take 50,000mg of it to kill 50% of the people tested, which is totally untrue (it takes way less than that.)

1/3 of an 8 oz bottle of tussionex IS too much as far as chlorpheniramine is concerned. The generally accepted "safe" maximum is 24mg over 24 hours, any more than this puts you at risk. I'm not saying you take 25mg and BAM you're dead, just that going over this limit has the potential to cause bodily harm, and even death from overdose.

edit -

See "Table 1: Toxicity Classes: Hodge and Sterner Scale" for more information on this.

http://www.ccohs.ca/oshanswers/chemicals/ld50.html#_1_9

 

[cheddar]

You really shouldn't be throwing around an LD50 as if its God's honest medical truth. The fact is, LD50 represents the amount of a substance that it takes to kill 50% of the tested population (which are animals, NOT humans.) It should only be used as a rough guide when trying to compare that to human doses.

For example - using the LD50 for acetaminophen and applying that to humans says that it would take 50,000mg of it to kill 50% of the people tested, which is totally untrue (it takes way less than that.)

1/3 of an 8 oz bottle of tussionex IS too much as far as chlorpheniramine is concerned. The generally accepted "safe" maximum is 24mg over 24 hours, any more than this puts you at risk. I'm not saying you take 25mg and BAM you're dead, just that going over this limit has the potential to cause bodily harm, and even death from overdose.

I wasn't tossing it around as some sort of truth. I'm well aware of what LD50 means. I'm basing it off what I've read in the medical literature. I was just giving my unqualified opinion based on the research I've done.
I never said anything about it being truth or not. I always added a qualifier; "from what i've read", and if i'm not a doctor, what i've read as far as overdosing shouldn't mean shit to anyone if they take the health of their organs seriously.

 

[dokomo]

I didn't say what you said was wrong, rather it is misleading to those who do not fully understand what an LD50 is, which is a lot of people. Qualifiers are good for protecting one's self from liability, but not that great when someone is about to take a medication and is quickly browsing through threads to find a safe dosage.

The human dosage is nowhere near the LD50, so if the LD50 is pointless in determining safe dosage, why even post it?

 

[cheddar]

I didn't say what you said was wrong, rather it is misleading to those who do not fully understand what an LD50 is, which is a lot of people. Qualifiers are good for protecting one's self from liability, but not that great when someone is about to take a medication and is quickly browsing through threads to find a safe dosage.

The human dosage is nowhere near the LD50, so if the LD50 is pointless in determining safe dosage, why even post it?

He asked?

Lets not get into a debate over this. I asked a question, I got an answer. He asked a question, he got an answer.
I'm willing to leave it at that. Please feel free to explain to everyone coming into this thread what an LD50 actually is.
But with my hypothesis put into theoretical practice, my work in this thread is done.
Have a nice night

 

[dokomo]

He asked?

Lets not get into a debate over this. I asked a question, I got an answer. He asked a question, he got an answer.
I'm willing to leave it at that. Please feel free to explain to everyone coming into this thread what an LD50 actually is.
But with my hypothesis put into theoretical practice, my work in this thread is done.
Have a nice night

There isn't anything to even debate about--he never asked about the LD50 (his question seemed to hint that he wondered if he took too much, which was the case. The whole point of this place is harm reduction, so I feel that being very clear about what safe dosages are is central to that goal.

 

[Moral Decay]

i feel i gleaned important information from both posts. As it is i will not be consuming more then 3tsps in a 24 hour period. For those who have taken larger doses, i suppose they were lucky it didn't kill them, or at least damage their bodies in some way.

1/3 of the bottle seems really high. I would be worried about the other ingredients besides the main active ingredient in any drug prescribed in the US at those doses. Almost all of the fun prescriptions are getting some sort of other less desirable additives in them t prevent abuse if by no other means then fear of overdose with a shitty drug. Like with vicodins having so much apap in them or all the antihistamines they put in the syrups.

 

[endEMBEDA]

I'm very experienced with tussionex. As far as I know and have read, there isn't a good method to extract hydrocodone from the preparation.

What you described sounds alot like tussionex's normal activity. For many people, the chlorpheniramine strongly potentiates the hydrocodone.

Chlorpheniramine is really dangerous stuff, you shouldn't take more than 24mg of it in a 24 hour period. That is 3tsp or 1 tbsp worth of tussionex. Otherwise it can cause heart problems and even death (thats the ingredient that was killing people trying to get high on the DXM in coricidin.)

I think you might be mistaken a bit. As far as I know, there are few to none common medicines that contain chlorpheniramine. The overdoses and what not with the DXM syrup were caused by APAP or pseudoephedrine or both as far as I know.

I can also say that taking more than 1 tablespoon wont kill you; the stuff is practically OTC; docs love it cuz its still patent and because of it's supposed lack of abuse potential; which I believe is there because 99% of people dont bust out the chemistry set for cough medicine. my 2 cents. cheers.

 

[dokomo]

I think you might be mistaken a bit. As far as I know, there are few to none common medicines that contain chlorpheniramine. The overdoses and what not with the DXM syrup were caused by APAP or pseudoephedrine or both as far as I know.

I can also say that taking more than 1 tablespoon wont kill you; the stuff is practically OTC; docs love it cuz its still patent and because of it's supposed lack of abuse potential; which I believe is there because 99% of people dont bust out the chemistry set for cough medicine. my 2 cents. cheers.

Chlorpheniramine is in a TON of common medications, such as:

Generic Name: chlorpheniramine (KLOR fen IR a meen)
Brand names: AHist, Aller-Chlor, Allergy Relief, C.P.M., Chlo-Amine, Chlor-Al Rel, Chlor-Mal, Chlor-Phen, Chlor-Phenit, Chlor-Trimeton, Chlor-Trimeton Allergy SR, Chlorphen, ChlorTan, Ed Chlor-Tan, Ed ChlorPed, PediaTan, Ridramin, TanaHist-PD, Triaminic Allergy, Wal-finate, Efidac-24 Chlorpheniramine, QDALL AR, P-Tann, Chlorpheniramine (Allergy), Pediox-S

The overdoses were definitely not caused by APAP or pseudoephedrine, they occurred most commonly in situations where people were taking CCCs with dextromethorphan and chlorpheniramine. The DXM does exacerbate the danger of chlorpheniramine because they use the same liver enzymes, but it is dangerous in and of itself. A simple examination of the drug facts makes this clear.

 

[Moral Decay]

The overdoses were definitely not caused by APAP or pseudoephedrine, they occurred most commonly in situations where people were taking CCCs with dextromethorphan and chlorpheniramine. The DXM does exacerbate the danger of chlorpheniramine because they use the same liver enzymes, but it is dangerous in and of itself. A simple examination of the drug facts makes this clear.

+1 you are absolutely correct sir. I almost wish this site had a reputation system, you should win points for this correction of the other poster. He is spreading misinformation, thank you for the clarification.