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Today Tonight Tue 9th - Ecstacy

Ticktock: Hmmm, all those horror stories over there in ED, all those horror stories where dickheads who eat 5 pills a day 3 days a week (no exaggeration) then complain that they can't think straight or remember anything and that X has fucked up their life.

Cop out's who blame the drug not the person, like I've said so many times in ED, drugs can't make you take them, and blaming a drug for fucking up your life is like blaming a gun for shooting someone.

The crux of the matter is this; most of us are pissed off not because TT has said they're are dangers in taking X, we all fucking know that and it's thanks to sites like BL that have pointed out safer ways of doing things, what most of us are pissed about is that TT has Blatantly bullshat on national TV about what's in X and how X can lead to heavier harder drug use instead of saying, X is dangerous, but if you take these pro-active measures (ie test kits) then you can minimize the risks, and these risks are abc and xyz.

Suddenly the above pro-active approach doesn't sound anywhere near as interesting as saying xtc, it can and will kill you and if it doesn't do that, it'll have a fucken good go and lead you down the path to drug induced destitution.
 
Tick-tock : Those symptoms you suffer from seem to be a product of various neuroses and psychosis. I suggest you see a doctor or therapist immediately. MDMA can unlock a lot of pent up psychic energy. If the symptoms persist over a long period of time, even with the use of various numbing agents such as opiates or SSRI's, the symptoms are most definetly Psycho-somatic.

They could be also unresolved psychic conflicts that you may to work to integrate.

Physiologically MDMA is known to reduce SerT levels for a prolonged time, however there a great number of people who did ingest MDMA in the early eighties that are fine on a physiological and psychological level. It is unfortunate that you blame a simple Molecule for all your problems, unfortunate because if only life was so simple, that we could all blame our problems on something so small. Because if it was the case, then by removing this small thing from our world, then all of our problems will be solved. This is not a realistic approach to the science and rational of psychoactive substances and psychological symptamology...
 
Leprechaun: Sorry to disappoint you mate, but I suffer from no psychosis. I am currently seeing a psychologist and a psychiatrist, both very good professionals that have looked at my work/study history and drug history and concluded that I suffer from severe anxiety that the ecstasy has exacerbated. I do see things that are not there, but they are not living breathing hallucinations that I believe, they are patterns and bright visuals. The frustrating thing is I am aware that what I am seeing shouldn't be there and that they are mere hallucinations hence me being a sufferer of HPPD (ecstasy induced. trust me, I and the doctors know this and I'm not the only one that ecstasy has produced these problems for)

Before I tried ecstasy I had none of these symptoms. I led a normal life and had a pretty damn good memory. Actually, I was a normal functional human being. I'll say it again, the ecstasy brought something out in me. It might not happen to you or the others in this thread but the fact of the matter is it's a possibility that should not be ignored. Just like with driving comes the possibility of getting into an accident.

read the following links about all of the possible negative after effects that ecstasy can produce:
http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=198702&highlight=ecstasy
http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=57642&highlight=ecstasy
http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=57374&highlight=ecstasy
http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=73777&highlight=ecstasy
http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=216215&r=10
http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=215580&r=38
http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=122938&highlight=depersonalization
http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=84453&highlight=depersonalization
http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=104364&highlight=derealisation
http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=85114&highlight=derealisation
http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=72157&highlight=derealisation
8(


I will continue to blame the drug that I NEVER abused. I only took it once in a while. and after reading all of the glorifying that goes on, on sites like this and erowid eg: "ecstasy gave me insight to life, ecstasy brought me closer to people, etc etc." why blame me? I only did this drug under 10 times and didn't go on silly binges.

Some people are fine after taking ecstasy for a prolongued period of time, but you can't ignore the fact that ecstasy COULD fuck you up. Why ignore it? I know why, because you don't want to hear it that's why.

I am completely aware that drugs are not conscious, living things. and I will say it again, not everyone suffers negative after effects from taking drugs. But why gamble your life just to find out? I did and I tell you what I fucking regret it.

Oh and one other thing, read through that whole list of impurites and do a bit of research on them (I got the list from Bilz0r) I'm sure you'll find some rather interesting information about how toxic those chemicals really are.

I quote fastandbulbous regarding one of those chemicals found in the list. "The only one that rings alarm bells is 1,2-dimethyl-3-phenylaziridine (it's a condensation by product of the red phosphorus/iodine reduction of ephedrine to methamphetamine). It's generally toxic, but especially so to the kidneys, as well as being a DNA alkylator - basically a good enough reason in itself to avoid illictly produced methamphetamine.


Responsible for at least one hospitalization in the UK (somebody making their own meth and getting it badly wrong), resulting in an addition to the list of people requiring kidney transplants.


Very ugly indeed"

The shit is not just found in meth, but one among many other byproducts found in mdma.
Yeah, I'm sure I've already made quite a few enemies by typing the last few posts (goes to show how biased this site is then, eh?) but if I have made people at least think twice before doing ecstasy and more aware of what COULD happen. Then good, I feel my life isn't completely useless.8(
 
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I welcome a break from the frequent monotony of many threads on this site about popular misrepresentation of MDMA and other drugs. It is refreshing to see an alternative view offered by someone with their own experience to speak of, rather than consistent reinforcement of one repetitive point after another. it's pretty interesting to see how defensive some people become - they seem to shift from MDMA users to strong MDMA proponents, and i believe there is no need for that.

if someone relays their own negative personal experience with a certain drug, or makes evidence-based criticisms of the drug, this does not constitute a personal attack on satisfied users of the drug, and perceiving it as such will just turn a discussion into a grumpfest.

i find this worrying:

Dude, I test my pills so don't preach to me about what is in them. Your PMA comment is completley irrelevant, just like most of the TT report.

attitudes like that add credibility to the claim that reagent pill-testing is not effective harm-reduction because it gives users a false sense of confidence. although my bias is definitely for reagent testing by Enlighten and others, i can understand the claims of the medical community who oppose testing for this very reason. e.g., ticktock posted a list of impurities in illicit MDMA that have been uncovered from analysed samples - people with some degree of scientific knowledge will understand that impurities pose an entirely different problem to consumers of illicit tablets than dangerous drugs such as PMA do. however, the layman will often be oblivious to the dangers associated with frequent exposure to these many varied compounds that won't cause you to drop dead on the dancefloor.

I have read many times posts by phase_dancer where he makes the totally legitimate claim that consistent exposure to contaminant-amounts of these impurities can often pose far more of a health risk than the active compounds themselves. see, people may not know that even if a pill scraping tests positive to the presence of MDMA, the trace impurities could still definitely be present, and without knowing of this possible hazard, people could wrap themselves up in the blanket of harm-reduction and assume that their test result puts them out of danger. combine that with someone who has easy access to positive-testing pills, and frequent use could very well ensue - the cumulative toxic effect of unknown impurities on the organs of the body is therefore a potential outcome of using illicit pills that test-kits won't protect you from.

but test-kits are certainly not to blame either, and (without knowing of any firm evidence to support me yet) their benefits probably outweigh any false confidence given to users, especially in combination with other HR strategies. the worst enemy of someone who munches enough pills with enough frequency to suffer a toxic effect from contaminants is their own stupidity, and perhaps bad fortune too. usually education will help to overcome one's ignorance or stupidity to some extent, but a stubborn approach to the many negative possibilities that could arise from using illicit products is a good way to have something you enjoy backfire on you.


ticktock, i welcome the insight you've offered us regarding your personal experience with MDMA, and i wouldn't challenge your observation regarding the correlation between your MDMA use and subsequent negative health consequences. i was aware of the possibility of negative outcomes before i tried MDMA, but i tried it anyway, and it worked out for me. divulging true and accurate information, both good and bad, is essential to allow people seeking harm reduction info from this site to make a genuinely balanced decision - because being aware of all the possibilities and still choosing to experiment with a drug means that one shoulders the consequences themselves and does not try to deflect criticism toward the substance or information sources, rather than the decision maker - ie. themselves.

Cop out's who blame the drug not the person, like I've said so many times in ED, drugs can't make you take them, and blaming a drug for fucking up your life is like blaming a gun for shooting someone.

telling people about your own shit time with a drug is not blaming a drug for anything other than inducing an adverse reaction, and publicising an adverse reaction to a substance is not something that should be met with scorn from users who are lucky enough to enjoy a drug's benefits with minimal harm. i have not seen a claim in this thread that MDMA made a user take it - all i have seen is an alternative perspective on a drug from someone who had a different experience on it than most other people do. having said that, i think your statement was just referring to alot of the blame drugs get in general, usually from people who abuse the drug - with the abuse being the cause of the fucked up life, rather than sensible use of the drug where the person was an unwitting victim. in that regard i agree with you.
 
Heya Tick-tock, thanks for the reply man. :)

I don't see how 1,2-dimethyl-3-phenylaziridine could be a by product of MDMA synthesis, unless it was mixed up in cook ware that was used for Meth-amphetamine synthesis. Primarily that the routes to get to Meth, and MDMA are completetly different with different starting points. Unless you are aware of a route that involves 1,2-dimethyl-3-phenylaziridine. I suspect that where you got your information from is not the most respectable. Many of the by product you noted are not in anyway part of the reaction process to get to MDMA. Even though there are a number of starting points.

Regarding the symptamology. My primary concern is that any psychoactive substance and or intense experience can produce the physiological effects you describe. Physiological in the sense that the symptoms can be outline on a reduced neuro-biological level. HOWEVER - I beg you to consider the fine line between Psychological trauma and phisiological effect. If your symptoms are now apparent and you have no history of such symptoms, I would lean towards it being a psychological manifestation. Perhaps some buried trauma or other such psychological effect. I just don't see your symptoms being a physiological response, that is all.

I can see you are trying to solve your problems, if they preventing you from functioning day to day, then yes, there problems are real and troubling. Yes, MDMA has physiological effects that can be seen as changing the structure of the brain, but even this is only after long term and high dose use, which is another reason I would say your symptoms are psychological.

Look, I don't know if I am right or wrong, but don't be too certain that it all boils down to the fact that MDMA damaged neurons in your brain and now you have resulting symptoms.

My best wishes to you. :)
 
TickTock. Your experience sounds terrible mate and im with you in that people on this forum are too quick to judge. Unfortunately MDMA production is NEVER going to stop. Wherever there is high demand for a highly profitable product then there will always be some form of supply. Take that point into consideration. You might be able to influence some people who hear your story take notice and stop their drug taking practices but there will still be a proportion of the community who will take drugs.

In a perfect world MDMA would be a legal substance manufactured by a few Pharmacuetical companies in perfect competition, with a govt. licence. The product goes through rigirous testing to make sure that the only active ingredient is pure MDMA, sold in clearly labelled packets. Those who want to take it can do so, just as those who want to drink, smoke or eat McDonalds can. None of them are healthy for us but its a PERSONAL CHOICE and we derive a certain amount of pleasure from doing so. Unfortunately i can't see this happening.

So what can we do for these people who are going to ignore every warning no matter where it comes from?


I believe we must do what is in our best interests to follow the Harm Minimisation path. Today Tonight have clearly reported on an outdated story full of lies (even if there may be some truth in it). It is our responsibility as members of of this Bluelight community to debunk the myths, lies and stories. Hence why there was such a backlash when you first posted. I hope that you can understand where i'm coming from because i certainly understand where you're coming from and i think it is simply just a matter of two different minds of thought.

To the other members of this forum. Can we please stop flaming people for having a different view (PLUR anyone?). If they have incorrect information then please it is your resposibility to inform them otherwise in a nice respectful way with evidence as a back up.

comments will be appreciated.

fuck in heaven
 
Ecstacy was a god send for me, it let me escape my god awful social phobia and totally isolated life so that now, 2 years later, instead of having 3 friends in my phone I can call on a friday night I have about 40.

I don't take it anymore cos it makes me too erratic and I can't deal with the comedowns but I thank fuck I found it
 
crow011 said:
they should show "shonky lebanese bricklayers ripping off the aussie battler while making Ecstasy in home-made labs" . . . that would be a ratings winner for TODAY TONIGHT, as it covers pretty much every story they do . . .

FUCKING GOLD!!!!! :D

I wish we could clean up Australia and organise a massive Today Tonight fan meeting. Everyone who goes get's locked away to do reasearch on the phoney stories they portray. Only when they say the magic word's 'it's full of fucking lies and blatently bias' are they let go.

Who's with me to improve the country?
 
ticktock said:
Yeah, I'm sure I've already made quite a few enemies by typing the last few posts (goes to show how biased this site is then, eh?) but if I have made people at least think twice before doing ecstasy and more aware of what COULD happen. Then good, I feel my life isn't completely useless.8(
Hey man, I don't think anyone here posted with the purpose of making an enemy out of you, or to put you down. MDMA has changed my life for the better, and no one doubts that MDMA has changed your life for the worst, no one else knows you better than you.

I don't feel that this site is biased, there are many members here who share different opinions. We just like to post our experiences too.
 
Just on a Today Tonight related rant:

Did anyone catch Media Watch this week - I'm not sure when it was, but TT ran a program on Idol and had asked singer Renee Geyer to comment. She refused to have anything to do with the show, so they cut an answer from her appearance on Andrew Denton's Enough Rope and made it sound as though she was talking about the current program on TT.

Also heard a guy ring up talk back about the program on Islamic youths on TT earlier this week. He was an independent doco maker (or something along those lines), and TT approached him to use some of his interview footage of young Muslims in their program. When it got to the program, TT had chopped out all the doco makers questions, and fed in their own questions, cutting footage of the answers to suit themselves.

This show is a fucking disgrace, seriously.


Faustus - have you had any further developments in your contact with them??
 
It is now Friday and not one call back. I left a message with mulitple people as well as emails. The researcher I was talking to never called me back and he has done before so I just feel the way they handle these situations is just as they have done now... Ignore it.

The only complaints they want and in writing. WTF.. Australian Broadcasting Authority said they wanted complaints in writing after contacting the station in question in writing. Again let me say WTF
 
^ good on you for trying Faustus.

And may I also retort to ticktock's admirers; I see his point also, but perhaps he would have gotten a better reception if he hadn't been a complete ass about it. See his posting history for further examples of his belligerent attitude.
 
^this, much like your post is a little OT, so please forgive me for this. But I only give someone a hard time where its deserved. if you study any of my more hostile posts carefully, it does have good reasoning behind it.
 
ticktock,

Your posts have all been well and truly worth while to read. I have always been aware of the risks involved with any drug and their inherent risks to cause a drug induced mental illness. I also deeply sympathise with you and wish you all the best at a recovery.

I will continue to blame the drug that I NEVER abused. I only took it once in a while. and after reading all of the glorifying that goes on, on sites like this and erowid eg: "ecstasy gave me insight to life, ecstasy brought me closer to people, etc etc." why blame me? I only did this drug under 10 times and didn't go on silly binges.


Your spot on here and i would like to reinforce your point that this site does sit in a position of bias when it comes to information regarding drugs. I dont believe that the moderators are the main cause of this at all, infact their information is normally well informed and at least more accurate than any you would get from an organisation or media outlet that was attempted to add terror to the minds of the non drug taking public either to stop them trying drugs or to sell stories. I think the majority of the bluelight posting public are extremely bias and in favour of drugs to the point that i have recently started to realise they are not much different to the media or government when it comes to supporting their side of the argument.

I still take drugs and have developed what i consider to be a serious problem, however i have not let my life slide around it and i am still able to say that my life is alot more interesting now than before i started. Let me say though, I am and have been for some time very close to crossing that fine line that would take away all i have gained. I am preparing myself to tackle my problem head on and i am hoping that when the time comes i have the mental strength in me to break this habit.

Mental illness does affect 1 in 5 people and i am very aware that a great number of those cases are of the drug induced nature. There is also another point to make here and that is that the medical field is very reluctant to diagnose anyone under 17/18 with a mental illness and this is because they try not to label young people in their formative years (ofcourse ADD/ADHD and depression and some others are diagnosed). There are many young people in this country experimenting with drugs younger and younger and i shudder to think what ramifications this is going to have on society a few years from now. I am a youth worker and i work in particular with young people who chrome and smoke weed often. They range in age from 12-17 and in my opinion have got many mental health issues to deal with, some of these issues are from their past but some are from the drugs making those problems worse. Drugs dont cause everyone to have problems as you said but many many people have pre-dispositions that lay dormant and it truly is a game of russian roulette.

One last point to make is that i believe many people on this board who are so pro drugs are still in a very early stage of their drug taking careers if you can call it that. I and many people i know used to preach all positives. Eventually people slowly learn that its not all fine and dandy and there is a deep dark side to it all too and that is why they are illegal as it is the governments role to ensure the populations safety and they would be booted out of government if they didnt. I am a firm believer in peoples free choice to do what they please, dont get me wrong. I just dont think drug reform is as easy as making these things available publicly. I favour massive scale harm minimisation reform, once i have seen that happen i think it will then be time to try and find a solution to the social problem that is drugs and more so drug related crime.


Anyway in the meantime i hope all the people who are still in the glory days of only gaining positives from their drug taking can realise when they are on a winner and take a step back while they still have the ability to feel genuinely happy without drugs, let alone remember what its like. I know i wish i had recognised that point. I do believe many people will continue taking MDMA into even their 40's as a recreational thing and i believe that is great, i know I hope i will be having the kids taken by their grandparents for a weekend ever now and then, I just hope that it is just every now and then.

Rant off........


Zaki
 
Tick tock and others :

Just remember, even legal drugs supplied by the people you are getting help from can have very bad side effects on your body and mind.

It would be interesting to find what number of people suffer bad side affects from legal drugs and compare that to the use of MDMA and its bad side affects.

More people use MDMA on weekends with far less trouble than most other drugs. The fact you were affected badly is all just in the numbers. You could have had prozac and made you crazy if you were in the unlucky numbers. But then you dont see TT reporting on legal drugs and what they could do to you.
 
^^ thats my thoughts too. I have no qualms in shows like TT showing the "evil side" of ecstasy, but in comparison to everything else.....in comparison to the not so evil side, and in comparison to alcohol, and in comparison to legal drugs/medications. I believe in giving people ALL sides of the story for them to make their own informed opinions and when it comes to drugs like ecstasy, decide to take or not to take based on ALL the facts. Not just the facts the pro-users make, and not just the facts TT makes.
 
If only they had the evil side of Asprin show. Listing the small children of rich white families killed by this menace.
 
Faustus said:
It is now Friday and not one call back. I left a message with mulitple people as well as emails. The researcher I was talking to never called me back and he has done before so I just feel the way they handle these situations is just as they have done now... Ignore it.

The only complaints they want and in writing. WTF.. Australian Broadcasting Authority said they wanted complaints in writing after contacting the station in question in writing. Again let me say WTF

sorry just really curious as to whether you had any reply from them yet? i know people from diff forums have sent in handwritten and email complaints to TT and Herald Sun after alot of their raver/drug abuse articles lately...

IF they got a reply back it was along lines of 'No comment'...'We cannot release info. concerning our sources but we can assure you they are 100 % accurate'
best 1 yet:

'We do not have the time or resources to currently commit to such a proposal'
- offers to get a different perspective...actually touring clubs and talking to people
 
I was called back and given the same spiel about all their information is 100% accurate and I was told if I had a complaint to call back the day after. They would not give me any information apart from that incase I was from a competing network.

We chatted for about 10 mins of me getting no where and so I said Ok thanks and I will call you tomorrow after the show has aired. Well thats the last of it really. No answered calls or emails.

Basically ACA and TT can say any amount of shit they like about most things and never back it up
 
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