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Opinion To Be or Not To Be (An Abortion Thread)

If only people were as concerned with others when it comes to more general issues.

I understand the issues with this viewpoint but it is striking that we seemingly care so much, while still having become so desensitized to say war, hunger and poverty.
 
Buzz Lightbeer said:
If only people were as concerned with others when it comes to more general issues.

I understand the issues with this viewpoint but it is striking that we seemingly care so much, while still having become so desensitized to say war, hunger and poverty.
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This argument really falls flat on its face, for one simple reason.

If you follow a pro life belief that abortion is killing a valid human life, this IS one of those big general issues.

In fact it is far higher in its death rate than many wars. And that's in spite of abortion rates declining for decades now.

So, no, this is just another circular argument. Saying essentially "it's a shame you don't care about something that kills lots of people, because in my opinion this doesn't kill lots of people".

You can have that opinion, but that opinion IS what we're debating so there's no point in using it as an argument in the debate as well.
 
JessFR said:
This argument really falls flat on its face, for one simple reason.

If you follow a pro life belief that abortion is killing a valid human life, this IS one of those bit general issues.

In fact is far higher than many wars. And that's in spite of abortions for decades now.

So, no, this just another circular argument. Saying essentially "it's a shame you don't care about something that kills lots of people, because in my opinion this doesn't kill lots of people".

You can have that opinion, but that opinion IS what we're debating so there's no point in using it as an argument in the debate as well.
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I know I know, that's why I said I understood the issues with it. But it's something worth pointing out, it even goes both ways as you said, both pro-life and pro-choice people argue in favor of less human suffering.
 
It is always the end-all dead-all argument, often a moot point, but seldom not worth making. In a way being pro-life is some sort of social protest no? Battling for the most basic right, the right to live, includes strongly condemning e.g. economic injustices, bombings and sanctions, otherwise it seems quite hypocritical. Moving away from the easy stance "it's not my problem" is commendable but it loses it strength when only applied to once specific issue.

I'm not saying that an ultimate moral high ground as such will change anything, but it will make the abortion point much stronger, until then, the pro-lifers will always be somewhat patronized.
 
Well I tend to agree but being here arguing abortion for the pro life side doesn't imply that any of us don't take other social problems seriously.

Anyone familiar with my posting here I suspect would recognize that I actually bitch far more about some other social issues.
 
MsDiz said:
In 2015 300,000 women died due to pregnancy/childbirth.
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Dear God... we have a pregnancy crisis!!! Immediately ban all pregnancies' unless you receive them weekly from your MMT clinic... wait, umm, wrong topic.

Now I'm just being silly, I'll step out.

Opioid Crisis MY ASS
 
Male Seals often rape penguins, and it usually kills the penguin. :(
There is definitely some sexual aggression there.
 
JessFR said:
Well I tend to agree but being here arguing abortion for the pro life side doesn't imply that any of us don't take other social problems seriously.

Anyone familiar with my posting here I suspect would recognize that I actually bitch far more about some other social issues.
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Except strong economic sanctions against Venezuela and Syria then =D =D
Feel free to ignore that one. I'm not saying you don't, I enjoy reading you battling it out here and everywhere, I'm just insinuating most pro-lifers don't. Which isn't a crime or anything, probably quite logical, I'll just never be able to look beyond the hypocrisy of the message. In Europe the anti-abortion stance is mostly pushed by Christian and right wing parties. Well it just so happens that the latter doesn't seem to regard all life as equal at all by their actions, which is the absolute main driving point of pro-life (all life is equal, whether it's a fetus or a 40 year old Somalian).

I do very much respect how being pro-life is essentially recognizing the extreme desensitization to human life and suffering in today's society, possibly one of the biggest symptoms of our corporate life visions. But maybe that desensitization was always there, who knows...
 
D's said:
Male Seals often rape penguins, and it usually kills the penguin. :(
There is definitely some sexual aggression there.
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I like to think those situations somehow aren't as bad as they seem. Like with the Praying Mantis, does the male think "fuck it, it was worth it" before his head gets eaten? Does it start out consensual between seals and penguins.. and then inevitably it just goes a bit too far? Maybe it's not a bad way to die, for a slutty penguin. Being fucked to death by a seal. Bird up.
 
Driving, just passed a sign that said "pregnant? Need help? Call us -bethany Christian church". At least all of them aren't *huge* hippocrits
 
Zephyn said:
Driving, just passed a sign that said "pregnant? Need help? Call us -bethany Christian church". At least all of them aren't *huge* hippocrits
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What that actually means is "We will ensure that everyone knows you're a fuckin slut for the rest of your life while we steal your baby and subject it to a lifetime of hurt and abuse."

Never trust a 'christian'...
 
If you are the woman who finds herself pregnant then it is your buisness what you do from there.


Anyone else: your opinion and what it is based on is irrelevant.


Its not a "choice" to have or not to have, surgical abortions and the process that comes with it is pretty horrendous physically. The RU486 pill means a few days of agony and blood loss. Even the morning after pill could be seen as omg murder, hope these folk only have sex when trying for a baby themselves.


No one who hasn't been in that position would understand , moral and ethics or arguments on when a life is a life dont matter, its "what the fuck am I going to do" time. The mothers life, what it means for her, everything changes and that is scary and personal, the spawn isn't even felt or noticeable at all in the early stages and really doesn't have the impact of reality being present until the baby is way too far along to change your mind.

Single mothers dont get much empathy , can't win either way, maybe go feed and house some homeless forgotten adults before forcing decisions on other people's gametes. No one gives a shit about a definite life that's out of the womb that needs help, do they?
 
✿Dai₷y✿ said:
No one gives a shit about a definite life that's out of the womb that needs help, do they?
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This is so often the case. Not that people in this thread are guilty of it, but in general, so many religious types who are so violently all about a fetus' rights seem tom stop caring about the child once it's born... then it just becomes another welfare baby sucking away their hard-earned tax dollars. I saw a great one-panel political comic that illustrated this the best I've ever seen, wish I had saved it.

Cream Gravy? said:
I recall talking to my parents a few years back, suggesting I was more willing to adopt than to have my own child due to bad genes on both sides. They were shocked and horrified.
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Wow he was horrified that you would adopt? That's confusing to me.
 
Xorkoth said:
Wow he was horrified that you would adopt? That's confusing to me.
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Both my parents were. They want me to continue their bloodline and my sister is asexual; the wife and I determined our line will end here, so we considered adoption for a while. At this point we're not financially ready but I wouldn't rule it out. Any spawn of ours would be predisposed to addiction, anxiety, OCD, and schizophrenia. I wouldn't want to risk giving a child all the woes that we already suffer through.

But it does beautifully illustrate the hypocrisy of pro-fetus people, such as my super Catholic parents.
 
yeah the "continuing the line" thing. I get it, for myself anyway. Though my genes are quite good, no major hereditary health problems or mental issues aside from psoriasis and dementia if you make it to 90+. The thought of producing a person with my genes is appealing to me. But I think adoption is a wonderful and noble thing, and is substantially better for the world, as it doesn't add new people, and it gives a loving home to one of the vast numbers of unwanted children that have already been born
 
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