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Opinion To Be or Not To Be (An Abortion Thread)

It has always been my understanding that plan b does indeed generally prevent fertilization (and I quickly Googled before posting this and it would appear to reconfirm my existing understanding). In which case no I have absolutely no objections to its use.
 
cduggles said:
So @JessFR , would you equate using Plan B, which prevents implantation in case there is a fertilized egg (it just gets expelled), with a late-term abortion?
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Can I clarify what you mean by late-term?

People shy away from this but everyone has a term limit.
I think it is relevant.
 
Should people get abortions when the "fetus" is 36 weeks?
If so, under what circumstance... and why?

The point of this thread - the question - is: do we have the right system in place?

Anti abortion lunatics just want a conversation, I think. At the very least, anyway. This is an important issue... Isn't it?
 
I would say that I find early term abortion less objectionable than late term.

I don't really agree with it either way, but I am more understanding of early term abortion yes. It has more gray area and room for uncertainty. Whereas late term strikes me as just wrong.

I should probably clarify when I've said I generally don't agree with banning abortion, I mean banning it at any point, in general I'm much more skeptical that late term abortion can be justified being legal.
 
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cduggles said:
I would imagine third trimester, but the vast majority of those abortions are babies with severe genetic or developmental disorders that will render them stillborn or having a painful and/or very short life.
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That's another instance where I would generally consider abortion acceptable, if that's what the parents decide that is.

It simply being disabled that is, but severely impaired to the point of being virtually certain to die very young regardless. There's no point making the parents go through that just for the sake of extending life at all costs IMHO.
 
I have a family member who works in an abortion clinic, abroad. It isn't a blood relation, but (increasingly) that matters less and less to me. Also the odds of this are very high. I have a million cousins. I am related to everyone. So she deals with people who have a medical need. I don't have a problem with that either. I'm not a lunatic. At the end of the day. I am a medical professional, I'm not a politician. It's not my place to say what is right or wrong when I'm getting paid. I just do my job.

I have talked to her, frankly, about her professional experiences and it's pretty horrific... I think, when you're liberal and (you talk to conservative people about politics) it can get a bit messy. The same applies vice-versa.

Abortion is a serious procedure. It is consensual miscarriage. If you pretend like it is something else, that's not good for women IMO.

People are super emotional and sensitive, but they spend their lives (male or female) pretending not to be... At the end of the day, we are vulnerable whether we like it or not.

This is a serious issue. The left engages with abortion as if (somehow) it is simultaneously murder and convenience.
 
cduggles said:
the vast majority of those abortions are
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I have to ask you a question and I don't think you deserve me asking it of you. I was a moderator on reddit for over a year and a half. It's a shitty position to be in. So, I'm giving you this: respond / don't respond = it's up to you.

I think we've had somewhat similar professional careers. I've spent an enormous amount of time looking after people with disabilities, Many of my patients have not been disabled, but it is a skillset I list on my resume.

I have been the last person to see a client alive... more than once.

I've worked in Emergency Departments in two predominantly white Western countries. I struggle sometimes to differentiate between an innocent fetus and someone I've saved who is just - and nothing more than - human garbage. People who nobody cares about.

Mark my words, if you are a junky and you need help... paramedics don't think you are as valuable as a pregnant woman... And (odds are) they don't give a shit about the baby either.

Unfortunately, I never had much of an opportunity to work with newborn children or anybody else other than stage 4 cancers besides chronic pain and other hopeless cases.

I kill people who are sick. I tell people bad news. I tell people they are going to die. I tell people their husbands and their kids are going to die. I am that person sometimes... And sometimes there is a new born child I get to glimpse for a second. The miracle child - who was breach - that they saved. I get to see it.

I also get to see a lot of other faces.
 
birdup.snaildown said:
I have to ask you a question and I don't think you deserve me asking it of you. I was a moderator on reddit for over a year and a half. It's a shitty position to be in. So, I'm giving you this: respond / don't respond = it's up to you.

I think we've had somewhat similar professional careers. I've spent an enormous amount of time looking after people with disabilities, Many of my patients have not been disabled, but it is a skillset I list on my resume.

I have been the last person to see a client alive... more than once.

I've worked in Emergency Departments in two predominantly white Western countries. I struggle sometimes to differentiate between an innocent fetus and someone I've saved who is just - and nothing more than - human garbage. People who nobody cares about.

Mark my words, if you are a junky and you need help... paramedics don't think you are as valuable as a pregnant woman... And (odds are) they don't give a shit about the baby either.

Unfortunately, I never had much of an opportunity to work with newborn children or anybody else other than stage 4 cancers besides chronic pain and other hopeless cases.

I kill people who are sick. I tell people bad news. I tell people they are going to die. I tell people their husbands and their kids are going to die. I am that person sometimes... And sometimes there is a new born child I get to glimpse for a second. The miracle child - who was breach - that they saved. I get to see it.

I also get to see a lot of other faces.
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I’m not sure what your question is to me, but I do relate to a lot of what you have posted.

(And yes, modding is a mostly thankless job. I can’t imagine modding Reddit though 😕.)
 
cduggles said:
I’m not sure what your question is to me
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me said:
In retrospect, I'm not entirely sure that I asked one.
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I think I know what the question is... I mean - honestly - I don't think I know, I know what it means to me... I know what it means. It means all sorts of things. It means do I think about the person that could have resulted if that abortion didn't occur. Sure, but - beyond that - it extends to all sorts of shit.

I don't think it makes sense if we just multiply the population. That bothers me. I've said it before. It's possible we get to a point where it makes sense to kill people... but we aren't anywhere near it now.

Saying it is immoral to bring a child into an overpopulated world (for me) starts to uncomfortably approach the theory of convenience.

...

I'm talking theory, here. I've lived my life according to convenience. I can't get pregnant (because I'm a man) and I know it. These things are easier to say than do. If you haven't actively conceived a child, it is much easier to deny their existence.

If you have acid and think about an ejaculation, it has the potential to be traumatic. If abortions are traumatic, surely ejaculations are too... I honestly don't know what the answer is here. Nobody does.

If fetuses are humans, sperms might as well be humans... right?

Or is there a difference?
 
Blueberry_87 said:
I got pregnant at 17 and knew this was the last thing I should be dealing with but i was so young and scared. I knew as soon as I told my mom she'd take me straight to get an abortion and knowing that, I prolonged telling her without putting conscience effort into it. Deep down I knew I was trying to let enough time go by where an abortion would be impossible by the time she knew. Luckily I've always been tiny so I wasn't obviously showing until I was about 6 months along. She realized, asked me how far along I was and I pretended to be vague and not know. Went to the doc, found out i was 6 months along, first thing she said to the doc was what state will abort this far along? The doctor was shocked to say the least. Then her thing was pushing me to adopt, it was all she talked about. I just kinda went along without knowing what hell I wanted to do. Once I had my son and held him in my arms I knew I absolutely could not give him up. By then I was 18, but an 18 year old is in no way able to handle the emotions that come with having a first child and then having to make the ultimate sacrifice. I ended up keeping him and my mom kicked me out and called DCF hoping that would get my son taken. I had other family who had stepped in and offered support by then so the DCF worker was more than happy to let me keep my son and she, too, was appalled at my mom. She's a piece of work. Anyway, sorry to get way off topic but as for abortion - I know I personally could not have one. I don't think I could handle the aftermath and guilt. But I support another woman or girl's choice to have one, there's tons of situations where it's just not feasible to expect her to keep the baby without any money or outside support nor expect her to be able to give birth to her child then give it to someone else. Not to mention pregnancies that are the result of rape or incest. That's traumatic in so many ways and I would not blame anyone one bit for having an abortion in that case, especially a very young girl. These are all huge, personal choices that only the mother, and father if he's there, can make. Outside opinions mean fuck all.
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Would you have had such guilt if you were not exposed to the idea that it was "murder"? What if you grew up with a background believing the soul would find a more suitable host?
 
Zephyn said:
Would you have had such guilt if you were not exposed to the idea that it was "murder"? What if you grew up with a background believing the soul would find a more suitable host?
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The stigma of abortion is very strong in American society. It’s barely legal, difficult to access, and something women are taught to hide.
 
Ireland is a great example of what happens when you don’t have abortion available. The recent unveiling of the reports into the mother and baby homes are an absolute scar on our country. I am ashamed to be Irish at the moment and that’s hard for me to say.

A few years ago we discovered at a Tuam mother and baby home there were no less than 800 babies found in a septic tank. It was “kinder to strangle these children at birth” was a quote of a dr at the time....

Ireland had many of these “housings” and you can imagine how the mothers and children were treated. I’ll add a link but here’s a quote.
“It estimated 9,000 children, 15% of the total, died – an “appalling” infant mortality rate about double the national average. Neglect, poor food and extreme austerity all played a part. Instead of saving the lives of children legally deemed illegitimate, the homes “significantly reduced their prospects of survival”.

These children and their mothers suffered horribly all thanks to the Catholic Church and no abortions.

They are still finding babies bodies in fields currently in Ireland. Recently 700 were found in a field in Cavan.

www.theguardian.com

Ireland publishes report on 'appalling' abuse at mother and baby homes

‘We embraced judgmental, moral certainty and perverse religious morality,’ says taoiseach Micheál Martin
www.theguardian.com www.theguardian.com
 
It seems to me abortion opinions might correlate with what time zone the aforesaid individual lives in lol
 
Zephyn said:
Would you have had such guilt if you were not exposed to the idea that it was "murder"? What if you grew up with a background believing the soul would find a more suitable host?
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It’s not even that i thought of it as “murder”, more that this was my own first child and i couldn’t reconcile the idea of just getting rid of them. I would have always thought about that baby and who they would have been. It’s hard to really put into words, the guilt isn’t just because i felt like i was committing murder, it went deeper than that.
 
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