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Miscellaneous Thoughts on medical and psychological professionals controlling legal psychedelics?

neversickanymore

neversickanymore

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Wondering what your personal thoughts are on current medical and psychological professionals trying to administer psychedelic drugs and guide trips?

What positive and negative do you see with this? Have any suggestions on who and how this should be handled better?
 
Personally, i look at the dose sizes used in a lot of research and wonder if doctors will ever be permitted or want to to dose sufficient amounts to really get results for most people.

I’m not suggesting that everyone needs heroic or frequent or even regular doses to alleviate mental health problems including addiction. But I’ve had the most positive mental outcomes from near debilitating trips (as far as treating my addiction issues goes). There is no research that examines such doses.

There’s also the argument that psychedelic medicine works best in conjunction with talk therapy. While that may be true, it may also be the case that the talk therapy industry is trying to ensure they don’t get cut out of the picture.

I’m not opposed to talk therapy and have had plenty of it but I question whether I require it as an adjunct to psychedelics to improve my mental health at this point on my life.
 
They have a role to play but they shouldn't be the ones controlling these drugs.

The drugs have potential medical applications but I think you can have positive and beneficial experiences with them outside of a specific context like therapy etc. Either as a one-off (or repeat) recreational experience or as a self-directed exploration of your own thoughts and consciousness, etc. The track record of psychiatrists etc. experimenting with drugs like LSD etc during the 50s/60s is also, at the very least, "mixed". A lot of deeply unethical, even traumatizing practices back then at the hands of "professionals".

Admittedly it'd probably be better today just because people have more of an idea of what NOT to do, lol. But still, it's just mentioned to illustrate the equation, "eggheads + hubris + powerful mind altering drugs = potentially bad outcomes".

Psychedelic hallucinogens should absolutely be investigated by doctors, scientists etc, they have a lot of potential when it comes to treating psychological distress, but personally I don't associate the value of such drugs with any kind of clinical setting. But maybe that's just the result of growing up in a country where such drugs are illegal and associated entirely with recreational drug subcultures.
 
Great takes..

so expanding on this , here is a broadcast from a researcher from the University of Wisconsin.. Comes from what appears to be a long term skeptic with no specific knowledge.

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Explore the largest community of artists, bands, podcasters and creators of music & audio
m.soundcloud.com m.soundcloud.com

I’m happy that more academics are looking into this but do they have any clue what they are trying to do?

edit: thank the heavens as it looks like it’s been taken down. Bumbling bumbling.. Dr Watson

Here is the new lab

pharmacy.wisc.edu

New UW Center To Study Emerging Field Of Psychedelic Compounds For Medical Treatments - School of Pharmacy

Based at the UW School of Pharmacy, the UW–Madison Transdisciplinary Center for Research in Psychoactive Substances brings together leading scientists on the forefront of psychedelic research The University of Wisconsin–Madison […]
pharmacy.wisc.edu pharmacy.wisc.edu
 
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I think it should not be controlled, but that professionals should be introduced to all aspects of psychedelics the same way they are introduced to psychology as a course, to obstetrics as a course, to all things that could be specialties but are part of core medicine. HOWEVER, I do not think psychology has matured enough yet to assess what is happening with psychedelics. What I mean is that there is no good widely accepted model of psychological action - there is only a receptor affinity abstraction to some brain mode, but this mode does not even have a page in any medical texts yet. i.e. what is normal and what is psychedelically extended BRAIN MODE WISE by having 5ht receptors engaged or blocked.

My theory is that 5ht receptor activation increases the sensitivity of cortical & pyramidal neurons and thereby extends the thalamo-cortical signal feedback beyond the normal 5 or 6 pulses creating more resonant and layered impressions - but this has not been examined using laboratory equipment.
 
pupnik said:
I think it should not be controlled, but that professionals should be introduced to all aspects of psychedelics the same way they are introduced to psychology as a course, to obstetrics as a course, to all things that could be specialties but are part of core medicine. HOWEVER, I do not think psychology has matured enough yet to assess what is happening with psychedelics. What I mean is that there is no good widely accepted model of psychological action - there is only a receptor affinity abstraction to some brain mode, but this mode does not even have a page in any medical texts yet. i.e. what is normal and what is psychedelically extended BRAIN MODE WISE by having 5ht receptors engaged or blocked.

My theory is that 5ht receptor activation increases the sensitivity of cortical & pyramidal neurons and thereby extends the thalamo-cortical signal feedback beyond the normal 5 or 6 pulses creating more resonant and layered impressions - but this has not been examined using laboratory equipment.
Click to expand...
in this article http://psychedelic-information-theory.com/Erratic-Hallucination
copyright 2010, by James Kent
I am credited (anonymously as a Canadian researcher) as the originator of the theory of frame stacking, which is what happens when the fading of frames of experience are extended when neurons have 5ht receptor's activated.
It could take a while to have this trickle into medical college, but I am doing what I can to give it a push.
 
The thread title says it all really. There's of course the risk that governments will implement tight medical regulations on psychedelics, effectively stopping real legalization from happening.

If we're gonna do this democracy/liberal thing, all drugs must be properly legalized. One may of course appreciate a half-assed regulated model, but it can't reasonably be counted as a victory.
 
neversickanymore said:
Wondering what your personal thoughts are on current medical and psychological professionals trying to administer psychedelic drugs and guide trips?

What positive and negative do you see with this? Have any suggestions on who and how this should be handled better?
Click to expand...
See that in many modern countries.This psychedelic medicine.For sure if it put in some frames this policies would bring reliefe to many suffering people,without much side effects.Theres enough studies that well ilustrated of benenefits of legaly prescribed psychechelics.At least person which be guide for some for trip is better to be with some MD degree and have a personal experience.Some substances must reclacified so specialist to get acsess to them.Psychedelics at all have enormous healing power when used propriate and for certain illnessses
 
Me prefer tripping by myself whetever i want and when the moment is right.Talk in general terms about using a psychedelics in proper settings,with proper guides in clinical trials at first by ordinary people with some sort of health and mental problems.Not a usual psychonauts,but people which even did not tried even weed
 
Whatever happens with institutionalization, I just hope psychedelics remain abundant "in the wild"
 
perpetualdawn said:
Whatever happens with institutionalization, I just hope psychedelics remain abundant "in the wild"
Click to expand...
Deforestation of large plots of jungle would have negative impact on all speces inc.psychedelics plant.Unproper cuttings of slow growing cacti like peyote,unregulated gathering of wild growing plants like iboga and kratom also is a fact
 
@Nas47 I meant that figuratively. "In the wild", as in in the underground. It would be sad if institutionalized psychedelics manage to edge out the black market and underground distribution networks, and if the only way you could have a trip was in a Certified Tripping Facility for $500 or something.

I fully agree that natural habitats need to be preserved, and that unauthorized/irresponsible harvesting of wild psychedelic plants must be kept in check and severely discouraged. For peyote specifically, unless you're Huichol or something, you should not harvest peyote from the wild, or eat wild harvested peyote. It's totally endangered. Grow some San Pedro! It's easy and fun.
 
I am sure that institonanalyzed psyched. wont have impact on black market...so it you wAnna trippin you will.at least theres a some not endangered mushrooms groing in almost everywhere...Keep safe
 
That's true. Mushrooms have a way of showing up almost all over the planet, and cultivation teks are pretty accessible
 
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