Those who require medication indefinitely, over the course of a lifetime - explanation?

[JohnBoy2000]

Is there a genetic flaw they require medication to overcompensate for?

I was of the opinion at one point that medication was suitable to coax to assist someone through a difficult period (talking anxiety/depression meds).

But now I'm beginning to think that where there may be an "inherent character defect", medication may simply be necessary for perpetuity to address that issue.

Some Dr's advocate for the school of thought that non-drug therapies are the true long term remedial interventions.

I thought this at one point myself also.

But now........... I'm not sure.

I say that cause, all my life I've suffered from "social performance disorder", per se.

SSRI's compensate for this to the point where I became almost enigmatically socially fluid, more functional that the majority of other dudes I know.
I speculate this is because I spent so long working on other areas of social function to try and overcompensate for that inherent deficit, reached the end of that road (maxed out that style of intervention), only to realize that ultimately, I can't do this without the meds.

Then the meds combined with them years and years of ulterior self-improved-to-function-better-socially, and the result is a dramatically functional social entity -- bizarrely so.

But ultimately, without the meds, nothing doing.

So it just makes me question historical ideas of what medication can and can't do, and what it can and cannot treat.

 

[Asparagus_Prince]

Sometimes I dread reading the word "depends" when I ask a question or research something. But it's really apt in reference to your question. And I'm sure you know that.

My father has been on Paxil his entire life. But his breakdowns and depression didn't start overwhelming him until he was about 20. I always wondered... how did he cope BEFORE 20? He was a good, popular student and a superstar athlete. So does that mean he wasn't born with it and/or that it wasn't genetic? And that the illness developed circumstantially? Perhaps it was a little of both. Because HIS mother was a nervous wreck so there's no way this wasn't passed on to him. But what triggered that animal to come out of the cage when he was 20?

But that poor guy has hated the idea of being "dependent" on medications and has tried, over and over, to taper off Paxil. And it's always the same outcome... my mother and I look at each other, roll our eyes, and know what kind of train is coming. He begins curling up in a ball both proverbially and literally, and eventually he goes back on the meds.

I don't often pride myself for having a moderate opinion because I prefer to get my ass off the fence and have a clear stance. But with this topic I really do think I'm in the middle. Both extremes on this issue really rub me the wrong way. People that avoid medications with no exception annoy me. My ignorant late uncle used to give my father a hard time for "depending" on medications and not "sucking it up" or whatever. I'd still like to his slug his corpse over that. And there are other paranoid types like my best friend that avoid medications at all costs for whatever phobic reason jammed in their brains. Governmental population control, perhaps? But the other extreme- people that think medications are the answer to every little thing, bug me too.

I'm rambling now and not really answering your question.

But when you say you can't do without meds to help you socially, do you mean that literally? Or do you mean it's "hard to imagine" functioning without them? This might be a hair-splitting semantics thing, I'm sure.

I'm basically introverted, but unlike you (it seems) it's almost like a preference and something that I never considered addressing with medications. But, I consider it an "enhancement" the times I HAVE taken something to help me be more outgoing. I CAN do without it. But I'd prefer the performance enhancer.

 

[Electrum1]

I mean diabetics clearly need insulin, and HIV infected people clearly need HIV meds, but things like benzos are only prescribed long term due to lazy/corrupt doctors in my opinion

Maybe they get a kickback by the drug manufacturer, maybe not, but nobody should be on benzos long term, but they are, so something is up

 

[Electrum1]

I think the same about SSRI's too

 

[Asparagus_Prince]

My teenaged daughter is eager to be prescribed something to help her with her ADHD. And although I know I myself have benefitted from things like Adderall, I must say that I kinda steer her away from the idea of popping meds to solve a problem. Sometimes I kinda feel guilty for thinking this way. But I think I'd feel guilty too if I didn't challenge her to address her ADHD without meds. I tell her that NOW is the time to get herself in good habits and routines. And that it gets harder and harder the older you get. And I've challenged her with this: So what if the Adderall works really well? You're just committing yourself to be on it for life? That's the plan? Because if you have to go off it one day when you're 30 won't it be hard to function without it?

Age has a lot to do with it. Especially with substance abuse. It always concerns me when teenagers rely too much on drugs to cope. Even if it's THC. Those brains are still developing and not learning how to cope if they're always numbed. I have more faith in someone that develops an addiction later in adulthood. Maybe their brains can remember how it used to be.

Sorry, I'm being tangential. I've been in bored/avoiding abusing mode in recent days and it's good for me to blab to strangers.

 

[Electrum1]

Nah, what you just said is legit. I definitely agree about fix what you can while young, build good habits. I hope it works out with your daughter

 

[paranoid android]

I will likely be on morphine or some other opiate, zyprexa and benzos for the rest of my life. I need those meds to control my pain, cotards syndrome and anxiety and ptsd. Im only really worried about the benzos due to the dementia risk

 

[Asparagus_Prince]

Nah, what you just said is legit. I definitely agree about fix what you can while young, build good habits. I hope it works out with your daughter

Thanks.

Don't yell at me, but I've let her sample my Adderall before to help boost her with a creative pursuit. Like, literally 4 or 5 times over the last year. And it's been super effective for her and she knows it. But now she kinda obsesses about finding a doctor to prescribe it for her. So I kinda regret ever letting her try it.

There HAS been a positive teaching moment there. I've told her if she ever DOES have it prescribed to challenge herself to only using it once or twice per week. To think of it not as a necessity, but as an occasional boost or enhancer. And to not rely on it consistently. But, overall I still mostly regret ever letting her get a taste of it.

Wow, the anonymous confessionary power of the internet! I'd never admit this to any friend or family member. But to that stranger Electrum1 on that one website... sure, why not? (lol)

 

[Electrum1]

Lol, you're good, I'm trustworthy and ethical with other peoples info

That was one I didn't mention with benzos, amphetamines (ADHD). You definitely don't want her on them long term in my opinion. I've known a few people that were fine and after 20+ years of ADHD meds they went into psycosis. Not temporary like using too much meth for a month, but permanant after 20 years of amphetamines. Pretty much schizo now, so yeah prescription amphetamines long term are bad too from what I've seen

Maybe try and get her to focus on something that could become a career that she is truly interested in. That will cause genuine focus and interest that is sustainable without drugs and could result in a fulfilling/rewarding career

 

[Asparagus_Prince]

I don't have to guide her towards a career. She definitely knows exactly what she wants.

What you were saying about the long-term Adderall usage is something that bugs me from time to time. I wasn't on it in my teens or 20s so I hope that's a positive thing. But in the last year or 2 I'm noticing more and more moments where I can't think of a name or a word. And everyone has experienced this. And most people I know will dismiss it as a normal aging thing. But with me, I don't know. It seems to be coming on just a tad too quickly and noticeably. And with simple words that no one forgets. For example, a couple months ago I was telling my daughter a story and I could NOT think of the word "toaster". I snapped my fingers and was like... "the thing you burn bread in!" THAT is new for me. I also couldn't find the word "paper towel" recently.

But at the same time I've benefitted so greatly from it. And I have tangible evidence to prove it. And I know that life will lose a lot of zip without it. It's that risk/reward thing I guess. I don't take it every day, but close. And once every 6 weeks I force myself to take a 3-4 day break. I kinda pat myself on the back but deep down I doubt that's enough IF there's indeed a looming deficit coming down the pike for me.

I have a vague, tentative plan to reduce down to something akin to the advice I gave my daughter. Like 2 times per week or so. But perhaps mid or late next year. But that ain't happening right now because of certain life circumstances.

 

[JohnBoy2000]

Sometimes I dread reading the word "depends" when I ask a question or research something. But it's really apt in reference to your question. And I'm sure you know that.

My father has been on Paxil his entire life. But his breakdowns and depression didn't start overwhelming him until he was about 20. I always wondered... how did he cope BEFORE 20? He was a good, popular student and a superstar athlete. So does that mean he wasn't born with it and/or that it wasn't genetic? And that the illness developed circumstantially? Perhaps it was a little of both. Because HIS mother was a nervous wreck so there's no way this wasn't passed on to him. But what triggered that animal to come out of the cage when he was 20?

Similar'ish timeline for myself.

If I corelate "emotional support networks" to illness onset, it syncs up perfectly.

I started to become unwell about 6 months prior to turning 21 but managed okay for the next 18 months or so.

The reason being, growing up, my family supported me over and above, including school supports and mental health supports therein.

In college I just got ridiculously lucky to have an unbelievably supportive network of friends.

When we started to go our separate ways, about 6 months prior to me turning 21, cue symptom onset.

......

In relation to "coping mechanisms", this was what I began to engage with at the age of 24 when my body/brain was like, "do something or I'm no longer working for you".

So yeah, if I went on meds then, they would almost certainly have stunted my having identified the necessity to determine/establish coping mechanisms.

And I think that phrase, "coping mechanisms", is a critical characterization.

.........

Go figure but, my entire coping mechanism strategy relies on kind of an innovative approach to managing and handling emotions (and by extension behaviour, and therefore by default, how I function socially and establish and maintain relationships, which determines well being/health).

..........

What I'm second guessing in this thread is.......... will the coping mechanisms in and of themselves, ever be sufficient?

Or will I always ultimately depend on the additional support of neuromodulators (signal boosters, aka medication).

Maybe I'm jumping the gun thinking I will, but there's no doubt there are times when I simply can't get by without them.

 

[McFly]

I take Amgevita injections, a generic NHS version of Humira TNF-a therapy, for psoriatic-arthritis 10+ years and will do so until genetherapy cures me. My mum used to say she had a really bad flu while pregnant with me and that could be why I have an autoimmune disease, it makes sense as if I'm developing while mum is sick my immune system will be switched on too and will not know any different to switch off again.

 

[AlphaMethylPhenyl]

There's no great biological proof out there, it's mostly what people experience psychologically that determines how useful a medication is. There are theories, but they're still very reductive.

I'll probably be on meds for my whole life, that's okay because I'm pretty used to them, building up a life from my personal ground zero. Should have played the game earlier and took what they told me to. Oh well, no going back to the past. I'm still me, I just fit in better, in a good way. It's a personal decision with these psych meds, I get that. Whatever's best for you, though that's not always very easy to determine. Took a lot of trust in my providers to get where I am today, far considering my cohort.

Yeah when it gets down to, it's just what works best for the individual. I will say that most psych meds need a significant trial period, 12 weeks or more, depending, not for benzos and stimulants usually, but many others. Playing the guinea pig does suck, a necessary suck, a product of not understanding these meds very well from a biological standpoint. I think of them as a little boost, hardening my outer layer, preventing me from going out of bounds while I learn what's like to live again.

 

[someguyontheinternet]

I mean diabetics clearly need insulin, and HIV infected people clearly need HIV meds, but things like benzos are only prescribed long term due to lazy/corrupt doctors in my opinion

Maybe they get a kickback by the drug manufacturer, maybe not, but nobody should be on benzos long term, but they are, so something is up

That sounds like to me you consider a condition like diabetes to be somehow different than a condition like anxiety or PTSD. The only thing different is how society views specific types of medical conditions. SSRIs are fantastic for some people with anxiety conditions and they may require life long treatment

Psychological conditions are just as based in biochemistry as diabetes or heart disease. At the end of the day all physiology is biochemical

 

[MedicinalUser247]

I require taking medication for the rest of my life. I have "Schizoaffective Disorder Bipolar Type". If I don't take my medication I go nuts. And I like taking what I'm on because it mellows me out.

 

[JohnBoy2000]

On the idea of these illnesses being pre-disposed or genetic.

Absolutely no doubt, I was born a certain way, and require dramatic emotional support to function.

It was going to be inevitable I would need to determine some alternate method to managing emotions, which of course became evident into adulthood, when support networks of childhood and adolescents are withdrawn.

Some periods I simply could not have negotiated without medication (unless someone came along and provided me with pre-determined coping-mechanisms I was obliged to establish).

Right now it seems like I don't really tolerate meds I have in the past very well, but need SOMETHING to get by.

Low dose methylphenidate some days, zopiclone to sleep some days, I've just trialled low dose sertraline cause I couldn't tolerate high dose, but it's proving ineffective.

Perhaps vortioxetine may get me through another period.

Remains to be seen; the thread title question may well answer itself in due course.

 

[MedicinalUser247]

My farther was a Paranoid Schizophrenic, but he was an award winning architect. My mother has Bipolar Disorder, but she was a teacher. And I have "Schizoaffective Disorder Bipolar Type". I figure I'm I hybrid of their sicknesses, but I try to look on the good side of things... I'm intelligent. If you want to dispute that about what I know about pharmacology go ahead. I barely know nothing. I'm a a high school drop out that taught myself.

 

[emkee_reinvented]

My teenaged daughter is eager to be prescribed something to help her with her ADHD. And although I know I myself have benefitted from things like Adderall, I must say that I kinda steer her away from the idea of popping meds to solve a problem. Sometimes I kinda feel guilty for thinking this way. But I think I'd feel guilty too if I didn't challenge her to address her ADHD without meds. I tell her that NOW is the time to get herself in good habits and routines. And that it gets harder and harder the older you get. And I've challenged her with this: So what if the Adderall works really well? You're just committing yourself to be on it for life? That's the plan? Because if you have to go off it one day when you're 30 won't it be hard to function without it?

Age has a lot to do with it. Especially with substance abuse. It always concerns me when teenagers rely too much on drugs to cope. Even if it's THC. Those brains are still developing and not learning how to cope if they're always numbed. I have more faith in someone that develops an addiction later in adulthood. Maybe their brains can remember how it used to be.

Sorry, I'm being tangential. I've been in bored/avoiding abusing mode in recent days and it's good for me to blab to strangers.

Its not tangential, i will look up the meaning of the word later. Dosing kids with stims is imo debatable.
Grown ups ok, but prescribing 8 year olds MethylPhenidate is young. Just let em be kids,
dont have the system change that. You can always take meds when you get older, like 21+.
Can t actually set a real start age, it depends on a lot of circumstances and the person.

When i was young ADHD didn t excist only MBD [Minimal Brain Damage, later called ADHD],
so medicating it now to kids seems a bit $ related.
Or because classes getting bigger, weirder gouvernement opposed learning goals a school must achieve. Or whatever.
Natural learning always has been proven to work best, and schools are not natural.

One thing when at older age when prescribed first MPH later dextro-Amphetamine [way better as first line treatment imo] but it aint.
Somehow, but the latter really had a good effect on me, better planning, organizing and starting and finishing tasks.
But it did feel a bit like cheating in hindsight, but in this society thats needed. Plain and simple, otherwise i wouldn t need it.

It has an obvious effect on my substance abuse. being cut off by my dr . s many times. I notice direct correlation to illicit drug abuse and not taking ADHD meds. Which is a +.

Only part i must dispute for myself. Young age correlating to forming habits and routines. As kid teenager i was only good in forming a habit to Cannabis. The older I got the better i got at developing better habits and routines. With or without meds.
Yours and your daughters Miles May Vary. Girls are quicker anyway, right.

 

[JohnBoy2000]

One thing when at older age when prescribed first MPH later dextro-Amphetamine [way better as first line treatment imo] but it aint.
Somehow, but the latter really had a good effect on me, better planning, organizing and starting and finishing tasks.
But it did feel a bit like cheating in hindsight, but in this society thats needed. Plain and simple, otherwise i wouldn t need it.

Interesting comment.

Care to explain further your thoughts around it?

 

[specialrelativity]

I guess you've never heard of n,n-dimethyltryptamine.