Those lovely Hindus!

[Mr Wobble]

EDIT: Spectacularly bad thread title! I don't know what I was thinking 8) Sorry


I think that all religions are based upon a fundamental degree of delusion, but I'd always thought that the Hindus were at the nice end of that spectrum.

Not so sure now.

 

[MyDoorsAreOpen]

And we in the West are so much more civilized, with our meat factories, cows in tiny pens, growth hormones, and mechanized slaughterouses? Bah! We're in no position to get on a moral high horse when it comes to animal sacrifices, especially ones where the meat will be put to charitable use, and the animals are treated somewhat humanely before they're killed.

In this day and age, I think humans would be better off without the domesticated cow period, but that's neither here nor there.

 

[Mr Wobble]

we in the West are so much more civilized, with our meat factories

Speak for yourself, I'm a vegan!

 

[Damien]

heh, did you even finish reading the post?

 

[Mr Wobble]

We're in no position to get on a moral high horse when it comes to animal sacrifices, especially ones where the meat will be put to charitable use, and the animals are treated somewhat humanely before they're killed.

In the main event, 250 appointed residents with traditional kukri knives began their task of decapitating more than 10,000 buffalo in a dusty enclosure guarded by high walls and armed police.

Frightened calves galloped around in vain as the men, wearing red bandanas and armbands, pursued them and chopped off their heads.

I live out in the countyside, grew up amongst farmers and so I know a fair bit about what goes on in farming, at least around here (hill sheep, beef cattle, dairy), and there's no farmer I know who would ever dream of treating his animals like that!

 

[Mr Wobble]

heh, did you even finish reading the post?

yes. ?

 

[Damien]

I understand, completely. lol Sorry it just seemed like you were arguing with him when he was agreeing with you but now I see where you were coming from.

 

[Mr Wobble]

Would it be okay for me to criticise if this was this was European Christian festival?

I think animal cruelty is wrong wherever it happens and whoever is doing it and, where it is done in the name of superstition, rather than absolute necessity, I kind of think that's even worse.

But pardon me for mentioning it.

 

[Mr Wobble]

I understand, completely. lol Sorry it just seemed like you were arguing with him when he was agreeing with you but now I see where you were coming from.

Sarchasm, lol!

No, he wasn't agreeing with me, he was insinuating that, being a westerner, I had no right to comment. I think the implication was that I was being hypocritical, sanctimonious and patronising, oh and maybe there was a bit of latent racism in there?

Well, I hope I'm not a racist (latent or otherwise), but I'll happily admit to being anti-religious.

I do try to be equally scornful of all religions.

 

[MyDoorsAreOpen]

When you adjust for levels of industrial development, I really don't see a large gradient of humaneness between the way we slaughter animals and the tradition you referenced in that article. Both involve decapitating beasts that are later eaten. I think you and I both agree that the world would both be a better place if this ended in all cultures.

If you're going to slaughter animals at all, there is actually some good, I'd argue, in doing it publicly and ceremonially. The ceremonious nature of it reminds people that the animals' life is something of value. The public nature of it simply reminds people of where their food is coming from. Don't you think it's kind of messed up the way the raising, slaughter, and preparation of meat in the West is hidden entirely from the public eye, at least for the 80% of us that live in cities? It makes people forget what was required to bring meat to their dinner table, and more apt to take meat for granted. I doubt it's a coincidence you're a vegan when you grow up around animals farmed for meat. Vegetarianism is pretty common in Hindu countries too, and I bet seeing a ceremony like this only makes some vegetarians there even more resolute.

If your aim in starting this thread is just to bash religion, well we don't do that in here, sorry.

 

[Mr Wobble]

Okay, I agree with most of that.

It wasn't meant specifically as a religion bashing thread.

I was just pretty surprised that something like this was being done in the name of that particular religion. I knew that there was some ritual slaughter in Hindu tradition, but nothing on this scale.

And whatever you say, killing a load of animals together in that way, where the first killings are going to lead to herd panic, well that just shows such a lack of understanding or empathy for the poor creatures as to be barbaric, IMO.

If your aim in starting this thread is just to bash religion, well we don't do that in here, sorry.

As I say, that wasn't my intention - but I really hope that your not saying that religion is beyond criticism here, because that would kind of mean that the P part of P&S is meaningless.

 

[lostNfound]

What is the point of this thread?

 

[MyDoorsAreOpen]

Mr. Wobble, everything is open to criticism here, so long as you're respectful as to when and how you do it, and you always allow people to disagree.

lostNfound, we're on the topic of another cultural and religious group's tradition of ceremonial mass animal slaughter.

 

[Vader]

I'd always thought that the Hindus were at the nice end of that loony spectrum.

Are you familiar with the caste system? I think we have a tendency to romanticise Eastern religions in the West.

 

[Mr Wobble]

Are you familiar with the caste system? I think we have a tendency to romanticise Eastern religions in the West.

Fair point.

 

[lostNfound]

You are a patient one MDAO.

As far as I can see the OP is simply saying that Hindus are fundamentally loony and delusional. This could be said about mostly all religions depending on what snippet of the big picture you get to a chance to look at.

Sure they are sacrificing some animals and it's a sore point since you pointed you are vegan.
This isn't something they do all year round.

Sure 25,000 isn't just some, I know. I'm also certain they should be more aware now we are in the 21st century that a Goddess does not really need blood. Or should we?

Where does draw the line in respecting what you do not fully understand, particularly on sensitive topics like religion.

Live it let live, respect difference is all I an say.


I have to get to work now, but I am curious as to what happens to 25,000 carcases. Do they eat them or are they burnt once they get their blood?

Can not wasting the carcass justify the reason for the slaughter?
ANd if we are on the topic of slaughter, we have slaughter houses right through the Western world that could kill this many animals in a week but because it's done for our dietary requirements and not for loony Hindu beliefs no one bats an eyelid? Come on.

 

[azzazza !?]

^the article states that they are given away and fully used for meat, hide, etc

 

[Mr Wobble]

As far as I can see the OP is simply saying that Hindus are fundamentally loony and delusional.

Okay, the loony bit was ill judged - sorry (as was the thread title).

This could be said about mostly all religions depending on what snippet of the big picture you get to a chance to look at.

Well I do think that belief in organised religion is delusional, whether one considers the big picture, or snippets.

Does anyone not think that a belief in the tenets of Scientology is delusional?

Are the beliefs of Scientologists then really so much more fantastical than those of the longer established religions?

 

[Mr Wobble]

Live it let live, respect difference is all I an say.

I'm all for letting others do exactly as they wish - in so far as they do not cause harm or suffering to anyone, or anything.

But, unnecessary cruelty is just that - "it's their culture", doesn't really cut it with me.

And cruelty that is excused by an appeal to supersticious belief is, IMO, worse than that caused by ignorance alone.

 

[Mr Wobble]

ANd if we are on the topic of slaughter, we have slaughter houses right through the Western world that could kill this many animals in a week but because it's done for our dietary requirements and not for loony Hindu beliefs no one bats an eyelid? Come on.

Hmm, well I do think that one could argue that killing might be necessary to meet dietary requirements. Are you really saying that there is an equivalent necessity to meet supersticious belief? Come on.

Oh, and, according to the article, it's 250,000 animals, 1/4 million (not 25,000) - are there really any western slaughterhouses that could process that many animals in a week? Maybe there are, but they must be truly grim places!