This Scientist Has Invented a Synthetic Booze That Will End Hangovers and Alcohol-Rel

[JacksinPA]

Kind of a stretch calling aminoindanes, amphetamine analogs

No it's not. Just bend the side chain of 4-methoxyamphetamine around & close the ring to form the 5-methoxy-2-aminoindane.

 

[S.J.B.]

No it's not. Just bend the side chain of 4-methoxyamphetamine around & close the ring to form the 5-methoxy-2-aminoindane.

I would be surprised to see a successful prosecution that claims an aminoindane to be an amphetamine analogue, but then again, analogue laws are as vague as they come.

 

[Swerlz]

No it's not. Just bend the side chain of 4-methoxyamphetamine around & close the ring to form the 5-methoxy-2-aminoindane.

Too bad the analog act doesn't have that in the writing. Also, technically it would have to alpha-ethylPEA for the ring to become an indane. I know wikipedia says it's a rigid analog of amphetamine, but if you connect alpha methyl to the phenyl it'll be cyclobutane (a square, rather than a pentagon)

 

[JacksinPA]

Too bad the analog act doesn't have that in the writing. Also, technically it would have to alpha-ethylPEA for the ring to become an indane. I know wikipedia says it's a rigid analog of amphetamine, but if you connect alpha methyl to the phenyl it'll be cyclobutane (a square, rather than a pentagon)

Here you go. The ring has 5 carbons, not four.

 

[Swerlz]

derp...yeah you're right >< lol


Either way, I don't believe the analog act covers cyclization specifically

 

[JacksinPA]

Just looking at it you can see that it's an amphetamine analog. MDAI is not too far from it also.

Without getting into specifics regarding synthesis methods, this is, as drawn by me, a racemic form that can be resolved via recrystallization of a diasteriomeric salt. Like amphetamine itself, all or most of the activity resides in one isomer.

 

[JacksinPA]

derp...yeah you're right >< lol


Either way, I don't believe the analog act covers cyclization specifically

https://www.dea.gov/druginfo/ds.shtml

Drugs, substances, and certain chemicals used to make drugs are classified into five (5) distinct categories or schedules depending upon the drug?s acceptable medical use and the drug?s abuse or dependency potential. The abuse rate is a determinate factor in the scheduling of the drug; for example, Schedule I drugs have a high potential for abuse and the potential to create severe psychological and/or physical dependence. As the drug schedule changes-- Schedule II, Schedule III, etc., so does the abuse potential-- Schedule V drugs represents the least potential for abuse. A Listing of drugs and their schedule are located at Controlled Substance Act (CSA) Scheduling or CSA Scheduling by Alphabetical Order. These lists describes the basic or parent chemical and do not necessarily describe the salts, isomers and salts of isomers, esters, ethers and derivatives which may also be classified as controlled substances. These lists are intended as general references and are not comprehensive listings of all controlled substances.
Please note that a substance need not be listed as a controlled substance to be treated as a Schedule I substance for criminal prosecution. A controlled substance analogue is a substance which is intended for human consumption and is structurally or pharmacologically substantially similar to or is represented as being similar to a Schedule I or Schedule II substance and is not an approved medication in the United States. (See 21 U.S.C. ?802(32)(A) for the definition of a controlled substance analogue and 21 U.S.C. ?813 for the schedule.)

Schedule I​

Schedule I drugs, substances, or chemicals are defined as drugs with no currently accepted medical use and a high potential for abuse. Some examples of Schedule I drugs are:

heroin, lysergic acid diethylamide (LSD), marijuana (cannabis), 3,4-methylenedioxymethamphetamine (ecstasy), methaqualone, and peyote​

This is intended to be very broad in scope so that they can ban anything that is even remotely like amphetamine, cyclized or not.

The parent compound is 2-aminoindane. Here is the Psychonautwiki article on 2-AI: [/FONT][/COLOR]https://psychonautwiki.org/w/index.php?title=2-Aminoindane&_=

2-Aminoindane (2-AI) is a psychoactive drug and research chemical with stimulant properties. It is an analogue of amphetamine.^[1]

 

[JacksinPA]

Yeah, I have a lot of respect for Dr. Nutt but I think he is off on a wild goose chase with this "safer alcohol alternative." Frankly, there's a myriad of drugs already that are safer than and can replace alcohol, with the entire class of benzodiazepines being one of the most fitting examples. But even if you found a recreational drug with the exact same effects as alcohol, except that it didn't cause any kind of health problems in the long term, didn't lead to violence, didn't ever cause you to vomit or lose consciousness, and didn't ever lead to addiction, the governments of the world would still reflexively ban it as they do everything else that gets you high and hasn't been "grandfathered in" like alcohol. At best, it would be allowed as a maintenance drug for alcoholics, a la methadone or buprenorphine. Replacing recreational use of alcohol by 2050? That is a pipe dream if I've ever heard one.

The problem with benzos is that it is easy to develop total tolerance after long term use.

And he is talking 2030, not 2050.

This guy was a UK government adviser on designer drugs until he said that using MDMA was safer than riding a horse. Now he's not working for the U.K. any more.

 

[Limpet_Chicken]

Because he spoke the truth, and the government saw him as a thorn in their side, because of his insistence on using the scientific approach and invoking logic. Things which are anathema to government in the first place, and all the more so to lie-infested antidrug propagana, They had to have him IIRC, and didn't like it because they wanted someone who would just parrot their party line and back up the lies they seek to promulgate.

 

[JacksinPA]

Here is the reply I got from my UK contact who knows Dr. Nutt & his work:

I am sorry but I can’t help, as I do not know. Professor David Nutt has closely guarded the secret of the chemistry of his alcosynth products and I am not aware of any patents with his name on. 5-methoxy-2-aminoindane is likely to be one of the products (see attached for latest pharmacology paper), but it has not been officially confirmed? As I am sure you know, Nutt and Orren are directors of a company that is seeking investment: http://www.alcarelle.com/investment/4592491761 Of course, David may be pushing it through as a proposed medicine just to treat binge drinkers, but his wider agenda is very likely to promote a less harmful alcohol substitute for recreational use. With the latter there are huge hurdles to leap, not only in such products passing through trials (albeit likely), but opposition from the drinks industry and of course governments permitting such drugs for recreational purposes, even with trial success. Whatever, David Nutt, is indefatigable and I admire him greatly for his continued approach to rationalising drug harm – if alcohol was to be classified now amongst the other recreational drugs, it would be in the same category as heroin.

 

[Password:]

david nutt started my journey on to pharmcology, if you havent read, his book - drugs without all the hot air is a must read. some great info

 

[S.J.B.]

I read by '2030,' 12 years from now.

And he is talking 2030, not 2050.

I got 2050 from the article in the first post:

Nutt is confident that Alcosynth – which admittedly sounds a bit like a new romantic covers band – will have replaced alcohol entirely by 2050, but there are some tough obstacles in its way, from powerful alcohol companies to the absurd Psychoactive Substances Act introduced in the UK earlier this year.

This is intended to be very broad in scope so that they can ban anything that is even remotely like amphetamine, cyclized or not.

The parent compound is 2-aminoindane. Here is the Psychonautwiki article on 2-AI: [/FONT][/COLOR]https://psychonautwiki.org/w/index.php?title=2-Aminoindane&_=

2-Aminoindane (2-AI) is a psychoactive drug and research chemical with stimulant properties. It is an analogue of amphetamine.^[1]

The case law regarding what drugs are or are not analogues of other drugs, from the standpoint of the criminal law in Anglo countries, is very, very thin. In the U.S. there have been two notable cases that I am aware of, United States v. Forbes and United States v. Washam. In Forbes, a district court case, it was determined that alpha-ethyltryptamine is not an analogue of diethyltryptamine or dimethyltryptamine. In Washam, a judicial circuit case, it was determined that 1,4-butanediol is an analogue of GHB (gamma-hydroxybutyric acid, a.k.a. 4-hydroxybutanoic acid).

Canada has had fairly comprehensive analogue controls since at least 2002 (that's as far back as I can find previous versions of our drug laws) and as far as I am aware there has not been a single case with a published judgement where the status of a drug as a controlled substance analogue was at issue (although there are cases where the prosecution alleged that a substance was an analogue and this went unchallenged by the defence, presumably due to a lack of knowledge that this kind of allegation can and should be challenged).

I would be very interested to hear from Australian Bluelighters if they are aware of any Australian cases that hinge upon whether a substance is an analogue or not.

All this to say, from a legal standpoint, saying that aminoindanes "are" or "are not" controlled substance analogues is pretty much just speculation, the exception being in jurisdictions with Markush-type descriptions to define analogues (see below for an example of this type of analogue description, taken from the Canadian CDSA).

...any substance that has a 1-amino-2-phenylethane structure substituted at the 2’ and 5’ or 2’ and 6’ positions of the benzene ring by an alkoxy or haloalkoxy group, or substituted at two adjacent carbon atoms of the benzene ring which results in the formation of a furan, dihydrofuran, pyran, dihydropyran or methylenedioxy group — whether or not further substituted on the benzene ring to any extent, whether or not substituted at the amino group by one or two, or a combination of, methyl, ethyl, propyl, isopropyl, hydroxyl, benzyl (or benzyl substituted to any extent) or benzylene (or benzylene substituted to any extent) groups and whether or not substituted at the 2-ethyl (beta carbon) position by a hydroxyl, oxo or alkoxy group — and its salts and derivatives and salts of derivatives...

 

[Foreigner]

So is this like Synthahol from Star Trek?

It'll never see the light of day. The alcohol industry will send a hit man and destroy his lab before it can ever happen.

 

[Limpet_Chicken]

I can't imagine 2-AI analogs ever coming close to substituting for alcohol. 2-aminoindan, N-methyl-2-AI, etc. they are stimulants, and with a rough edge at that. I'm sure I could do a better job. (and rig up a few nasty surprises for the alcohol industry hitmen....maybe they might just 'accidentally' find themselves doused with the contents of a carefully made to be breakable large cylinder of white phosphorus as a saturated solution in carbon disulfide. Or covered in chromyl nitrate, iodine monochloride or any of the other friendly little surprises in a certain fridge of mine (no, it doesn't ever get used to contain food items, its dedicated to the purpose of storing THF, dried iPA, ethers, iodine containers to stop it subliming away, some iodine monochloride I made a while back, and god damn, ICl is vicious stuff, the way it has of setting things on fire on contact, disintegrating plastics, rusting stainless steel keck clips away to flakes of rust in just a matter of a day or so, or 15 minutes for plastic clips, if the clips got very, very lucky indeed to survive that long)

Big Alcohol would have a bad time messing around in this lab, and probably open the wrong bottle, immediately taking off their face or gassing them, or both