This issue hasn't been settled yet & I don't know what to do... (extreme insomnia)

[Bojangles69]

This issue hasn't been settled yet & I don't know what to do... (extreme insomnia)

I wrote about this a couple times before in different ways and last time I *thought I had fixed this problem but I have not because I have not slept in 3 days and I can not keep on living like this.

I HAVE been controlling my use of everything lately. Tapering my sub, even tapering my BP meds and now finally even my smoking. HOWEVER I am not doing any of this to a rate that has ever caused insomnia in the past. Like to get insomnia from opiates I either have to take a lot, or stop taking them completely. But small drops have never caused anything. So I severely doubt this insomia has anything to do with my tapering especially like I said I've tapered hundreds of times and have never got it like this before.

I am very convinced I am undergoing a drug interaction and have manipulated all my drugs in so many different ways and its not going away. There have been times where I've lowered my meds, than was able to sleep, and thought because of that it was my meds causing it, untill the insomnia came right back a few days later and I didn't even changed my dose again.

Theres just NO science to this. I should NOT have insomnia this serious and can not put a finger on it. I am more than anything suspecting its this shitty norvase causing it. But I can't just stop the norvase as I get horrible hotflashes (worse than opiates give me). I have managed to go several days w/out it and *thought my insomnia was improving, but this is just ridiculous. My doctor also does not know 100% specifically whats causing it.

The next thing I'm trying since I cant stop my norvase, is switching to a BP med I've taken before that gave me no issues whatsoever with insomnia. Thats cozaar but its too damn expensive to afford right now ($400 for 1 month supply w/out insurance I kid you not). I really think my hypertension is adding to it. Then the suboxone, then the norvase which slows down my metabolism and possibly causes a build up of sub in my blood.

I DON'T KNOW and its so hard to be sure whats causing it. But imagine this. Did not sleep for 2 days and was TIRED out of my fucking mind. Third night comes around and I'm *sure* I'm sleeping. I lay in bed all night falling in and out of consciousness and this is how it always happens. It takes like 2-3 hours to sleep right. Then I sleep for 30mins and am up for another 30mins. Then back to sleep then up for another 30mins. This is to give you a rough idea of what its like. Even the periods where I think I'm drifting off to sleep, its more like my brain becomes so tired it can't function, and I may even just be forgetting that I'm awake. The point is its a FUCKED FUCKING FEELING.

I am trying to hard to hold it together today I woke up to go to work and was not severely depressed, I realized its more medical than psychological but this is the first time I looked in the mirror at work and noticed under my eyes are literally turning gray/dark now. This is scaring me and I don't know what to do. I just hope I can figure this out really soon.

A few questions:

People who have taken sub for more than 2-3 months WHAT THE HELL happens to all the sub that does not get broken down in your body? Can it be that this isn't related to the BP meds and I'm just becoming poisoned by my subs? I just can't figure anything out anymore. I tapered from 6mg to 3mg now over the course of 2 months, and barely any change in insomna. I keep going back and forth with my norvase too.

Has anyone taking blood pressure/hypertension meds before? I heard norvase was one of the shittiest ones out there. I know it has a tendency to cause insomnia too but I thought it would be like sub insomnia which is not really that intense from what I was use to at least.

Man oh man I really don't know what to do. I'm fucking praying to god I can at least get some time of deep REM sleep tonight cause I'm begining to break down. I know I smoke too much, I know I eat too much salt... I know I drink too much caffiene and take suboxone and a shitty BP med but wtf. When I took fucking crystal meth 10 years ago I never had insomnia this severe. I just NEVER seem to crash where my body goes into deep sleep and is able to recuperate. Like I said when I sleep its not sleep. Its being awake and being so fucking tired at the same time where I just drift in and out of this shallow type of consciousness. Its so hard to explain.

I'm really considered in a week or 2 if I can't get the money to switch my norvase that I'm have to stop smoking, drinking any type of caffiene and maybe even start skipping days with dosing my sub. SOMETHING is going on where so many different factors are fucking with each other and my body that I feel like I need some drastic type of effort to solve this. This has been though about 3 months of very consistent extreme insomnia. I had I think 1 week in those 3 months where I think my sleep somewhat stablized for no real reason at all but then it was right back to this sleepless hell.

I JUST WANT TO SLEEP GOD WHY THE FUCK DO YOU ALWAYS GOTTA MAKE MY LIFE SO FUCKING DIFFICULT?!
This is precisely why I never go to church too. I'm 29 years old and have the biology of a 110 year old. Unpredictable, unstable... and when things go awry now I can't even figure out why the hell its happening.

I don't even give a fuck about addiction too anymore thats how serious this has become. Like being an addict pales in fucking comparison to this insomnia thing. Fuck if I could just go back to being an addict w/out this sleep shit I'd give my left testicle.

And no I don't need great answers to this I realize most of you will be as confused as me maybe say a prayer or something for me... idk I just want to sleep for once this is a true fucking nightmare.. god even a nightmare would be a blessing I don't think I have even had a dream in the last 5 years have never been a dreamer for w/e fucking reason... but I do dream when I'm awake lol. fucking sleep.

 

[Bojangles69]

Wow I have decided to do a ton of googling with the terms "hypertension and insomnia" and I'm learning that insomnia is more likely to cause hypertension than hypertension is likely to cause insomnia.

This gives me a different perspective on all this shit. And I'm begining to suspect this may be somewhat related to my thyroid. I've always eaten way too much salt (am not obese but thats really been worse than my smoking looking at all this objectively, I only smoke 1 pack a day but I eat a ton of salt in all my meals will dump that shit on its just a bad habit). And I'm wondering if all this years of salt is begining to throw off my thyroid. Am cutting out my salt intake 100% tommorow... I really think something is going on with my thyroid. Does anyone know anything about the thyroid? Can this be the cause? Literally just way too much salt on a daily basis?

edit: WOW I just read the symptom list for "adrenal fatigue" and I have EVERY SINGLE symptom to a T. This is incredible I have no idea wtf this crap is but this is literally what I have been experiencing everyday day in and day out for a long time now. Even the memory problems and allergies wtf!! Had no idea allergies were a symptom of this I never had them in my life till recently when everything else has been getting worse. Runny nose all day long now. This is definitely whats going on now I just gotta find out how to stop it..

 

[Dave]

I've had brushes with insomnia, but I couldn't imagine having it that bad. I take it that you're doing good sleep hygiene practices, like only using your bed for sleep (or sex), not staying in bed if you can't sleep for more than a half hour, having a good 20 minutes of 'quiet time' sitting in a dim or fully dark room to get into the right frame of mind (and get a bit of that natural melatonin going)? There are others, but that's the basic list; you're doing all that, yes?

The only other thing that I could suggest is no computer monitor/television for an hour before bed. And especially avoiding the same if you get out of bed because you can't sleep. The bright light of the monitor tricks the brain into thinking that it's day out. Oh, and also: try to exhaust yourself physically during the day. For me, running, bodyweight resistance and yoga work well for helping to get to sleep.

I wish that I had better advice for you, but as you've likely figured from my posts I'm more on the non-pharmaceutical solution to problems kind of guy. Best of luck to you, and if you're not doing the above, maybe give it a try?

 

[Bojangles69]

Yeh thanks Dave I'm begining to realize that I am in full blown adrenal fatigue this has nearly made me shat my pants reading about this.
Its from all around not giving a shit about my health. I just can not explain how much I can identify with this and even the things they say that leads to adrenal fatigue. I live on caffiene/salt/nicotine. Have ALWAYS had problems waking up in the morning. Issues with blood sugar and blood pressure. ALWAYS feel groggy which is why I take stims in the morning (sub, coffee, cig) and I don't feel properly awake ever will 3-5pm. Allergies, runny nose, always feel worn out but can never sleep. Always feel better after meals but only eat once a day usually around 9pm when I get home from work.

I am seriously fucking up my endocrine balance this is EXACTLY whats going on. There is not a single symptom I don't fit. I take pharmaceuticals, I've always had hypertension, hotflashes, problems dealing with stress. WOW I just can't believe what I've done to myself over the years. Even stopped working out about a year ago I'm sure thats what really set it off this past year.

I'm so happy I found out about this illness I've heard about it before but never had any idea what it was. I have classic adrenal fatigue to a t. I need to start paying attention to my all around health. And thats exactly what I'm doing. Thanks a lot Dave I'm just so happy I found this out and knowing all the things that set it off (all bad habits/things I naturally do) I'm just going to stop doing them. I also don't like turning to meds for everything but I've been addicted to opiates for a while and habits have been getting worse over the years so its hard. But now that I see I'm genuinely throwing off my endocrine balance I'm putting an end to all this unhealthy shit I can see clearly its having a serious effect on my body.

 

[effie]

I'm so sorry you are having so many problems with insomnia.. I've had spells of it (barely slept for a week at one point) and it starts to self-perpetuate after a while - you almost become too tired to sleep, and you are worrying so much about it (and about your health too i imagine in your case..)

Sleep hygiene is so important, as Dave said! Also, meditation can really help as you learn to empty your mind, which makes sleep come so much more easily.. it's definitely worth looking into, if you haven't tried it yet.. that, combined with exercising and getting some natural daylight, have often helped me in the past.

As for the thyroid thing - excessive iodised salt intake can occasionally cause problems with the thyroid, but there is no way of us being able to tell over the internet, same with the adrenal stuff (and beware self-diagnosing over the net, it's so easy to do and so easy to be wrong, plus there is a lot of misinformation out there!) but it is definitely something to discuss with your doctor - to put your mind at rest if nothing else.

Good luck

 

[Bojangles69]

Thank you everyone so much I haven't cried in a long time but I cried tonight after about an hour of doing nothing but reading symptoms of adrenal fatigue.

Morning fatigue -- You don't really seem to "wake up" until 10 a.m., even if you've been awake since 7 a.m.
Afternoon "low" (feelings of sleepiness or clouded thinking) from 2 to 4 p.m.
Burst of energy at 6 p.m. -- You finally feel better from your afternoon lull.
Sleepiness at 9 to 10 p.m. -- However, you resist going to sleep.
"Second wind" at 11 p.m. that lasts until about 1 a.m., when you finally go to sleep.
Cravings for foods high in salt and fat
Increased PMS or menopausal symptoms
Mild depression
Lack of energy
Decreased ability to handle stress
Muscular weakness
Increased allergies
Lightheadedness when getting up from a sitting or laying down position
Decreased sex drive
Frequent sighing
Inability to handle foods high in potassium or carbohydrates unless they're combined with fats and protein


Learn more: http://www.naturalnews.com/019339.html#ixzz1brIksDF2

I also have other symptoms not mentioned like tons of white hairs all over my body, dry thinning skin, receding hairline, decreased sex drive, depression, a general gray feeling all day. But what gets me the most is the fluctuations in energy levels throughout the day and how accurate the timeline above is that I found. I go through that exact sequence every single day now for a few years and never really realized what it was. The extreme brain fog and tiredness in mornings. Then I crash around 2-3pm and feel like I have to sleep. Than around 6-7pm I become extremely hyper and am all over the place running back and forth. Then I get tired at 9-10pm but have never went to sleep. And get that final burst of energy late at night between 11-2pm at which point I can't sleep.

I HAVE ADRENAL FATIGUE I am 100% sure of it. There is literally not one symptom I don't have.

I can't tell you all how much this means to me that I know this is actually a disorder and can be fixed. And I would also go as far as saying that I started using opiates BECAUSE of this problem. I was always tired in the mornings when I was sober and opiates were the only thing that could get me going. Same thing now. To find out that was adrenal fatigue just really shakes my whole reality up. I was literally self medicating cause of how bad they must be functioning.

This means so many things to me I can't even explain. Now if I fix this problem it will make it soo much easier to stop using opiates. I am going to go see a specialist that only deals with this problem. The allergies and bloating, everything is just spot on to a T. I almost wanna cry thats how relieved I am I have been dealing with these symptoms and ignoring them at the same time for years now. And I'm also positive this is the reason for my insomnia and the reason manipulating my meds hasn't done anything for it.

FUCK I feel saved for once in my life. I'm not depressed, I'm not an anxious person, I'm not fucked and I wasn't just delt a bad hand in life. I'm just extremely ignorant about my health like a lot of people are. But that IS IT. Am throwing away all my caffienated beverages tommorow, all my sugary drinks, cutting down my nicotine maybe even I can quit once this new ambition really starts to role. I am so fucking motivated to fix this because for so long I just haven't known whats wrong. I just can't explain how happy I am right now I can't thank you all enough.

 

[theseeker]

Hey Bo- I've had a hell of a time with finding the right BP medicine. I've taken Ca2+ channel blockers (like norvasc), and Angiotensin receptor blockers and both of these were kind of shitty. The Ca2+ blocker made my feet swell up (boooo!) and the receptor blockers made me feel so flush and sweaty, I just had to stop. Finally, I'm on an ACE inhibitor with a diuretic (lisinopril/HCTZ). I've been on it for over a year now and it's been pretty much side effect free. ACE inhibitors give some people a bad cough and headaches. I have developed headaches lately, so I might be starting to feel some side effects (after a year???). I hate having to take this shit and the annoying process involved in finding one that won't make you feel fucked up, so I feel you.

 

[Dave]

I'm glad that I've pointed you in a direction that you think is helpful, but remember that you can't diagnose yourself with something like this. There are specific endocrine tests that need to be taken, and certain criteria that need to be met before you can be classified and treated. Now, I think that from what you've said you really need to see a doctor post haste to get these tests done, just to confirm what's going on. Keep in mind that most doctors won't likely have heard of this illness, and if they have it may still be an uphill battle to get diagnosed. My mum only discovered that she may have an issue in that direction once the top endocrinologist in Western Canada got hold of her chart. Her GP kept trying to give her antidepressants. Seriously. The guy was useless.

Also keep in mind that it is a managed illness, and the management bit is taking cortisone in some form or other, which has a ton of other side effects. If you think that this may be something to be explored, you need to have a good, frank discussion with your doctor about getting the tests done, and then if they come back as low, then you need to discuss being forwarded to an endocrinologist, as a GP likely won't have the background needed for such an uncommon and difficult to manage illness.

Good luck to you, sir.

 

[Bojangles69]

Thanks theseeker I appreciate that. BP meds are definitely not clean pretty meds so far from what I've experienced. I've never even heard of ACE inhibitors so I'm going to mention that to my dr next time I see him thanks.

Anyway so I went to the dr today and told him about everything and he agrees based on what I said that it sounds like adrenal fatigue syndrome. He also estimated by my symptoms that I'm in stage3 adrenal fatigue as I have hotflashes on a daily basis no matter what meds I'm on. We did some blood work today so its still not official but there is nothing else I can really put my finger on and like I said I have every single symptom listed under this disorder.

So last night I got really fed up and said fuck it and decided to binge on about 2lbs of fruits and vegetables. Carrots, spinach, corn, baby potatoes, an apple, piece of honey dew than a cup of beans for protien. Now get this. This morning I wake up and am NOT TIRED AT ALL. Not only did I sleep but apparently had some type of deep REM sleep. No brain fog which I have been having consistently now for years. And no hotflashes at all (till after I got off work and realized I hadn't eaten in 8 hours, not eating literally gives me intense hotflashes now thats how bad its got). I have been taking sleeping meds for years, stims in the morning, all types of various things and this entire time I haven't realized how severely malnourished I've been.

Its embarassing to say cause I use to be a health freak many years ago but I likely haven't eat a vegetable in over a year. I have had some fruits but just no real vegetable intake whatsoever. I am reading this is one of the main things that can trigger adrenal fatigue. Your body becomes so unbalances that your adrenal glands stop producing certain essential hormones.. and so far this is the only thing I can think of that would be creating such extreme insomnia. There still can be something that is being caused by the BP meds, but its become quiet obvious over the last 24 hours that I have just been living in a state of severe malnourishment.

I also cut out salt and sugar intake although I did have a coffee with stevia today and am still smoking. But I will start with diet first and will save smoking/caffiene till my taste buds adjust to this new change and then eventually I plan on switching from coffee to some type of l-tyro/l-taurine/fermented spirulina/stevia mix. Will likely mix in acai and berries too fuck coffee.

Onces the blood tests come back that will just confirm everything but I'm not waiting for that confirmation to make the lifestyle changes. I was such a fucking wreck yesterday I can't even explain what its like. Hot flashes, snot coming out of my nose every 5 minutes, eyes dry as fuck and itchy, weird skin rashes on my skin, extreme fatigue and stimulation as the same time, then like 20 other symptoms that all align with adrenal fatigue.

Anyway moral of the story is drugs can fuck a person up but not eating a healthy diet can fuck a person up worse than drugs apparently. This has blown my mind because as much as I know about food and nutrition I don't understand how I let things get this bad. No more fast food, no more processed refined bs is going into my tummy anymore. No redmeats I even wanna try and stay away from chicken unless its organic from now on. My new diet will be light protien foods like fish/eggs/beans/organic chicken or turkey, steamed veggies with no salt added, then fruits for desert or at night for a reward.

NO MORE FAST FOOD NO MORE JUNKFOOD NO MORE SHIT PERIOD!
My body is fighting back and this is not a joke to me anymore. I'm 29 years old its time to start acting like it. And THANK YOU so much once again BL if it wasn't for this site I wouldn't even have ever heard of adrenal fatigue and god if this got any worse who knows what it could have led too.

 

[Bojangles69]

Ok so a final update I have finally gotten my sleep back!! I have posted so many times about this problem in so many different ways over the last few years I can not explain how HAPPY I have been to finally figure this all out.

I am working with a doctor and he said he has delt with adrenal fatigue before. First thing he said was a thorough colon cleanse would make me feel a lot better. People with adrenal fatigue tend to each too much animal protien and not enough veggies so today I had 3 glasses of metamucil, and 2 veggie shakes loaded with leafy veggies/carrots/etc. God people I just can't explain how much better I'm already feeling. Although it takes 6-12months for my glands to start stablizing and for me to see the real health benefit in 2 days already my health feels like its done 180 degree turn.

And I have been sleeping like a baby FINALLY.


THANKS AGAIN BL!!

And PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE if you do *NOT* eat your veggies you weaken your entire body. Get 3 servings a day and no less. Veggies strengthen your immune system, your heart, your kidneys, your adrenal glands, oxygenate your blood, MAKE YOU HUNGRY, give you a stronger sex drive, allow you to sleep better. I just can't believe how powerful veggies are in the body and all the crap I'm reading they do. Its obvious I was just deficient in them for so many years that my adrenal glands were begining to exhaust as they had no nutrients or minerals to keep my hormones stable and in check. This is ALSO the reason I have been getting hotflashes now for about 3 years and they have never gone away on matter how many opiates I do. I actually thought that symptom was 100% opiate related but it had everything to do with my sodium/potassium/magnesium levels. My blood pressure too and this stage 2 hypertension I was diagnosed with a couple years back. These are ALL being caused by the adrenal fatigue.

After this experience I don't plan on going vegan but for now on I am eating 80% veggies and only 20% animal protien. Although I still plan on getting most my protien from beans.

Anyway moral of the story is:

PEOPLE PLEASE EAT YOUR FUCKING VEGETABLES & DO NOT BE STUPID LIKE ME!!!!

 

[Dave]

Heh, I'm incredibly relieved that you were able to find such a simple solution to your troubles Bo. Truer words were never said: EAT YOUR FUCKING VEGETABLES!

I don't know if you guys call a different amount a 'serving' down there, but up here the recommended minimum is 5. I would go one step further and say that the bulk of the food that one eats in a day should be brightly coloured plant matter (more veg than fruit), as much organic as is practical, and at least half of that being greens. Dark green leafy veg, like spinach, collard, mustard greens, beet greens, kale, and the like, are so incredibly healthy. Do that, and drink plenty of fresh water, and you'll be well on your way to a wonderfully healthy body.

 

[xxsicknessxx]

I take subs too, I don't sleep either. Here is some stuff to help.

I cut my smoking back from 3 packs to 1. I quit drinking coffee at all. I cut back on energy drinks from 8 a day to 2. I drink more water and eat much better. I eat plenty of protein. I don't eat before sleep or watch tv or drink lots of water. I never give up sleeping. Even though I wake up every 30min and some times I zone out like you (where I don't sleep but forget im awake) I except it as rest and think it does some good. I will stay up for 30min but I go right back to bed not giving up until 8am. I try to nap during the day, closing my eyes covering them with a scarf and putting ear plugs in helps A TON. ear plugs and covering my eyes is a super secret. And when I know I have lots a few days sleep I will go ahead and take a sleeping pill but never more then two a day. Also try different positions when sleeping, make sure your cozy. Do you do drugs? or did you used to? Never drink to sleep or take things every night. You gotta cold turkey it some nights. Also take your subs at night and I save 2mg to snort during the middle of the night to help put me back to bed. It works for me. It takes a lot of work but you can train your self to sleep.. you can. I used to sleep like 1-2 hours a night, it was horrible. Now even though I wake up a lot I get a good 5-7 hours of sleep. I go to bed sometimes at 7pm and being tired has nothing to do with sleeping for me. I don't sleep because I am tired I sleep because its time to sleep.

 

[Alex000]

Good you're feeling better, otherwise I'd suggest upping your sub dose to 6 mg as it was originally, and maybe adding a low dose benzo round the clock to help you "deal" and sleep better.