This is incontrovertible proof that God is evil. God does not live by his own golden

[Ninae]

I wasn't trying to shut this discussion down. I just pointed out that it wasn't started for that debate and said I'm sick of all threads turning into the same argument. But that's just my personal opinion, and you're all welcome to use this thread in any way you like.

The only thing I've been trying to say is that there should be allowed to have threads for discussing and sharing spiritual ideas on a spiritual forum without them ALL being turned into the spiritual'/materialist argument, which makes them pretty pointless for those coming here looking for spiritual ideas.

It doesn't seem too much to ask that part of this board could be used for actually discussing spirituality, but it looks like even a few threads is too much with the way Willow has been wailing and complaining about it.

So I guess most of you don't want to take part in spiritual discussions out of solidarity for Willow, and I also don't see any point in starting any more spiritual discussions.

Maybe Ziiirp is right, and a spiritual board separate from the philosophical board isn't such a bad idea, because this can't be very inspirering for anyone to read.

 

[Xorkoth]

It's probably not a bad idea at all actually, not sure if it will happen but I could float the idea. I think probably not since the total amount of traffic would be even lower for each forum than it is for this forum.

The thing is that any topic should be able to be open to discussion. There are probably places on the Internet where everyone is going to agree, but the cool thing about here is that there are people of all sorts of backgrounds with all sorts of beliefs discussing things.

I do agree that sometimes discussions get shut down in here by one group or another. Sometimes people should just leave something alone. But sometimes it's entirely appropriate and interesting to interject with counterpoints. I mean where does it end? No one is allowed to post anything disagreeing with the initial point being made in a thread? Sounds boring and one-sided. If not that, then how does one determine when it's appropriate and when not? One way is perhaps if the creator of a thread requests in the OP that the discussion be limited to, say, those who believe in god, because the discussion is not about whether god exists or not. I'd say that's a fine thing to do. But if it's not your thread, then it's not really up to you whether or not to restrict the discussion.

Above all else, if people would stop taking disagreement as a personal attack, that would be pretty cool and would save a lot of frustration for everyone.

 

[Gnostic Bishop]

God is the one who's all holy and all good. Like the scriptures say God is all light and in him there is no darkness. While everyone else are a mixture of light and darkness and working their way up.

Evil was created by beings deciding to create outside of God and him allowing them the freedom to do that. God isn't breaking the golden rule. Humans break the golden rule and he's allowing us to for reasons of his own.

I'm afraid you're badly confused. Are you feeling okay?

I am thinking a lot better than you are, that is for sure.

You say that someone other than God created evil, yet your dogma also says that evil was first found in heaven in Satan even before man was created. If God did noit put evil in Satan, where did it come from? We are you saying was God's co-creator before man was even born?

You say God does not break the golden rule when killing us when he can just as easily cure us.

Does God want to be killed when he could be cured? That would have to be the case if your statement was correct.

Regards
DL

This is just a misunderstanding of Christian scripture.

Yet you do not correct my misunderstanding.

Seems you would rather reply with the hate in your heart than the love.
Proverbs 3:12 For whom the Lord loveth he correcteth; evenas a father the son in whom he delighteth.

That or you cannot refute what I put, which is more likely.
Regards
DL

If all emanated from God, then evil had to come from God.

Regards
DL

"Evil is the result of what happens when man does not have God's love present in his heart".

Was evil in the hearts of all the babies and children God is shown to have killed instead of cured in scriptures?

Yes, that sums it up well. You would almost have to be wilfully retarted to believe that God is responsible for evil.

Or willfully intellectually disonant to ignore scriptures that say God created evil as well as everything else.

God created nature and all the beauty and goodness in it. Humans, and as a consequence animals, chose to create outside of that.

So from the great beauty that God produced, including humans, went all to hell.

What does that tell you about this quote?

Deuteronomy32:4 He is the Rock, his work is perfect:

Anyway, you can't use Jesus to show that God is evil. His whole work was to glorify God and bring out the love of God. I think all our suffering is a result of creating against God and it just shows us the consequences of that.

That is your view while I see Jesus preaching against God and the religions of the day that dared speak for a God they could not possibly know.

Regards
DL

How does God kill? If you're talking about natural disasters we're just as much to blame. Buildings too high, too close to the ocean, live in tornado alley.

God is shown to kill in a variety of ways. The great flood, the first born of Egypt and even torturing King David's baby for 6 days before finally killing it.

Have you read the bible?

If so, how could you not have seen all the killing?

Regards
DL

God is the king of the earth and heaven, creator of the universe.

Are you saying that the temptation of Jesus was a lie as Satan did not have the dominion scriptures say Satan had to tempt Jesus with?

Your argument is satanic sophistry. The devil is controlling your mind. The enemy does nothing but lie, to keep man away from God.

If so then Satan also controls you as your own scriptures say that Satan can deceive the whole world.

I encourage you to come to Jesus and be baptised in His name. There's not much time, He's coming back soon...

Why would you want me to take your immoral position by placing my responsibility for my own actions onto the shoulders of an innocent man?

Having another innocent person suffer for the wrongs youhave done, --- so that you might escape responsibility for having done them,--- is immoral.
You will not agree with that truth as you do not care about morals and just care that your sky daddy will let you into heaven even though you have sold your soul to Satan to try to get into heaven while riding your scapegoat Jesus.

This Bishop would likely curse you for helping to kill Christianity.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jKNup9gEBdg&feature=em-subs_digest-vrecs

Do change your satanic ways my friend.

Regards
DL

There's truth in that. We're all influenced to some extent by that energy, I think. It works in many different subtle ways.

I think the most subtle but most proliferate and influential, is our amazing ability to find faults in others.

Indeed and one of the worst and immoral manifestations our friend has fallen for by not stepping up to his own responsibility for his own sins the way scriptures say he should.
Ezekiel 18:20 The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The sonshall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear theiniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, andthe wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.

DEuteronomy 24:16 (ESV) "Fathers shall not be put todeath because of their children, nor shall children be put to death because oftheir fathers. Each one shall be put to death for his own sin.

Ezekiel 18:20 (ESV) The soul who sins shall die. The sonshall not suffer for the iniquity of the father, nor the father suffer for theiniquity of the son. The righteousness of the righteous shall be upon himself,and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon himself.

Regards
DL

Perhaps not a personal God as described by Christianity, but not even God in the cosmic sense? The typical psychedelic mystical experience where one merges with the white light, "the source". Have you had this experience?

God in the sense of everything that is larger than human comprehension. As the definition of the word "mystical".

My mother describes a similar experience when she has the communion in church. This is one example which could lend credence to the possibility that the drugs only trigger certain biological mechanisms and allow for what I call the "God response". There are many accounts of saints and such having spontaneous white light experiences. Of course they then apply their knowledge of Christianity to it and assume that is the source of it. I think the same thing would happen in another culture where the recipient would apply their local religious teachings to the experience. That's what happened to my brother.

As far as I understand it, yoga, Buddhism, Hinduism etc. are designed to in fact induce these white light experiences without the aid of drugs. Psychedelics just allow immediate access. Temporary enlightenment, if you will.

Many spiritual people have some type of experience as they are God seekers who have their minds opened to such. The religious seldom do as their God is up there somewhere and not within themselves which is where oneness originates.


The spiritual will have access to apotheosis. The religious will not because they are idol worshipers.

Regards
DL

 

[Gnostic Bishop]

Damn dude, that is a great point! I don't believe any of that bible stuff, but if I did...god violates the golden rule.

Thanks for a good and honest reply which are not common. Christians especially are not good at such replies.

Regards
DL

How did you even come to the conclusion he can heal. Does even God have limits?

Not according to dogma and that same dogma as expressed by the golden rule is not what God is working with.

Regards
DL

in a way it does. in a very real sense colors aren't colors until they're seen.

alasdair

A breath of fresh logic and reason. How nice.

The same could be said of God.

Regards
DL

well being an atheist is pretty smooth because you don't constantly feel like your life is run by some weird demons and entities and shit

Indeed. Staying in reality instead of losing logic and reason for fantasy and the supernatural is the way to go.

Regards
DL

^Yeah but you're gonna go to hell.

Have you seen this clip?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SF6I5VSZVqc

Why do you believe lies about things of the supernatural type that no one can prove to be true?

Regards
DL

I see our minds as a network of reality generators, so whatever it is we are thinking, becomes reality eventually, hence we gotta be careful about what we think.
In my opinion, God needs to be discovered personally. It happens in a lot of ways but until this moment comes that person knows nothing about God. I think most of the life forms will only be able to come in contact with a higher state entity only after their physical death, there are exception however. Logic is useless when you ponder such concepts because our logic is limited by our memory and thinking ability, so we can only make fun of the concept of God or try to make ourselves look better and higher than everyone else and God itself by using mind on it's own.

Given the morals of the Western Gods on offer, it is not hard to be higher than God. Few here would stop to using genocide and killing when we could just as easily cure.

You sound rather Gnostic in your thinking.

Have you seen these quotes that the church never uses?

They speak to some of what you posted.
Matthew 6:22 The light of the body is the eye: if thereforethine eye be single, thy whole body shall be full of light.

John 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man loveme, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come untohim, and make our abode with him.

Romans 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinateto be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn amongmany brethren.

While here. Let me load you up.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_9QI3nlinYQ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vJ1PDxeUynA

Regards
DL

Respect those who are seeking the truth; be doubtful of those who claim they have found it.

A wise saying and part of why we Gnostic Christians are perpetual seekers the way Jesus taught we should all be.

Even after apotheosis, a Gnostic Christian will set aside the God he found, raise the bar of excellence, and seek anew. That is how we evolve God and that has taken a back seat for a long time thanks to Christian and Muslims idol worshiping their so called Gods and growing theuir religions by the sword instead of good deeds.

Regards
DL

God is just like us.... he is everything, the ying and the yang.... but the way the human mind percieves God is by personifying his different attributes into separate entities... this makes it easier to understand his many traits.... and to help steer us in the direction we'd rather pursue... if you like the darker attributes, sex drugs rock n roll , violence , self-absorbed pleasure seeking, than you are essentially friends with the devil.... if you are seeking a fresh start , renewal and rebirth... than Jesus can help you find peace within yourself. . if you are trying to build a life of righteous organized glory, than Elohim can help you achieve your desires as long as you worship him with all your heart and follow his commandments. .

The devil if for those who believe that nothing is off limits and wish to find pleasure by any means necessary.... hell is symbolic... if you keep sinning than your existence will persist to become a living "hell on earth" ... and probably will go on for an eternity as you will keep making htose decisions once you start down that path.

its like the bible says, to find God , look within... because God , the universe , and everything is written into your makeup, its within and you will feel it when you find it there. We are all creators, we create our own meaning, we create our own kingdoms right here on earth... live in the present , and don't worry about punishment.... You will judge yourself in the end, so all the really matters is how YOU feel about YOU... because you are basically God in the end, you've just forgotten... You have much more power than you realize.

I like most of this as it resonates as Gnostic teachings but what on earth would drive you to promote Elohim, a genocidal son murdering God, as help to think about anything?

Regards
DL

 

[Gnostic Bishop]

To prove that god is good or evil or anything, you would first have to prove the existence of "god". So you might want to start with that.

Why bother with what has been debated for 5,000 with 0 results?

I prefer to educate Christians about what their God really is if they are to believe their bible.

In questions of morality, a logic and reason trail can usually be formed to an end game if you have honest participants, while debating Gods existence has no end game.

Martin Luther. “Faith must trample underfoot all reason, sense, and understanding.”
“Reason is a whore, thegreatest enemy that faith has.”

Regards
DL

I don't know why we bother giving GB the time of day, anyway, who's obviously a propaganda artist who's probably posting the same message across multiple boards.

Now you have something against freedom of speech and association. Why am I not surprised.

Regards
DL

It does ring some alarm bells. Still, he has a different perspective which is refreshing.

Thank.

Almost anything is better than the swill that Christians discuss.

Regards
DL

Funny how he just posts an opening post and doesn't return and never engages in any of the other threads. I don't know if "refreshing" is the right word. It's direly predictable, in fact, it's pretty much the same post. I find it weird how he's even allowed to post here.

This from you who ran away from a moral discussion on God and the golden rule and tried to deflect even in your first post, while saying later that you like debate. Pffft.

Let's debate then.

Is it more moral to kill instead of cure or is it more moral to cure instead of killing?

Who would kill instead of cure. I say Satan.
Who would cure, instead of kill, I say God would if he were good.

God does not cure and is thus evil.

Let's have your argument or agreement instead of your usual garbage.

Regards
DL

 

[Shrooms00087]

So you're reading the Bible literally? Interesting.

 

[Gnostic Bishop]

So you're reading the Bible literally? Interesting.

I don't know why.

How else should I have written the O.P. since it is literalists Christians which I wish to engage?

Regards
DL

 

[Shrooms00087]

Well typically literalists have "reason by faith alone". So even they circumvent you circumventing God.

 

[Xorkoth]

Perhaps that is the point attempting to be made?

 

[swilow]

I largely agree, the Christian god is evil. He has not bought good. Thankfully, he doesn't exist. All the evil is really just Mother Nature laughing as we eat each other.

 

[Gnostic Bishop]

I largely agree, the Christian god is evil. He has not bought good. Thankfully, he doesn't exist. All the evil is really just Mother Nature laughing as we eat each other.

A lot of truth here.

Regards
DL

 

[neurotic]

All the evil is really just Mother Nature laughing as we eat each other.

You know, I say the same all the time... I imagine you worded it that particular way for poetic effect, and believe, like me, that in effect the universe is plainly aloof, ignorant of us; events meaningless/random/whatever.

Though I do remark at our choice of words here. Do you agree with me that the same idea could've been captured by, idk e.g. "mother nature is just a toddler playing with the insects on the garden"?

You see what I'm hinting at. Overreading a bit on what you said:
I find that it is hard not to ascribe a human character to the universe (or everything really), as if it was a primitive, essentially human tendency. I also believe that this is where the God idea comes from of course. I've always been atheistic though also aware of that part of me. It didn't bother me so I had no quarrels with being a bit superstitious. And I just would like to note that I don't find this at all contradictory. In any case I hadn't however up until recently noticed that indeed I (more precisely, "that part of me") had ascribed a benevolent attitude to the universe, something which allowed me to remain with an optimistic outlook on things in spite of "rough times". Persistent events over the course of the past two years (of the kind the religious would say that "tested my faith") however seem to have changed this, and to the detriment of my mental health. It goes without saying that I believe that even though we can be to some extent rational sometimes our emotions get the best of us and there's nothing we can do (otherwise I think I would have already managed to quit smoking).

So I am interested into your and anyone else's that could be lumped into the atheistic, agnostic, skeptic category ((a) I am using these labels loosely and only for practical purposes; and (b) emphasising: I apply here, this is not a challenge) thoughts on this. Do you also have that hint of superstition inside of you? With all other people of this kind with whom I talked to about this, we could both agree that it was still there, regardless. What do we do about it?

I thought of starting a whole new thread (and perhaps my post looks like it is phrased for that purpose) on this but since it was all prompted by what you said...