• Philosophy and Spirituality
    Welcome Guest
    Posting Rules Bluelight Rules
    Threads of Note Socialize
  • P&S Moderators: JackARoe | Cheshire_Kat

There must be a Creator

Lackasham

Bluelighter
Joined
Dec 6, 2013
Messages
178
Putting my religious beliefs aside, I am 100% convinced there must be a creator of some sort. Humans, animals, really anything living is proof to me. Here are the things that convince me of this

1) the fact that we live in an environment perfect for our survival
2) the complexity of the human body and it's processes
3) the spark of life

What causes something to live? A person is just a ratio of certain elements why can we not replicate it scientifically? Answer IMO: Creator
 
Putting my religious beliefs aside, I am 100% convinced there must be a creator of some sort. Humans, animals, really anything living is proof to me. Here are the things that convince me of this

1) the fact that we live in an environment perfect for our survival
2) the complexity of the human body and it's processes
3) the spark of life

What causes something to live? A person is just a ratio of certain elements why can we not replicate it scientifically? Answer IMO: Creator

So how come on Venus and other planets, the surface temperature is un-inhabitable? Did God get it wrong there and had to try billions of times to come up with a planet like Earth? God doesn't get things wrong. He is all mighty and all knowing.

What is your religion brother? Christian, Muslim?
 
I have never really considered the other planets before that is an interesting point. God doesn't get things wrong so maybe other planets are a challenge, a frontier we are meant to discover, something for us to do. Or maybe they are a lesson that we are lucky for the conditions we are given.

Also I am a Christian!
 
I have never really considered the other planets before that is an interesting point. God doesn't get things wrong so maybe other planets are a challenge, a frontier we are meant to discover, something for us to do. Or maybe they are a lesson that we are lucky for the conditions we are given.

Also I am a Christian!

So you believe that Jesus is God right? That the trinity is Father, Son and Holy Spirit?
 
Correct sir. The Son is God, The Father is God, The Spirit is God being all one but separate entities
 
Correct sir. The Son is God, The Father is God, The Spirit is God being all one but separate entities

Where is this mentioned in the Bible? I'm an atheist at the moment but, I keep an open mind, so if you can show me a single unequivocal statement from the Bible where Jesus himself says "I am God" or "worship me" I'm willing to become a practicing Christian. Today :)
 
Although I do not believe Jesus ever actually says either of those exact phrases he does reveal himself as God. John 10:30 is a good example if that as Jesus says "I and the Father are one." In another verse, John 8:58, Jesus says "before Abraham was, I AM" I AM being the name God called himself in an Old Testament story in Exodus.

Although Jesus never specifically say the words "I am God" does he have to? You don't have to say "I play football" for people to know you play football. Phrases such as "football practice was hard today" or "Did you see that touchdown I scored?" Get across the same point.

I hope you begin practicing Christianity today! Another person saved is always a great thing ?
 
^ Correct! Brother quoted 2 verses, one from John 10:30 and another one from John 8:58. I'll answer John 10:30 first because the questions are very hard, and I'll answer the other one after:

John 10:24 The Jews who were there gathered around him, saying, “How long will you keep us in suspense? If you are the Messiah, tell us plainly.”
John 10:25: Jesus answered, “I did tell you, but you do not believe. The works I do in my Father’s name testify about me,
John 10:26: but you do not believe because you are not my sheep.
John 10:27: My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me.
John 10:28: I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand.
John 10:29: My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all[c]; no one can snatch them out of my Father’s hand.
John 10:30: I and the Father are one.
John 10:31: Again his Jewish opponents picked up stones to stone him
John 10:32: but Jesus said to them, “I have shown you many good works from the Father. For which of these do you stone me?”
John 10:33: “We are not stoning you for any good work,” they replied, “but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God.”
John 10:34: Jesus answered them, “Is it not written in your Law, ‘I have said you are “gods”’[d]?
John 10:35: If he called them ‘gods,’ to whom the word of God came—and Scripture cannot be set aside—


The verse is there in the Bible, but what is the context? No Christian so far was able to give me the context, you can attempt brother, after I give the context you can say if it's right or wrong:

John 10:24 The Jews are alleging that Jesus speaks ambiguously, that he is afraid to reveal his true identity. That's the charge, and I will explain why it is a false charge. But the Jews didn't like Jesus much, him calling them a wicked and adulterous generation in Matthew 16:4, fools...SNAKES! They wanted to give Jesus a little bashing. So Jesus says why? "My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all". God seeked for his will to be done and Jesus did the same thing so in purpose they were one "I and the Father are one."

Then in John 10:33, the Jews make another false charge, that Jesus claims to be God. The Christians agree with the Jews, the say he did make such a claim but he was entitled to it. He was entitled. But really? Let's look at what Jesus says next: “Is it not written in your Law, ‘I have said you are “gods”’ The Law here means the Torah. YEE ARE GODS. If God calls them Gods, the persons to whom the word of God came, then the prophets are called Gods in our language.

God speaks onto Moses and says in EXODUS 7:1: "Behold, I have made you as God to Pharaoh". Was Moses God? And in the book of Psalms 82:6: "I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High." That's the Jewish language. When a person is called God he is not God! 2 Chorentians 4:4: "and the Devil is the God of this world" Is he God? The Devil? Is the Devil God? Of course not! It just means the Devil is in control. It's the Jewish language, remember that the Bible was translated!

Moses is God onto Pharaoh and Jews are all Gods! It's the Jewish language! Jesus doesn't understand where he actually claimed he was God and tells them, if God calls you Gods, and the scripture cannot be broken, then where's the problem? Accusing him of blaspheming because he said he was the son of God? It's nothing! God has sons by the ton in the Bible. Abraham is the son of God, Adam is the son of God, everyone bound by the spirit of God are sons of God. No problem. So why are the Jews trying to find trouble with him when he says he's the son of God? When others are called Gods?
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Now answering John 8:58: “Very truly I tell you,” Jesus answered, “before Abraham was born, I am!

And like brother accurately pointed out that "I AM" eheye ashar eheye, was an expression used by God before Moses when Moses climbed up the mountain to go to the sacred grounds so the question is why would Jesus use words that God used to describe himself? "I AM" means I am, whatever I am eheye ashar eheye, don't bother too much about who sent you, just say that I sent you. Someone comes to your office, maybe your boss and you ask him "who are you"? So your boss annoyed says I am whoever I am, not your business, I'm in charge here so you take that box and put it there on top. Do your job and don't ask who I am.

So Jesus says "I AM" to say he was with his father before he entered his mother's womb, as it is mentioned in Jeremiah 1:5 which says: "Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, before you were born I set you apart; I appointed you as a prophet to the nations.". So God knew Jeremiah, long before be was given birth. This means he was with God! Like Jesus was with God, like Adam was with God, like Abraham was with God. So Jesus tells them why do you say that, just because Abraham was born before me, that I didn't know him? I was with him! With God! You were with God, I was with God, Hitler was with God. Etc.
 
Last edited:
Ahh so you have had this argument before I see ? well your explanations to both verses do in fact bring them into questionable doubt whether or not he was referring to himself as God and what "gods" really means.

To this I respond: religion is about faith. I think this is common knowledge but what does that mean? In terms of Christianity it means believing that Jesus is the son of God but also is God. This is a hard concept for anyone to understand as here on earth that is obviously against the laws of nature being 3 in 1. Now I'm not saying that my faith in this concept is blind. I have a reason I believe what I do.

Yes Jesus does not specifically say that he is God but for this I say actions are louder than words. He does not say it but his actions in the Bible prove it. The prophecies told in the old testament are truly fulfilled by Jesus. Read the prophecies then look at his life. Also his biggest miracle of all, raising from the dead is another sign. Some people may say that it didn't really happen but to that I say wrong! Hundreds of people saw the stone rolled away from His tomb there were witnesses other than the disciples for that. There is not one verse that proves that Jesus is also God but the bible as a whole.

I am not the best Christian I can't respond to the questions you brought up with more verses as I don't know the bible as well as I should but that does not change the fact that I believe in what I am saying and I want you to believe the same. Everyone should be saved! Sometimes in life you can't find all of the answers and you just have to take a leap of faith. This is especially true in religion. It's not meant to be straight forward otherwise there wouldn't be a need for a leap of faith!
 
Ahh so you have had this argument before I see  well your explanations to both verses do in fact bring them into questionable doubt whether or not he was referring to himself as God and what "gods" really means.

To this I respond: religion is about faith. I think this is common knowledge but what does that mean? In terms of Christianity it means believing that Jesus is the son of God but also is God. This is a hard concept for anyone to understand as here on earth that is obviously against the laws of nature being 3 in 1. Now I'm not saying that my faith in this concept is blind. I have a reason I believe what I do.

Yes Jesus does not specifically say that he is God but for this I say actions are louder than words. He does not say it but his actions in the Bible prove it. The prophecies told in the old testament are truly fulfilled by Jesus.

It's ok not trying to force you out or anything, just talking lol :)

When you say actions are louder than words, Moses split the sea, he turned the whole river into blood, you know, Jesus only managed to turn a few pots of water into wine, without a license might I add :\ and so in terms of actions Moses is far superior in my opinion.

Also his biggest miracle of all, raising from the dead is another sign.

Brother, no such sign is mentioned in the Bible. Jesus said in Mathew, Chapter 16, verse number 4:

"An evil and adulterous generation seeks for a sign, but no sign will be given to it except the sign of Jonah.” So he left them and departed.

And Jesus never fulfills the sign of Jonah! How was Jonah when they threw him overboard? He volunteered! You know, if a person struggles, you might have to break his leg, twist his arm, but the man said I am guilty, throw me! So when they threw him he was? Alive! How was Jonah when he was praying in the belly of the whale he was? Alive! How was Jonah when the fish spit him on the sea shore? Alive! Alive alive alive! A miracle of a miracle of a miracle.

As Jonah was 3 days and 3 nights in the belly of the whale, so shall the son of man be in the heart of the Earth! Then you ask my practicing christian brothers, how was Jesus in the heart of the Earth, they say he was DEAD. He was DEAD. Jonah was alive. So Jesus is a liar! He never fulfills the prophecy. AHH but then Christian brothers say, it's the time factor. It's not a matter of alive or dead, it's about how long he stayed? WELL:

They take Jesus off the cross on Friday evening before the Sabbath because for Jews it was forbidden to hang anyone on the Sabbath. So Friday night, Saturday day, Saturday night, and on Sunday morning, Mary Magdalen sees Jesus disguised as a Gardner! That's 2 nights and 2 days at best. So Jesus put all his eggs in one basket, the sign of Jonah, and never fulfilled it! So he lied! And we know that Jesus, is not a liar, we respect him :)

Why do you believe that? It is mentioned in Luke, Chapter number 10, verse number 36 which says:

"Neither can they die any more: for they are equal unto the angels; and are the children of God, being the children of the resurrection."

In this verse Jesus says that resurrected bodies are spiritualised, a spiritual body cannot die anymore and cannot be given in marriage. He's giving a definition of resurrection. So why was Jesus disguised as a Gardner? He was afraid of the Jews. If he was a spirit, why be afraid. It is further mentioned in John, Chapter 20, verse number 17 which says:

"Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father"

Why touch me not? Because he was in physical pain, all the ordeal he suffered. Resurrected bodies can't feel pain. It is mentioned in Luke, Chapter number 24, verse number 39:

"Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have."

Is he trying to say he's a resurrected body? "it is I, myself". The disciples were afraid because they had heard that Jesus died and Jesus goes to them and proves he didn't. "for a spirit hath not flesh and bones" He's trying to say he's not a resurrected body (spirit) but he is flesh and bones.

The best you can say based on the Bible is that he was: Resuscitated! When someone dies for a short while at the hospital and they bring him back, the person is resuscitated, not resurrected but again, we have no clues that he ever died based on the original manuscript. We know that he was taken off the cross in a hurry because of the Sabbath, and, it is hard for someone to die on the cross in a few hours.
 
First, Jesus did more than just make water into wine but IMO the miracles are of minimal importance in comparison to Him saving us from eternal death and damnation. As for the rest? You ran me to the hills because I have very little to say to that besides that over time translations and interpretations may have skewed the timeline of His death but that's just speculation. Also your interpretations of Jesus hiding from the Jews and not wanting to be touched because of physical pain may be incorrect but I can't be sure of that because I wasn't there when it happened.
 
Putting my religious beliefs aside, I am 100% convinced there must be a creator of some sort. Humans, animals, really anything living is proof to me. Here are the things that convince me of this

1) the fact that we live in an environment perfect for our survival
2) the complexity of the human body and it's processes
3) the spark of life

What causes something to live? A person is just a ratio of certain elements why can we not replicate it scientifically? Answer IMO: Creator
That, my greenlighter friend, is what is known as a slippery slope fallacy.
 
Also your interpretations of Jesus hiding from the Jews and not wanting to be touched because of physical pain may be incorrect but I can't be sure of that because I wasn't there when it happened.

In fact, when Jesus was crucified, not only YOU were not there...NO ONE was there, as it is mentioned in the gospel of Mark Chapter number 14 Verse 50 which says:

"Then everyone deserted him and fled."

When Jesus was on the cross, ALL his disciples fled, at the time he needed them MOST. All gone. So who's the eye witness to the Crucifixion? Some emotionally impaired women who aren't the authors of the Bible?

So Jesus comes out of nowhere and goes like, what's wrong with you guys that you are so scared, it's me, I'm ok. He not yet ascended onto his father. Very clear statement. This emphasizes the difference between what really happened to Jesus and what the Disciples thought.

First, Jesus did more than just make water into wine but IMO the miracles are of minimal importance in comparison to Him saving us from eternal death and damnation.

Yes, Jesus died for your sins. That's why you were baptized, to cleanse the sin of Adam who took the apple. May I ask: Did Adam come ask you before eating the forbidden fruit? He didn't ask me also! So why should we be responsible for someone else's sin. At birth! Is God illogical?

It is the teaching of the Church, not of the Bible. Jesus never mentioned that Adam did this and that and so all are guilty. Adam took the apple, Adam is guilty! Why should Jesus die for your sins? Imagine the boss of a team of robbers and rapists, who comes to them and says "you know you have robbed and raped but here is my son you know, I kill him, and then your sins are cleansed". Does that sound logical?

If tomorrow, I decide to become a rapist, then they catch me and in court I say, no problem, Jesus paid for my sins, it's paid for! But, if you really believe in Jesus you will not sin. Why? It's like Jesus gives you a ticket to a restaurant where you can eat for free, but then says, oh you can't have chicken, you can't have sushi...why? If it's paid for it's paid for! I can sin all I want!
 
Last edited:
No one witnessed the crucifixion but what about the tomb? People saw the tomb closed then they saw it opened. Something that could not have been done by a couple disciples. As for the second part Adam and Eve sinned. In turn their children sinned in turn their children sinned and so on and so forth. We are not punished for Adams sins we are punished for our own. Are you perfect? Do you make mistakes and do wrong sometimes? Since you are human I'm assuming you're answers to those questions will be no and yes. We are responsible for only our own sins not Adams.
 
No one witnessed the crucifixion but what about the tomb? People saw the tomb closed then they saw it opened. Something that could not have been done by a couple disciples. As for the second part Adam and Eve sinned. In turn their children sinned in turn their children sinned and so on and so forth. We are not punished for Adams sins we are punished for our own. Are you perfect? Do you make mistakes and do wrong sometimes? Since you are human I'm assuming you're answers to those questions will be no and yes. We are responsible for only our own sins not Adams.

Ok so the brother is saying that we haven't inherited Adam's sin, we have inherited the TENDENCY to sin. Very good answer. So then, how come, after being baptized, that people still sin? It's a failed protocol! What are they cleansing? If not the sin of Adam. They clearly don't cleanse the tendency to sin because people still sin! Is God illogical, why would God invent such a failed procedure, if not to cleanse the sin of Adam :)

And the other part, Mary Magdalen is the eye witness. She saw Jesus disguised as a Gardner. But, since resurrected bodies are spiritualized, why remove the stone? Why unravel the sheets? Spirits can go through the stone without issues. He removed the stone because he was not a resurrected body, he was a physical body. Who says that? Not Ksa from Bluelight: Jesus, in the Gospel of Luke, Chapter number 10, verse number 36 which says:

"Neither can they die any more: for they are equal unto the angels; and are the children of God, being the children of the resurrection."

Do angels need to remove stone?
 
And it's not illogical that God sent his son to die for us. It's a completely different circumstance than the situation you gave. God loves us and he wanted us to have a second chance. So we wouldn't all have to pay for the evil trend Adam started. He gave us a way to righteousness. He gave us his son who was perfect on earth so that he could take on all the sins of the world. All of the sins before bad after him. He neared the weight of those sins on his shoulders so that we could have a second chance.

And you can have the chicken and the sushi and whatever else you want. Jesus paid for your sins they are forgiven. But taking advantage of that does not make you Christian. If you truly love God and you truly believe Jesus died for you, you don't need to eat everything at the restaurant. You don't want to. Sinning is bad why would I do that when I know it's a directly hateful act towards God. I'm a Christian I love God. I'm not perfect so I know I can't always not sin but I don't go around trying to sin as much as possible because it's "paid for" would you do that to a friend that paid for your diner?
 
It's not a failed protocol. Just because we are baptized that doesn't change the nature of our flesh. Just our soul. Our flesh is still sinful and wants to do sinful things but our soul is cleansed. We are not strong enough to fight the urges of the flesh all of the time so we still sin after baptism. And yes he was still a physical body raised from the dead that's why the stone was moved that's why he had holes in his hands and feet but how would Jesus if he was just a regular guy move a boulder by himself from the inside?
 
Top